New Zaino Paint Cleanser

I don't get this anti-Zaino attitude most people have...



ITs just a product line. If you don't like it don't use it. Why do some feel they have to ensure everybody knows how unhappy they are. They funny part is that most are not unhappy with the results, but unhappy with the lets see now...



1) size of bottle

2) wording on bottle

3) price

4) the facts its Zaino

5) Complicated

6) the fact its Zaino

7) other people swear by it

8) it can't work as well as people say it does

9) you have to prep your car before you use it





Geeze... i've used it and like it and I have used other stuff and liked it. too each his own. I really like the results from many product lines so if you hate it, throw it out and move on..



Mike
 
Only Zaino can cause this much comotion. I too have tried almost everything and spent hundreds of dollars looking for the perfect product-product line for me. I don't detail other people's cars too much any more mostly because of time. My cars are kept up from day one, I don't have some of the problems others do and don't need powerful SRM and abrasives. My one problem was partially corrected by Z5 and then fixed by buying a PC and minimal polishing. I now will probably use this PC maybe once more and it will sit on the shelf with all of my other products I no longer use.

I LMAO when you Zaino haters will try to find anything wrong and look for loop hole like a lawyer . Maybe you won't like the cleanser because it green , my favorite " I have to add those little drops " I used to detail my car every week now with Z8 I just wash then apply Z8 ( rims too ) its always perfect ,no smearing, no excess oil to wipe off , no streaks and the best protection in the industry. I have almost everything and now mabe its time to sell or trade it ( PM me I will tell you what I have ) I was talking to friend and telling how I am trying to use up my other stuff like Souvran, Blackfire and FMJ on my wifes van. He said why not just use Zaino and then you won't have to worry about doing it every week because you will have the best protection on it. Made sense!



If you don't want to use Zaino don't ( more for me ) There are lots of good products out there, Zaino just happens to be the best ! ( end of game )
 
tailwind said:
Bobsealant is exactly the kind of guy I and everybody else should choose to ignore when it comes to this topic.



If you don't want to believe there's any filler-less polishes out there, fine. Whatever makes you happy. Once again, people can make all the excuses for the Zaino line that they want. The rest of us won't look at it through rose-colored glasses, thank you.



You know what's funny? There was nothing inflamatory in my post to you. I simply asked for you to give SPECIFIC EXAMPLES (which you obviously can't - because none exist).



Instead of choosing to answer my questions head on, you'd rather tell people to ignore me. Why? Because I'm right? Because I have practical experience with many polishes, and I can say that not one of them is oil and filler free. Because Zaino has done nothing to mislead the public? Believe me when I tell you, I'm no Zealot. All I want are quality products that do what the manufacturer says. So far Zaino is one of the few companies to live up to that.



Until you can back up your outlandish claims, then it is YOU who should be ignored. :)
 
blkZ28Conv said:
I have. :woot:





true blue blood,

What is really nice about Autopia is that we can agree to disagree and David B allows us to discuss non-sponsor products openly without censorship.



From Autoglym to Zaino. Open passionate discussion is possible. :bow

I am not sure I agree with this. I have been a lurker way before I joined up and started participating and have seen many people banned for exactly that, especially Zaino Zealots.

On a more related topic, I have tried the new Fusion and I LOVE IT, it may not be light years ahead of what I was using but it removes any doubt about compatability and is a top notch product that competes with the best.
 
tailwind said:
Bobsealant is exactly the kind of guy I and everybody else should choose to ignore when it comes to this topic.



If you don't want to believe there's any filler-less polishes out there, fine. Whatever makes you happy. Once again, people can make all the excuses for the Zaino line that they want. The rest of us won't look at it through rose-colored glasses, thank you.



Any why is that? Because he just asked you some tough questions that you don't feel like answering? I read his post a few times and I didn't think he was making any excuses for the Zaino line. I happen to agree with his takes... if you think there are a "ton" of oil-free, filler-less polishes then you are sadly mistaken. And if you want to downplay homerism towards a product or a product line, then you are definitely in the wrong forum as Autopia is biased towards people obsessed with trying to increase their level of shine using various different products.
 
wannafbody said:
Well said-the people who push Zaino the hardest and criticise other product lines have pretty much convinced me to never try it.





