New Zaino Paint Cleanser

Not to start a debate but you are using ZPC because it dosn't have fillers than you Z5 that contains fillers. So what is the big deal about not using a polish without fillers? I also try to avoid polishes with fillers but I try not to use anything that has fillers in a LSP either.
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For me, the ideas behind not having fillers in a polish/SMR are:



1. You can't really tell when you've removed all the swirls if the polish is filling them in. (Actually you can by wiping w/isopropanol or some other solvent, but who wants to be doing that continuously during polishing?)

2. Fillers tend to interfere with bonding of your LSP (esp. Zaino)



Fillers in a LSP are not necessarily a bad thing, and I personally don't care if a LSP contains them or not as long as it's durable and looks good.
 
Agree with Dave. Don't mind fillers in the LSP so much, but unfortunately, I don't think Z5 does a whole lot of filling compared to a glaze. Guess it's not supposed to really, as it's a different type of product.



- J
 
if a product doesn't have oils and is simply water and abrasives won't it cause micromarring? unless maybe it has a different carrier base?
 
wannafbody said:
if a product doesn't have oils and is simply water and abrasives won't it cause micromarring? unless maybe it has a different carrier base?
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Good point.....And that was my delema earlier in this thread.(Or maybe it was I thread i started last week.) I seemed to get quite a bit of marring from Zcp. I even called Sal about it. He suggested a quick test section of Z2Pro over the marred area. He asked me if that "evened it out". And it did, the marring was gone. Now with Z2Pro not containing any oils or fillers, how did the Z2Pro cover over the marring? Being so optically pefect you would think that the marring be more visible. Alls I can say is after Zcping the whole car, and seeing marring (under bright lighting, black paint.) The Z5 covered and hid everything. I then went on to the Z2Pro. My conclusion was that the ZCP with no fillers or oils and had brought the surface of the clear to such a squeeky clean finish that had not been achieved before. What i saw was all the marring, marks and imperfections that any clear would have if not filled by anything. I am thinking that perhaps all the products I have used in the past were giving me some amount of false represntation of what the surface realy looked like.

These are of course just my opinions and observations. :nixweiss
 
DennisH said:
I probably wrong but I was told that the oil was in polishes to slow down the diminishing of the abrasaves which allows them enough time to do there work. If the abrasaves diminishes to quickly isn't that a bad thing not good thing. Seems that having bad swirls you would want it to diminish more slowly then if you had minor swirls. Also I was told that oil help prevent marring of the surface -- true of false.
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Thats a very good point. Maybe if ZCP had oil it would be even better...But then it wouldn't be compatible with its system.

But zcp does seem to diminish quickly, its a new product and we need to experiment, maybe a slower PC speed is called for. :idea This rises my interest in perhaps trying a slower speed next time.
 
Intercooled said:
My conclusion was that the ZCP with no fillers or oils and had brought the surface of the clear to such a squeeky clean finish that had not been achieved before. What i saw was all the marring, marks and imperfections that any clear would have if not filled by anything. I am thinking that perhaps all the products I have used in the past were giving me some amount of false represntation of what the surface realy looked like.

These are of course just my opinions and observations. :nixweiss
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A flawless finish is a flawless finish and it doesn't take ZPC to get it. If you saw marring then there was marring. The question is how did the LSP hide it?
 
Not a chemist but...



I don't necessarily buy that ZCP induces micro-marring because it lacks oils. Is ZPC radically different from other water based polishes? Aren't the abrasive supposed to diminish so that that any marring is not visible to the naked eye?



Could the marring have come from the pad?



When I rub PO85RD between my fingers, it feels surprisingly gritty. Moreso than products that are much more abrasive. Yet it doesn't leave visible micromarring and basically looks the same after an alcohol wipedown. The abrasives diminish.



Hearing such odd things about this product, I really need to test it out!



Also, is Zaino Z2 being optically perfect more of amarketing statement?



