What product provides the best protection.....

[imported_Bence]

Legacy, I was talking about one layer.



wfedwar, there are countless covalent silane coatings. Japanese, German, Korean and of course, American. Brands? Oh well: Opti Coat, JGlaze, gTechniq C1, G'zox real glass coat, Matrix Micro, Sonax Nano, Aquartz, KeePre Diamond, Swedecoat, Res Bona ALF, Nanolex, etc, etc.



The accent is on a semi permanent, glasslike layer, aka silicon(silicium)-dioxide. NOT siliconE! In layman's terms, when you melt quartz sand, it becomes glass. The end result is very similar here.



A coating does not rely on silicone oils. Yes silicone oils can be great, but they can be enemy as well. They repel water but attract oil and dirt. A coating is entirely different. As it sets, it becomes virtually as hard as glass - on the MOHS scale between 6-7 (some even specify 9, but this may be a bit optimistic).



As you can see here in the picture where I'm holding pieces of dried Aquartz, a coating can build very heavy layers; up to the mm/cm range. Of course as we apply them, they should be removed, so we end up with a significantly thinner coat, but even this way, a coating adds a measurable thickness to the entire film build. The coating is totally clear with the correct layer thicknesses, but naturally it gets more opaque as the thickness grows. The film of a coating is hard, flexible to a point and polishable. No other LSP comes close to their thickness and physical protection.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

A couple of years without waterspots, bird bombs, and acid rain spots, and I'd say you have a winner.

Looks like I have a winner in FK1 #1000.:getdown:getdown:getdown

 

[superchargedg]

Bilt-hamber auto balm.....but not many people know about it in the USA.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

wfedwar, there are countless covalent silane coatings. Japanese, German, Korean and of course, American. Brands? Oh well: Opti Coat, JGlaze, gTechniq C1, G'zox real glass coat, Matrix Micro, Sonax Nano, Aquartz, KeePre Diamond, Swedecoat, Res Bona ALF, Nanolex, etc, etc.



The accent is on a semi permanent, glasslike layer, aka silicon(silicium)-dioxide. NOT siliconE! In layman's terms, when you melt quartz sand, it becomes glass. The end result is very similar here.



A coating does not rely on silicone oils. Yes silicone oils can be great, but they can be enemy as well. They repel water but attract oil and dirt. A coating is entirely different. As it sets, it becomes virtually as hard as glass - on the MOHS scale between 6-7 (some even specify 9, but this may be a bit optimistic).



As you can see here in the picture where I'm holding pieces of dried Aquartz, a coating can build very heavy layers; up to the mm/cm range. Of course as we apply them, they should be removed, so we end up with a significantly thinner coat, but even this way, a coating adds a measurable thickness to the entire film build. The coating is totally clear with the correct layer thicknesses, but naturally it gets more opaque as the thickness grows. The film of a coating is hard, flexible to a point and polishable. No other LSP comes close to their thickness and physical protection.

Great info.



Would you say that these coatings could be applied by "non professionals"? I.e., do you think Opti-Coat will be made available to the general public, or are the risks of really screwing up paint too high?

 

[wfedwar]

Thanks for the information, Bence. I have heard of SiO2-based sealants, but never knew of any brand names. At the same time, I have heard of many of the tradenames you mentioned, just didn't know they were SiO2-based sealants. These seem to be much more popular in Europe and Asia, and I don't know of anyone selling them here in the US. Thanks for the information.

 

[imported_Bence]

Rob, I dunno the general availability because it varies greatly from place to place.



For example, the Sonax is readily available here, is dirt cheap (around $25/50ml), and no one asks a question. In Sweden, you have to be a professional to get it, so I had to send a bottle to porta. He has tried a couple of coatings, so he has a good experience in this field.



More advanced coatings like Opti Coat are more versatile, because they can be applied onto different surfaces (ext/int).



They can be applied very easy IMO/IME, so a non-pro with a prosumer background and/or good general detailing experience can do the coating without any problems. If you screw up, take out a compound and abrade it away.



Regarding the pics, in this case I poured a little more activator than the recommended amount (the 1st gen Aquartz was a 2-component system). The bubbling started as usual, but the coating hardened in just 2-3 minutes, while still bubbling, and produced this nice little splash o'coat, which is 6.05 mm thick at its thickest point.



With a good HVLP system you can spray them also very evenly, but obviously, this method uses more material.



wfedwar, in the States, I'd definitely recommend the Optimum product, but Soft99's G'zox glass coating is available there (glazcoat.com). I'm sure that other systems can be imported relatively easily too.

