M105 hits like a little girl...

shine said:
That's interesting Ryan. Just proves that there is no one fix for every correction job. Everyone's results are going to differ at least slightly based the exact technique used and paintwork.



M105 does indeed work like a dream on the "normal" GM clear I've tackled with it.
Click to expand...



That is true....there is no one fix. If every paint was the same and every product worked the same then this site would be very boring. We also would be correcting paint in less hours too.



Technique is a main factor, but actual condition of the paint overrules everything.



I always make sure I try to have every compound stocked up, cause you never know when you may need it.
 
My experience with #105 has been a very short work time with a lot of cut. That's how it's designed. Even on areas where I use #105 by hand it flashes very fast. I don't think it has to do with breaking down the polish in the typical sense. I think whatever the carrier is just dries out in a hurry. I'm no chemist though so that's just a guess. 5min of work time out of this particular product just seems crazy! I'm not calling B.S. but I also feel that from firsthand experience their must be some other force at play. Maybe high humidity and low temps? Some non-OEM paint that is very oily maybe? I have no clue :D



On another note, it's also important to remember what this product was designed for. Removing sanding scratches and BAD defects. I find myself using it on bad spots more often than on entire cars. I guess what I'm getting at is this: Just because it finishes down so nicely doesn't mean it should be a "go to" product for your first step every time you turn on your buffer. One of the first rules I learned in paint polishing I still refer to today. Start with the least aggressive product that achieves the desired results. I constantly have to remind myself of that with a product like #105. It's just SO tempting to go right for it and blast through! My most often used combo remains #83 via cutting pad/rotary, #80 via polishing pad/DA, #9 via finishing pad/DA, LSP. #105 is a great new tool for sure, and one I wouldn't want to do without, but it is not *always* my starting point.
 
Ryan has a lot of great points.



When I used M105 for the first time, I thought it was pretty aggressive and had a super short working time. Now that I have mastered how the product works, I can work it for several minutes at slower speeds on a foam pad.



On some paints (usually soft), it works incredibly well, but on others, not so well. I consider it more of a medium grade polish instead of an aggressive compound. Sometimes it really surprises me on harder clears though.



I think that many people aren’t working the product long enough because they can’t physically see the product on the surface. If you look carefully while polishing with M105, you will see a slight film on the panel which can be worked until it turns into a very fine powder, similar to baby powder.



3M Extra Cut (06060) is one of my favorite compounds on harder paints, although it doesn’t finish off as nice as 105. The finish left after compounding doesn’t really matter to me. What really matters to me is that the defects are fully removed. Compounding haze left from 3M EC is easily removed with a medium grade polish, as suggested by 3M and finished off with a finishing polish. I think too many people are forgetting that it is a compound, not a medium or finishing polish.



I think the only way to get a perfect finish is to 3-step a car at minimum (compound, medium polish & final polish). Sometimes I find that as many as 6 or 8 stages are necessary for me to get the results I am happy with. Once in a while you will get lucky and get away with doing a 2-step, but almost never.



Both M105 and 3m Extra Cut are great products and have their place in my product arsenal. Are they the only 2 compounds I have? Absolutely not! You can never have too many products on hand for when you run into problems, which is why I am always trying new products, pads, techniques, etc… Like Ryan stated, there is no one fix for all paint. Problem solving is part of being a professional detailer. If there was one product that worked on all paint, everyone would be a professional!
 
Question for you, Rick.



After compounding with EC, what do you typically use for your medium polish step? I know this can vary, but I'm sure you have a couple of favorites.



Thanks.



RickRack said:
Ryan has a lot of great points.



When I used M105 for the first time, I thought it was pretty aggressive and had a super short working time. Now that I have mastered how the product works, I can work it for several minutes at slower speeds on a foam pad.



On some paints (usually soft), it works incredibly well, but on others, not so well. I consider it more of a medium grade polish instead of an aggressive compound. Sometimes it really surprises me on harder clears though.



I think that many people aren’t working the product long enough because they can’t physically see the product on the surface. If you look carefully while polishing with M105, you will see a slight film on the panel which can be worked until it turns into a very fine powder, similar to baby powder.



3M Extra Cut (06060) is one of my favorite compounds on harder paints, although it doesn’t finish off as nice as 105. The finish left after compounding doesn’t really matter to me. What really matters to me is that the defects are fully removed. Compounding haze left from 3M EC is easily removed with a medium grade polish, as suggested by 3M and finished off with a finishing polish. I think too many people are forgetting that it is a compound, not a medium or finishing polish.



I think the only way to get a perfect finish is to 3-step a car at minimum (compound, medium polish & final polish). Sometimes I find that as many as 6 or 8 stages are necessary for me to get the results I am happy with. Once in a while you will get lucky and get away with doing a 2-step, but almost never.



Both M105 and 3m Extra Cut are great products and have their place in my product arsenal. Are they the only 2 compounds I have? Absolutely not! You can never have too many products on hand for when you run into problems, which is why I am always trying new products, pads, techniques, etc… Like Ryan stated, there is no one fix for all paint. Problem solving is part of being a professional detailer. If there was one product that worked on all paint, everyone would be a professional!
Click to expand...
 