Funny thing is I used to think the same way but I'm a Mac user and have always preached to the PC guys that they shouldn't knock the Mac OS without giving it a try. In much the same way that the Mac OS and platform has evolved over the years it looks as though Zaino has done the same. If you didn't like it before you should try it now as it has changed. Don't let someone turn you off to something because of the passion that they have for it for it's YOU that will miss out. That passion comes from having/using something that just works and is easy to make work is what I get from being a Mac user and I see the same in guys/gals that love Zaino. Don't short yourself, give it a shot!
 
Intercooled said:
This past year have spent alot of money and tried many Autopians advises. I have tried many products both polishes and LSPs and I am now now saying "screw it". I'm going back to Zaino pretty much exclusively from now on. Now this is just my opinion and is a decision that I find is best for me and the results that I'm looking for. :)









Amen to that. I've done the same but it's back to Z for me too!
 
The double standard present in this thread is not only amazing but also amusing.



This whole area is subjective, there are no absolutes when it comes to waxes, sealants, polishes and such. Defending one line over another line can only be based on ones own bias, nothing factual. Does Zaino last long? Sure it may but again this depends on who you ask and whos test you read or believe.



Now someone had asked for some claims that are perhaps misleading. Well I have a few and since this thread is about Zaino I'll take them directly from the Zaino website. All companies to some extent stretch the truth, I mean look at just 10 minutes of TV. So I don't care about claims such as "makes your paint shimmer"....."produces a WET show car finish" etc. I see those as hype as well but all of that is again subjective. Making claims that can be truly tested is what catches my eye.



Zaino, the world's leader in paint care technology,



Is this objectively true or is it misleading? How many car manufacturers use Zaino in their production lines? I know of none but I do know they use Valugard, Menzerna, 3M and soon Optimum. Now does this make Zaino a bad product? Of course not but who gave them the title of "world's leader in paint care technology"?



Featuring the world's first (and only) true, self-dissolving,



This can be misleading also because it will not dissolve on its own, obviously. In other words you can't place it on your car,leave it there and have the particles "self-dissolve". One must apply friction in order for the particles to dissolve, correct? So then how does this differ from diminishing abrasives?



In fact Zaino uses "diminishing abrasives" in that very sentance.



Featuring the world's first (and only) true, self-dissolving, fused tri-particulate, diminishing abrasive system



We have gone over this next sentance early but no answers are as of yet suitable.



The ultra-intelligent abrasives gently and carefully knockdown high spots on your car to reveal an extremely smooth



It is hard to believe that this is just clever marketing because it is a claim that goes to describe the make up of the product. "Ultra-intelligent abrasives" though is misleading AND also clever marketing for there is no such a thing as ultra-intelligent abrasives. Abrasives are abrasives, but it sure sounds good! Besides, as in the words of my friend Ron, "I don't want to use a polish that is smarter than me!"



Secondly, a MILD polish can in no way "knock down" high spots, also referred to as "orange peel". If the Zaino people speak of something else other than orange peel when using the word "high spots" I would like to know what they are actually referring to. Wetsanding is the option that most people use when they wish to knock down the high spots on their cars paint and even then it does not knock them all down (if using 2500 or higher grit paper) so how can a mild polish do so? This is also then misleading.



It is possible that the Zaino people are speaking of raised edges on a swirl that catches and reflects light but again I highly doubt it as the wording and phrasing is to foriegn for that meaning. There is no mention of it being used to knock down high spots on "exotic paints only" or that only "soft paints" can benefit from this but rather it states:



It's perfect for domestic cars, European cars and imports. So whether you're driving a super-exotic performance car or just running the kids around town,



Now, please remember that I HAVE used Zaino, I have Zaino at my disposal to use again, I also acknowledge that it is a nice system, produces great results but to claim that there is nothing misleading is to then read with blinders on.