 

[mafpo]

I talked to Autogeek today to complain about the Wolfgang. The tech thinks that I haven't left the product on the car long enough before I buff it off.



So, this weekend - I'll start over, use the cleaner, and then apply the sealant - leave it on for 45 min to 1 hour and then buff.



We'll see.



Judging from all of the suggestions, this is like candy for me - all of these new products to play with.



As for the two year plus suggestion (a good one), I have been using Zymol for nineteen years, and it does a great job. However, you do have to reapply often.

It's also easy to use - apply and take it off wet. If you apply it and let it dry, it's the hardest stuff to buff off (I learned this the hard way).

 

[jbnery6465]

So I've been getting alot of help from tdekany on which products offer the best durability, protection, and gloss/slick factor (and in this order) for our brand new White and Ice Silver Audi's. I narrowed it down but have a few final questions which would determine which route I take and would like some additional feedback from you guys if possible.



This is from my thread on another forum:



...assuming my paint correction is completed using Meg 105/205 combo and an IPA wipedown...



Option 1

Base: ??

Sealant: Zaino Z2 Pro

'Beauty' Wax: P21S 100% Carnauba or Collinite #845

QD: Z8 Finale



If my paint is fully prepped, can i use a paintwork lotion instead of the ZAIO as a base? Or can I use the Z2 Pro with ZFX without a base? I like the reviews I've read of using P21S 100% on top of Z2, but will also take your suggestion of Z8 and use it within my weekly wash.



Option 2

Base: P21S or Pinnacle Paintwork Cleanser Lotion

Sealant: FK1 1000p

'Beauty' Wax: P21S 100% Carnauba or Collinite #845

QD: Z8 Finale



Haven't see much review on the FK1 Pink Wax so I might stick with the P21S or Collinite. Is there any additional considerations for the base to help the FK1?



So my last main concern is choosing either a cleansing lotion or an AIO for the base coat prior to the sealant. Does one work better than the other in providing better durability and protection, again assuming that paint is brand new and fully prepped.



you guys rock on this forum ... I've been introduced to more options than before!

 

[Cleaning Fool]

So I've been getting alot of help from tdekany on which products offer the best durability, protection, and gloss/slick factor (and in this order) for our brand new White and Ice Silver Audi's. I narrowed it down but have a few final questions which would determine which route I take and would like some additional feedback from you guys if possible.



This is from my thread on another forum:



...assuming my paint correction is completed using Meg 105/205 combo and an IPA wipedown...



Option 1

Base: ??

Sealant: Zaino Z2 Pro

'Beauty' Wax: P21S 100% Carnauba or Collinite #845

QD: Z8 Finale



If my paint is fully prepped, can i use a paintwork lotion instead of the ZAIO as a base? Or can I use the Z2 Pro with ZFX without a base? I like the reviews I've read of using P21S 100% on top of Z2, but will also take your suggestion of Z8 and use it within my weekly wash.



Option 2

Base: P21S or Pinnacle Paintwork Cleanser Lotion

Sealant: FK1 1000p

'Beauty' Wax: P21S 100% Carnauba or Collinite #845

QD: Z8 Finale



Haven't see much review on the FK1 Pink Wax so I might stick with the P21S or Collinite. Is there any additional considerations for the base to help the FK1?



So my last main concern is choosing either a cleansing lotion or an AIO for the base coat prior to the sealant. Does one work better than the other in providing better durability and protection, again assuming that paint is brand new and fully prepped.



you guys rock on this forum ... I've been introduced to more options than before!

If you have done 105/205, you can go straight to Z2 Pro or 1000P. You mention 845 , well I would not use 845 over 1000P or Z2. 845 says wax on the label but reality is it is a sealant. So there is no point in putting a sealant on top of another sealant, understand my point? You have 3 choices as a sealant, 1000P, Z2 or 845, then pick a wax if you want to top any of those 3. You don't need a cleansing lotion or an AIO if you have already done 105/205. Keep it simple.

 

[imported_Bence]

What about a full FK route?



Base: 215 (optional after the 105/205, or you can use it as a standalone product if your paint doesn't require full correction)

Sealant: 1000P

Topper: Pink and/or 425



This is more than enough.

 

[Accumulator]

...assuming my paint correction is completed using Meg 105/205 combo and an IPA wipedown...

Keep the M105/M205 off of the silvery/aluminum exterior trim. I wouldn't even get ZAIO on it. Very fragile finish on those pieces.

Option 1

Base: ??

