To Foam or Not to Foam???

[Accumulator]

I've been searching and reading for about an hour on the whole foam cannon/lance thing. I am thinking about getting a foam gun. From what I have read and who I've talked to it seems even thought the foam cannon/lance "looks" cool it doesn't use enough water to actually carry the dirt off the car. Am I correct thinking that?

Neither one will do that without some form of agitation, either from a conventional wash medium or from the potent output of a pressure washer.

... I can't tell if Accumulator likes or dislikes a foam gun

Heh heh, are you being sarcastic?!? I will not wash without a foamgun. Period. Under any circumstances except something like a rental/loaner where I don't care if I mar the paint. Using a foamgun is the only way I can wash marring-free.



But note that I don't currently use a pressure washer, and that could change things; I might use it to get the big stuff off in place of the BHB/foamgun combo, but not in *every* case.



But again, it's all in how you use it. FOR ME, it's all about providing constant lubrication and flushing while the BHB or mitt dislodges the dirt.

Once you start the ONR way, its hard to turn back...

Eh, for some people "yes", for other people "no".



Hey, I'm no ONR/etc.-hater :grinno: I have and use ONR and I recently bought a gallon of IUDJ.



BUT...there's simply no way I can wash all areas of my vehicles that way (gotta be able to touch them with the wash media to use ONR, for one thing) and there are only very specific situations in which I can wash marring-free with the stuff (and it's not like I somehow got idiotic and overlooked some relevant consideration).



As I posted recently, I plan to do *SOME* washes with a combination- first use the foamgun/BHB combo to get the "big stuff" and to clean inaccessible areas, and then use the IUDJ/Garry Dean approach to get the "road film" that the BHB is too gentle to remove.

 

[RaskyR1]

Eh, for some people "yes", for other people "no".



Hey, I'm no ONR/etc.-hater :grinno: I have and use ONR and I recently bought a gallon of IUDJ.



BUT...there's simply no way I can wash all areas of my vehicles that way (gotta be able to touch them with the wash media to use ONR, for one thing) and there are only very specific situations in which I can wash marring-free with the stuff (and it's not like I somehow got idiotic and overlooked some relevant consideration).



As I posted recently, I plan to do *SOME* washes with a combination- first use the foamgun/BHB combo to get the "big stuff" and to clean inaccessible areas, and then use the IUDJ/Garry Dean approach to get the "road film" that the BHB is too gentle to remove.

Agreed. I use ONR quite a bit but I still feel it lacks the real "cleaning" power that soaps have and it just doesn't work as well at getting all the nooks and crannies clean. More of an issue with those of us who live in the snow belt that see salt encrusted cars.

 

[Accumulator]

I use ONR quite a bit but I still feel it..just doesn't work as well at getting all the nooks and crannies clean..

Right. When you can't get the wash medium into some area, the only way to get it clean is to do it by "flushing". Inside the sideview mirror housings, behind license plates, certain suspension/undercarriage areas...gotta more or less "flood them clean".

 

[David Fermani]

I'd rather run my car through the touchless wash instead of lathering it up with foam.

 

[LilJayV10]

Accumulator,



I was being serious about not know if you liked foam or not. Maybe it was late and I was half asleep but I was unable to figure it out. The main reason I want to foam is to pre soak and aiding in lubrication. I have access to a pressure washer(father in laws) but don't use it unless the car is really dirty. I will be buying one later this spring.



With out going off topic too much what is everyone using for a presoak and to remove and LSP's before correction?

 

[shortspark]

"With out going off topic too much what is everyone using for a presoak and to remove and LSP's before correction"?



Wash with CG Citrus Clear at 2 oz. per gallon; clay; polish with P21S Paintwork Cleanser. Now the paint is ready for anything.

 

[David Fermani]

Dawn and/or any APC should be all that you need to remove most protectants.

 

[215Detailing]

Slight comparison Shaving cream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I think the dirt would be suspended in the suds away from the paint pretty much as shaving foam lifts beard/hair away from skin for a closer/safer shave. most shampoo for auto are now Biodegradable/eco friendly.

 

[Accumulator]

Accumulator,



I was being serious about not know if you liked foam or not. Maybe it was late and I was half asleep but I was unable to figure it out. ..

Heh heh, well I guess I cleared that up

The main reason I want to foam is to pre soak and aiding in lubrication.

OK, gotcha. But IMO the time you really need the lubrication is the moment the wash medium is "scrubbing" the paint. Spraying the foam on and then washing "conventionally" doesn't do it IME, at least not like spraying *while* scrubbing.