Zaino people are some of the most ill-informed detailers I have ever come across. Do you all know why? Because they swallow it all hook, line and sinker! They are sold that it and it alone is the best car care system in the universe. If Zaino claims it then it is as if God Himself hath spoken. Now, for the people who adhere to Zaino, good. Keep using it, keep buying it if it works for you but don't get so defensive if some people don't like it or even bash it, it's only wax people! I have seen people banned and/or flamed on other sites because they dont use Zaino and THIS is what makes people dislike the product. The Zaino-Nazi's.



For those who bash Zaino based on the Zaino fans, perhaps you should first try it and then speak from experience. It is not ignorant to dislike something without trying it for I don't need to roll around in poison ivy to know I won't like it BUT since I never have I can't speak from experience, understand?



Anthony
 
Interesting post Anthony.



I'm a long time Zaino user, always having Zaino products on at least one of my vehicles. Not just Z2, but all the other items that make it a complete line.



The marketing is just too "As Seen on TV" and the following is down right fanatical! But that's the case with many product lines. Perhaps that's why Zaino threads are so hot all the time.Not a big deal though....I continue to evaluate the products objectively and have no problem pointing out the negative aspects.



- J
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Is this objectively true or is it misleading? How many car manufacturers use Zaino in their production lines? I know of none but I do know they use Valugard, Menzerna, 3M and soon Optimum. Now does this make Zaino a bad product? Of course not but who gave them the title of "world's leader in paint care technology"?



Zaino doesn’t say that they’re the leading supplier for the OEM market. They claim to be the leader in paint care technology. You’re talking about a totally different market place. Quite honestly, when it comes to paint sealants, I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to think Z-2Pro along with ZFX is the most technologically advanced sealant on the market today. I wasn’t mislead at all by this statement because the first thing that popped into my head wasn’t the OEM market. If YOU were mislead, then I guess trying to look at this statement objectively must have been the wrong approach.



Anthony Orosco said:
This can be misleading also because it will not dissolve on its own, obviously. In other words you can't place it on your car,leave it there and have the particles "self-dissolve". One must apply friction in order for the particles to dissolve, correct? So then how does this differ from diminishing abrasives?



Uh, yeah Anthony…obviously the abrasives in this product aren’t going to “self-dissolveâ€�. I seriously hope you don’t think people are going to be mislead by that. But then again, there are some desperately innocent souls out there. “Gee, I applied Souveran to my car and I thought there was going to be a shimmering pool of water on my black car. When I went to touch it, lo and behold…my finger didn’t get wet!â€�. Sure, Sal made an embellishment of how well his abrasives diminish, but speaking as someone who’s been using this product for quite some time now, this product’s abrasives are very user-friendly and diminish very well...significantly better than anything else I've used either by rotary, PC and also by hand while leaving very little fillers behind. Did you think Sal wanted his users to think the abrasives utilized borg nano-technology to intelligently seek out surface imperfections and level them out? :D



Anthony Orosco said:
It is hard to believe that this is just clever marketing because it is a claim that goes to describe the make up of the product. "Ultra-intelligent abrasives" though is misleading AND also clever marketing for there is no such a thing as ultra-intelligent abrasives. Abrasives are abrasives, but it sure sounds good! Besides, as in the words of my friend Ron, "I don't want to use a polish that is smarter than me!"



Secondly, a MILD polish can in no way "knock down" high spots, also referred to as "orange peel". If the Zaino people speak of something else other than orange peel when using the word "high spots" I would like to know what they are actually referring to. Wetsanding is the option that most people use when they wish to knock down the high spots on their cars paint and even then it does not knock them all down (if using 2500 or higher grit paper) so how can a mild polish do so? This is also then misleading.



It is possible that the Zaino people are speaking of raised edges on a swirl that catches and reflects light but again I highly doubt it as the wording and phrasing is to foriegn for that meaning. There is no mention of it being used to knock down high spots on "exotic paints only" or that only "soft paints" can benefit from this but rather it states:



No, Sal isn’t referring to orange peel. If he was, then he wouldn’t follow up the ‘high-spots’ comments with “Swirl marks and other blemishes will literally disappear before your eyes, and they'll stay away�. (haha, another marketing slant that I’m sure tickles your fancy). I’ve read and enjoyed your posts in the past anthony and consider you a very reasonable person. I’m surprised that you would take such a negative angle on Sal’s “high-comment� remarks.