Sealant: Zaino Z2 Pro

'Beauty' Wax: P21S 100% Carnauba or Collinite #845

QD: Z8 Finale



If my paint is fully prepped, can i use a paintwork lotion instead of the ZAIO as a base?

While I am an fellow Audi nut, I'm not much of a Zaino user. BUT I wouldn't use something like the Pinnacle PCL in place of the ZAIO.



PCL (which I do like, though I preferred the earlier, more aggressive version), is a sorta glaze-like product that is about the last thing I'd expect to work well as a base for Z2.



ZAIO, OTOH, works great as a base for all sorts of LSPs, so I'd go with that in your case.



I wonder if Z2 will offer sufficient protection against evnironmental contamination. Some people have complained that while they love Zaino, it didn't protect as well as they'd expected. Stains on white and silver can be a huge PIA.



Which reminds me, I always (and that's *ALWAYS*) do a full decontamination of new white/silver vehicles, even if I take delivery "in the bag". Ferrous contamination can lead to rust-blooms, and I do better with decon. systems than I do with clay and/or other approaches. Just something to consider.

Or can I use the Z2 Pro with ZFX without a base? I like the reviews I've read of using P21S 100% on top of Z2, but will also take your suggestion of Z8 and use it within my weekly wash.

I don't know enough about Z2 to answer the first part of that, but regarding topping sealants with wax, I don't do that as it precludes adding more sealant later. I choose between waxes and sealants and just go with one or the other (the choice depending on a lot of different things).

Option 2

Base: P21S or Pinnacle Paintwork Cleanser Lotion

Sealant: FK1 1000p

'Beauty' Wax: P21S 100% Carnauba or Collinite #845

QD: Z8 Finale



Haven't see much review on the FK1 Pink Wax so I might stick with the P21S or Collinite. Is there any additional considerations for the base to help the FK1?

Same sort of thing...PCL doesn't strike me as the best product to use before FK1000P. BUT, it might work OK as somebody here has used FK1000P over P21sGEPC.



BUT, I'd much reather use ZAIO/KAIO/etc. before FK1000P (which is how I do it). And again, I wouldn't/don't top the FK1000P. But if you want to, I'd top it with FK's Pink Wax.



But seriously, on a white/silver Audi, I wouldn't mix waxes and sealants. I have one silver Audi with wax on it, and another with a sealant, and while they're *very* slightly different looks, both are just fine. Topping a sealant with a wax on white would be a waste IMO, and I've used both on various white paints.

So my last main concern is choosing either a cleansing lotion or an AIO for the base coat prior to the sealant. Does one work better than the other in providing better durability and protection, again assuming that paint is brand new and fully prepped.

It's pretty much just a matter of what each product leaves behind; the abrasives shouldn't be aggressive enough to matter (though the ones in ZAIO are a bit too much for black exterior plastic on Audis IME).



Products like Pinnacle PCL/P21sGEPC leaves oily, glaze-like stuff behind whereas AIOs leave "cleaner/dryer", more sealant-friendly stuff behind.

... I've been introduced to more options than before!

Heh heh, maybe too many options



You can keep Audis looking super with very simple, basic approaches. I'm tempted to suggest just trying ZAIO topped with [any one LSP] and concentrating all your efforts (intellectual and physical) on getting your wash technique sorted out just right.

 

[jbnery6465]

Wow, thanks you guys this is very helpful.



When the Audi's are delivered (coming from factory), I'm going to ask the dealer to not detail it in any way.



Several things for sure then is that I'll end up getting the ZAIO or KAIO, don't use Collinite as a wax, and will most likely use FK1 1000 for sealant/protection since it seems to have more durability/protection than Z2-Pro.



For brand new cars, would it be beneficial to hit it with a something like Menzerna 106FA or 85RD?Just to give the paint a little more shine/gloss, then hit it with the AIO/FK1. Or would the AIO take care of that? I'm pretty sure the swirls will be bare minimal once I unwrap the cars.



Would it still be okay to use Z8 on top of the FK1 when I do my weekly wash?



I haven't read too many reviews on the entire FK lineup so I'm trying to base things off of reviews and personal suggestions from consumers and professionals.



Again thanks and sorry for the naive questions, I just want to do things right the first time.

 

[Accumulator]

When the Audi's are delivered (coming from factory), I'm going to ask the dealer to not detail it in any way.