I have access to a pressure washer(father in laws) but don't use it unless the car is really dirty. I will be buying one later this spring.

Even when a vehicle "isn't very dirty", the little bit of stuff that *is* on it can cause marring. If I could use a pressure washer in my current shop, I'd buy one in a heartbeat and use it *every* time I wash.

With out going off topic too much what is everyone using for a presoak and to remove and LSP's before correction?

I do my presoaks with regular shampoo mix, just use the strongest setting on the foamgun.



Even before doing correction I don't like to mar paint. So I wash my usual way but with a strong shampoo mix, and then strip with either a Dawn wash or (when I'm doing it the proper way ) with ValuGard's "A". Note that Ron Ketcham would argue that "A" is so wonderful that it'll negate the need for that regular wash, but I err on the side of caution.



If you use Dawn, mix it *VERY* strong; many of my LSPs simply shrug it off with no stripping to speak of. But then even if I don't strip the LSP completely, the first pass with a compound usually takes care of it anyhow (yeah yeah..whole 'nother topic).

 

[pwaug]

If you use Dawn, mix it *VERY* strong; many of my LSPs simply shrug it off with no stripping to speak of. But then even if I don't strip the LSP completely, the first pass with a compound usually takes care of it anyhow (yeah yeah..whole 'nother topic).

What ratio water to Dawn do you use???

 

[Legacy]

I've had a Gilmour foamer and a G-blast. IMO foaming is a waste of time and money if you have a pressure washer. It isn't exactly great for the environment. Even with a strong hose, the abrasives you need to worry about, sand and dirt wash off easily. The grime/road film will not wash off with regular soap. Only very harsh chemicals or a wash mitt/sponge will remove that film. So with that in mind, what exactly is foam good for?



It does look cool, can't deny that.

So you don't believe that using foam as a pre-soak will loosen the grime and make washing with a mitt easier?

 

[Accumulator]

What ratio water to Dawn do you use???

"Big squirt of Dawn in the bucket", "awfully strong", something like that. I do it by eye and I use a lot, enough that the rinsing is a bit of a PIA.



Dawn simply isn't all that potent a LSP-stripper IME so more is better.

 

[togwt]

[Dawn simply isn't all that potent a LSP-stripper...] most paint protection products are formulated to be detergent resistant. I’m not trying to be argumentative FWIW I’ve never agreed with Sal Zaino on this either

 

[imported_PiPUK]

[Dawn simply isn't all that potent a LSP-stripper...] most paint protection products are formulated to be detergent resistant. I’m not trying to be argumentative FWIW I’ve never agreed with Sal Zaino on this either

I agree 100% with this statement and I believe most with a 'chemical background' will concur. I have posted on the matter elsewhere and believe much of the difficulty lies with a failure to completely remove the 'stickier' surfactants which are relatively common in cleaning products. My own testing has repeatedly shown that so called 'stripper' detergents will appear to leave a water loving (no beading) surface but this characteristic is often removed with a more thorough pressurised wash resulting in the surface regaining the former, 'beading' character. As I say, I have argued this at length and have never had an acceptable chemical explanation to support the supposed stripping capacity of numerous pH neutral, mild surfactant blends used at low levels.

 

[pwaug]

How about something like Chemical Guys Citrus Wash which is very popular for stripping wax/sealants?? Is that any more effective than Dawn?

 

[LilJayV10]

There are some good replies in here. I as I am sure everyone else is grateful.

 

[Garry Dean]

Its a waste of soap, but some love it and believe in it so.... To each their own.



I truly feel like a good, thorough low pressure rinse does the same job.



In my new Perfect Wash video I foam the car because I wanted everything that is possible to not install marring to be a part of the Perfect process.

 

[LilJayV10]

.... I wanted everything that is possible to not install marring to be a part of the Perfect process.

Isn't that the whole point of foaming to begin with?

 

[Garry Dean]

Isn't that the whole point of foaming to begin with?

My point, exactly.

 

[David Fermani]

So you don't believe that using foam as a pre-soak will loosen the grime and make washing with a mitt easier?

Not if you're using a power-washer 1st. You could have 6 inches of foam on a dirty non-pre-blasted car and use the softest mitt possible...it still isn't going to compare to 1st blasting all the abrasives off instead. It might buffer things up a tiny little bit if all things are equal, but it doesn't substitute a high pressure pre-rinse.