Anthony Orosco said:
Now, please remember that I HAVE used Zaino, I have Zaino at my disposal to use again, I also acknowledge that it is a nice system, produces great results but to claim that there is nothing misleading is to then read with blinders on.



Sorry Anthony but I disagree. I don’t think Zaino’s marketing is any more misleading than a whole lot of other consumer level products. I see that you have once again reminded us of your immunity from being labeled Zaino-basher due to the fact that you’ve used this product. I guess that's a lot better than people who bash the product that haven’t even used it, but your ‘Hey, I’ve used the stuff and it’s pretty good, but …..#$&*#â€� routine is getting old.



Anthony Orosco said:
Zaino people are some of the most ill-informed detailers I have ever come across. Do you all know why? Because they swallow it all hook, line and sinker! They are sold that it and it alone is the best car care system in the universe.



Well, thank you very much for the nice compliment. Congratulations!! you just insulted a good portion of the very experienced Autopian population here. Nice work!



Anthony Orosco said:
If Zaino claims it then it is as if God Himself hath spoken.



Ahh, it seems that now we are going to start our serious discussion of misleading comments.



Anthony Orosco said:
Now, for the people who adhere to Zaino, good. Keep using it, keep buying it if it works for you but don't get so defensive if some people don't like it or even bash it, it's only wax people! I have seen people banned and/or flamed on other sites because they dont use Zaino and THIS is what makes people dislike the product. The Zaino-Nazi's.



Pot, meet kettle. Guess who was the first person in this thread to start ridiculing this product? Here’s a hint so I don’t mislead you. It was YOU. You can’t pin the direction of this thread on the so called Z-Nazi’s (nice choice of words there, btw). The discussions just sort of escalated into something it didn’t have to be because someone (again, I’m referring to you) decided to ridicule Sal’s choice of words in describing his new product.



If folks over at other forums act like Zaino-Nazis or people get banned for not using Zaino, perhaps you should take your Zaino-preachings over at those forums. Sorry, but IMO, DavidB & the mods do a pretty good job of keeping Zaino-zealot like behavior in check here in Autopia.
 
Sorry, but IMO, DavidB & the mods do a pretty good job of keeping Zaino-zealot like behavior in check here in Autopia.





Yes, we're watching for zealot like behavior and personal attacks. Constructive criticism is fine and welcomed, we just ask everyone to remember to keep things civil.
 
Intermezzo,



Thanks for the reply.



Notice in my thread that I am speaking from experience and my choice not to use Zaino is not based on results, although I do not care for the sterile look it can give, I base my choice on time. Time is money.



I also sought to NOT lump all Zaino users into the same category but rather it is the fringe zealots, in fact on both sides, that cause the problems. I have never claimed that Davidb and the moderators are not doing their job nor have I ever had any problems here with Zaino users here on Autopia.



It may be just me but your reply to me is done with a tone of "attack", ridicule perhaps. This is what I am speaking of.



Thanks,

Anthony
 
I am another individual who is mystified by the heat of every Z thread on Autopia. You don't see this kind of fervour in Klasse threads, and Klasse SG is one of the most difficult products to learn to use properly, that I have tried. But once I learned the properly application, it was a breeze and I now wholehearted endorse it to more experienced users.



I am continually tempted to try Z, but every time I see one of these threads, I think to myself, gee, is a car wax really a life or death situation? :wall
 
Over 4000 hits, As I said before no product Generates this type of interest or excitment. I have tons of prodcuts, and at one time or another I thought were the best.

Zaino just happens to be the best I ever used IMO.
 
2wheelsx2 said:
I am another individual who is mystified by the heat of every Z thread on Autopia. You don't see this kind of fervour in Klasse threads, and Klasse SG is one of the most difficult products to learn to use properly, that I have tried. But once I learned the properly application, it was a breeze and I now wholehearted endorse it to more experienced users.



I am continually tempted to try Z, but every time I see one of these threads, I think to myself, gee, is a car wax really a life or death situation? :wall



lol,,,I would try it as it may be something you really like. It is not a difficult system to use but the first time it may be time consuming. Which is why I don't use it on a regular basis.



Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Intermezzo,



Thanks for the reply.



Notice in my thread that I am speaking from experience and my choice not to use Zaino is not based on results, although I do not care for the sterile look it can give, I base my choice on time. Time is money.



I also sought to NOT lump all Zaino users into the same category but rather it is the fringe zealots, in fact on both sides, that cause the problems. I have never claimed that Davidb and the moderators are not doing their job nor have I ever had any problems here with Zaino users here on Autopia.



It may be just me but your reply to me is done with a tone of "attack", ridicule perhaps. This is what I am speaking of.



Thanks,

Anthony



No problem. If you felt like I was attacking you, then I apologize. No attack intended...just a bit of sarcasm. I just felt as if Sal was being ridiculed unnecessarily. You know as well as I do how volatile it can be to ridicule someone on a public forum....



I know you don't use Zaino. I've read your posts in other forums and you've made your disagreements with Sal's opinions quite plain. Also, I wouldn't expect most professional detailer to use it anyway as the product is geared towards the enthusiast market.



As for your opinion about DavidB and the mods, I'm glad you feel that way. However my original point was in addressing your complaints about Zaino-Nazi/zealots in other forums. You were complaining so much about Zaino-zealot behavior in OTHER forums, I just thought I'd remind you that zealot behavior isn't so bad here and that you should try to pass your message along in these other forums. That's all.



No hard feelings...
 
Intermezzo,



I understand fully how explosive topics can be, not only topics on waxes but on all areas where people disagree.



I am a Christian apologist and studied theology, world religion and cults for years and also debated for years so I know just how heated and emotional things can get. An apology is not really needed because I know you are a nice guy that I highly respect, but apology accepted, thank you.



Please understand that I have nothing against Zaino itself, heck there was a time when I tried to get Irene to carry it at TOL believe it or not! I also do not dislike Sal, heck I admire the guy cause he pretty much created a revolution and I know it is not Sal that causes this fervor but a minority of Zaino users are just real pinheads cause it. I know that the majority of Zaino users do NOT see Sal as godlike but the fringe people sure do. I only sought to bring some balance here, perhaps I could of done a better job so my apologies for that.



I may even get some of the new polish to try out and this way I can speak from experience regarding it and the claims made about it.



Thank you,

Anthony
 
Intermezzo said:
No hard feelings...



And level-headedness reigns once again. Now I know why I returned back to Autopia after almost dumping it a few months ago.



Back on topic: for anyone that's d ZPC, have you used it with different pads? It is it like OCP (okay patrick, the BIG O :D) in that it can be very effective and provide different cut levels depending on the pad you use? Or is really meant to be used only with a light cut pad (i.e. LC white. etc...)?
 
Anthony - I'm just curious if you've used Z2 Pro, Z8, or Z-PC?



I think all of your "nazi" and "other forums" talk should stay in "other" forums if it's not the case here. Seems to be stirring the pot for no good reason.
 
Intercooled said:
This past year have spent alot of money and tried many Autopians advises. I have tried many products both polishes and LSPs and I am now now saying "screw it". I'm going back to Zaino pretty much exclusively from now on. Now this is just my opinion and is a decision that I find is best for me and the results that I'm looking for. :)



Totally agree.



It is a shame that every Zaino post ends up a discussion defending the Zaino system and not the product or technique being discussed. There seems to be no such thing as a casual Zaino thread.

It's a good thing that every time a QEW thread is posted the "Hose and Bucket only choir" doesn't chime to add disharmony by pointing out the evils of not doing it their way and that QEW users are misinformed and are just blind to the swirls they are producing. :rolleyes:



:idea Yes, I once was lost (by choice and desired to test other LSP regimens), but now I have found the system (Zaino) that meets my very discriminating taste. This is not to state that whatever you use is inferior, but I do hope your passion for what you use is as passionate as many Zaino users.

Detailing is a passion and we will have passionate discussions. Let's keep it detailing oriented and not a personal bias against a product, company, technique, poster or website.



I use Zaino, along with many other fine products, and swear by it performance and value to me.

Please do not hate me (us) for that. :bigups
 
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