That's the way to do it :xyxthumbs Ask for them to be presented to you "in the bag/wrapper". Yeah, it can be done that way so don't let 'em BS you

Several things for sure then is that I'll end up getting the ZAIO or KAIO, don't use Collinite as a wax, and will most likely use FK1 1000 for sealant/protection since it seems to have more durability/protection than Z2-Pro.

That sounds like a good plan to me. Either the Z or K AIO oughta work great, I might lean towards the KAIO just because you can safely use it on more of the exterior finishes/surfaces on Audis (e.g., the black plastic pieces in the grilles, which some people might assume need a dressing instead).

For brand new cars, would it be beneficial to hit it with a something like Menzerna 106FA or 85RD?Just to give the paint a little more shine/gloss, then hit it with the AIO/FK1. Or would the AIO take care of that? I'm pretty sure the swirls will be bare minimal once I unwrap the cars.

*I* would do the Menzerna, but I'm nutty I'd also go into the tight spots in the doorjambs/etc. and polish those a little as I've always been able to slick them up a bit compared to the factory finish (which not only makes 'em look better, but helps them shed dirt and stay clean).



You might want to just stick with the AIO though, not like everybody has to go overboard to be happy.

Would it still be okay to use Z8 on top of the FK1 when I do my weekly wash?

Sorry, beats me :nixweiss I wouldn't be surprised if it works fine.

I haven't read too many reviews on the entire FK lineup so I'm trying to base things off of reviews and personal suggestions from consumers and professionals.

As far as the AIO/LSP goes, I'd just stick with the KAIO (or ZAIO) topped with the FK1000P. But you might pick up some FK425. Not saying it's better than Z8, but I do like using FK425.

Again thanks and sorry for the naive questions, I just want to do things right the first time.

Hey, not naive at all IMO. If anything, it sounds like you're doing a lot of research, so much that you are/were bordering on overcomplicating it.

 

[jbnery6465]

Could I replace the M205 with the Menzerna and still get the same results for paint correction? If so I might be willing to shell out a little more extra for the Menzerna.



Anyone know how does Blackfire Wet Diamond compare to Z2 Pro and FK1? Ihave several black cars that need correction and heard this is great on dark cars. How does it fare with light colored cars?



I feel like I'm getting closer to my selection, either way if it doesn't work then I can just pick up other products along the way.



Accumulator, I don't mind going through all the hassle because I love cars. I'm just starting to get serious with protecting and detailing them the best in industry products (but with a budget of course )

 

[Accumulator]

Could I replace the M205 with the Menzerna and still get the same results for paint correction? If so I might be willing to shell out a little more extra for the Menzerna...

Not sure as I haven't used the Menzerna for real correction (very limited experience with it period, but it has worked well for me for final burnishing). You shouldn't need much (if any) correction any how.

..Accumulator, I don't mind going through all the hassle because I love cars. I'm just starting to get serious with protecting and detailing them the best in industry products (but with a budget of course )

That's the right attitude :xyxthumbs



Oh, and I wouldn't worry much about products being aimed at light/dark colors. Most anything will look nice on white/silver IME, even products that are generally considered best for black paint.

 

[wfedwar]

Keep it simple. After finishing with M205, go straight to your sealant or wax. If that happens to be a system (e.g., the Klasse twins) then use those, but other than those cases, you don't need a base. I've never seen anything that suggested to me that several different products applied in series has any improvement in performance. Select that single sealant/wax based on the looks, durability, protection that it brings to the table.

 

[jbnery6465]

So after more research I've decided to go with:

Klasse AIO

Zaino Z2-Pro w/ZFX

P21S 100% Carnauba

Zaino Z8



I'll give this combo a try and will most likely have 2-3 layers of Z2 to ensure durability/protection. I live in San Diego, CA and the weather here is consistently great with minimal environmental contaminants.



But definately I'll be trying the 1000p sometime soon, it'd be nice if they made it in a liquid form.



Thanks so much for all you guys' help!

 

[wfedwar]

Somewhere Sal is twitching and he doesn't know why...

 

[Cleaning Fool]

Z2 Pro is a one of my favorites, Im sure you will like it.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

So after more research I've decided to go with:

Klasse AIO

Zaino Z2-Pro w/ZFX

P21S 100% Carnauba

Zaino Z8



I'll give this combo a try and will most likely have 2-3 layers of Z2 to ensure durability/protection. I live in San Diego, CA and the weather here is consistently great with minimal environmental contaminants.



But definately I'll be trying the 1000p sometime soon, it'd be nice if they made it in a liquid form.



Thanks so much for all you guys' help!

Personally I would leave the P21S carnauba out of the above equation.