- J
 
SpoiledMan said:
A flawless finish is a flawless finish and it doesn't take ZPC to get it. If you saw marring then there was marring. The question is how did the LSP hide it?
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Again, I have never used fusion but have used others polishes. I used PB 2.5 for the first time and after reading this thread I wasn’t sure if there was oil or fillers on the surface or just really shiny surface so I did a 3M adhesive/wax remover wipe down to make sure. There didn’t seem to be any difference after the wipe down under both sun, florescent or shop lights. I agree -- a flawless finish is just that a flawless finish.
 
hm... Z-PC has been getting really poor review in terms of swirl removal when using with a PC. I'm going to be ordering the zaino kit soon, and I still need a few more comments on whether or not I should get it. I already have SSR 2.5 and SSR 1, I have AIO as well, but don't want to deal with bonding issues. what do you guys think?
 
ZPC is a finishing polish, so use either SSR2.5 or DACP or whatever, then ZPC on vehicles that are in rough shape.
 
mataku said:
hm... Z-PC has been getting really poor review in terms of swirl removal when using with a PC. I'm going to be ordering the zaino kit soon, and I still need a few more comments on whether or not I should get it. I already have SSR 2.5 and SSR 1, I have AIO as well, but don't want to deal with bonding issues. what do you guys think?
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When polishing one's vehicle one should use the protocol (products and technique) that has been producing your best results. ZPC was not created as a one-step swirl removing/cleanser cure-all product, but a adjunct to a Zaino user's polishing arsenal. After one reaches the point of almost real-world flawless finish, a product like Z-PC has 3 functions:



1/Z-PC eliminates the guess work about what is compatible with Zaino protectants and eliminate those final repairable surface blemishes.



2/ Z-PC sets the stage for maximal bonding of Zaino protectants without a Dawn or Prepsol-like pre-cleaning.



3/To maintain a real-world flawless finish via a cleansing step (Z-PC) between major yearly or bi-yearly polishing sessions. Similiarly to how many use GEPC, AIO, VM. etc.



Yes, Zaino Fusion PC is a worthwhile addition to your polishing arsenal IMHO. :xyxthumbs
 
This is a GREAT question. I too would like to know the answer...



Anyone?



Can someone PLEASE explain what each of these do?
 
Both the P21S GEPC and Sonus Paint Cleanser are Pre-wax polishes that are very mild. Kind of like Klasse AIO, but with no protection. ZPC is an abrasive polish and has a slightly different use.



P21S GEPC is sort of a glaze/polish. It is very mildly abrasive and has some slight cleaning ability, but leaves behind some nice oils in preparation for topping with something like P21S carnauba wax. Can be used monthly, as it is very mild, for maintenance and cleanup. If you are using carnauba, it's quite nice.



Sonus Paint Cleanser is similar, probably has some very mild abrasives as well, but I'm not sure if it leaves behind any oils like GEPC. I'd say it has the same use as GEPC, but I haven't used it, so I don't know if it has more abrasive. David's website claims it can clear up mild swirl marks, something that GEPC has not done for me.



Zaino ZPC is an abrasive polish intended to remove swirl marks and other defects. It has the potential to be far more abrasive, but finishes to a high gloss. It's something to use for more major details. Abrasive level can be tailored by application method (hand vs machine, speed, pad type). If you used it with a finishing pad, you could might be able to use it purely as a cleanser, to take as much cut out as possible.



So really, ZPC is not really not the same as GEPC or Sonus Paint Cleanser. Different product for a slightly different application, but there is some overlap depending on your usage.



- J
 
I have both polishes (Z-PC and PO85RD). IMO, there is NO way that ZPC will leave a finish as smooth as PO85RD.



The truck I use PO85RD on is my own 2005, black Ford F-150.



I like Zaino, sometimes use Zaino, but if anyone were to get down with a halogen light, very close to the paint, PO85RD is untouchable.



BTW, neither of the products contain fillers.
 
not in my opinion. keep in mind that my truck is black and the paint is pretty soft.



i'm sure some others will chime in.



On silver, you would be able to get away with the cheaper FPII.
 
FPII still leaves a very smooth, defect free finish (assuming no larger imperfections), but it may not burnish to as high a gloss as PO85RD. I think the differences have been exaggerated a bit on this board, but there does seem to be some improvement with PO85RD.



BTW, PO85RD isn't all that expensive, it's just the size. I think Menzerna USA sells bottles for < $40 (32.oz). It's CMA that is over charging at $50.



- J
 
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