It varies quite a bit depending on the situation.



If I use EC on a wool pad, I usually refine the finish further with EC on a foam cutting pad by fully breaking the product down. I usually try using SIP on either a purple foamed wool or black lambs wool pad first. Sometimes I get lucky and get away with using the SIP/PFW or SIP/black wool combo, but usually have to resort to an additional compounding step.



Sometimes the wool pad abrasions are difficult to remove without following up with EC on a foam pad. When compounding with wool, it usually turns into at least a 4-stage buffing treatment.



If I use EC on a foam pad, I try to get the best finish possible by fully breaking the product down and follow up with SIP on a foam pad for a middle step.



Ryan and I have a few other products that we are testing at moment which seem to be very promising. Still more testing to do though…
 
I'm tempted to try adding mineral oil to my small applicator bottle of M105 to see if it works like others say and extends the work time indefinitely.
 
Jason M said:
My experience with #105 has been a very short work time with a lot of cut. That's how it's designed. Even on areas where I use #105 by hand it flashes very fast. I don't think it has to do with breaking down the polish in the typical sense. I think whatever the carrier is just dries out in a hurry. I'm no chemist though so that's just a guess. 5min of work time out of this particular product just seems crazy! I'm not calling B.S. but I also feel that from firsthand experience their must be some other force at play. Maybe high humidity and low temps? Some non-OEM paint that is very oily maybe? I have no clue :D



On another note, it's also important to remember what this product was designed for. Removing sanding scratches and BAD defects. I find myself using it on bad spots more often than on entire cars. I guess what I'm getting at is this: Just because it finishes down so nicely doesn't mean it should be a "go to" product for your first step every time you turn on your buffer. One of the first rules I learned in paint polishing I still refer to today. Start with the least aggressive product that achieves the desired results. I constantly have to remind myself of that with a product like #105. It's just SO tempting to go right for it and blast through! My most often used combo remains #83 via cutting pad/rotary, #80 via polishing pad/DA, #9 via finishing pad/DA, LSP. #105 is a great new tool for sure, and one I wouldn't want to do without, but it is not *always* my starting point.
Click to expand...





I guess experience is probably the main factor. Give me a product and I'll make it work or at leat try to make it work. I have not had it ever dry up on me or had it gum up on me ever. I really was hoping for it to have a fast working time in the correction/cut department, but it is average on most paints. The gloss dept. it does glow quickly. I always 91% IPA every step and inspect heavily and analyze my work before the next step.



All my paints gets washed, clayed, degreased, prep-sol, 91% IPA'd before I start any paint correction, so no oils or silicones are present. Just squeaky clean paint.



If I was looking to do a quickie detail and time was important I would grab 105, but if I have a full blown 100% correction, I always use something different. However 105 will refine other compound swirls very nicely after using a different compound. I have done this numerous times and have never removed any clear at all neither. Megs makes it sound like a harsh compound, but is not at all. It is pretty safe stuff.:bigups
 
RickRack said:
Ryan has a lot of great points.



When I used M105 for the first time, I thought it was pretty aggressive and had a super short working time. Now that I have mastered how the product works, I can work it for several minutes at slower speeds on a foam pad.



On some paints (usually soft), it works incredibly well, but on others, not so well. I consider it more of a medium grade polish instead of an aggressive compound. Sometimes it really surprises me on harder clears though.



I think that many people aren’t working the product long enough because they can’t physically see the product on the surface. If you look carefully while polishing with M105, you will see a slight film on the panel which can be worked until it turns into a very fine powder, similar to baby powder.



3M Extra Cut (06060) is one of my favorite compounds on harder paints, although it doesn’t finish off as nice as 105. The finish left after compounding doesn’t really matter to me. What really matters to me is that the defects are fully removed. Compounding haze left from 3M EC is easily removed with a medium grade polish, as suggested by 3M and finished off with a finishing polish. I think too many people are forgetting that it is a compound, not a medium or finishing polish.



I think the only way to get a perfect finish is to 3-step a car at minimum (compound, medium polish & final polish). Sometimes I find that as many as 6 or 8 stages are necessary for me to get the results I am happy with. Once in a while you will get lucky and get away with doing a 2-step, but almost never.



Both M105 and 3m Extra Cut are great products and have their place in my product arsenal. Are they the only 2 compounds I have? Absolutely not! You can never have too many products on hand for when you run into problems, which is why I am always trying new products, pads, techniques, etc… Like Ryan stated, there is no one fix for all paint. Problem solving is part of being a professional detailer. If there was one product that worked on all paint, everyone would be a professional!
Click to expand...





I am not a detailer........I am a paint shrink:laugh: It's OK, you can let you defects and blemishes out:woot2: If you let it all out it will be a shinier world:think2
 
Quote - However 105 will refine other compound swirls very nicely after using a different compound. I have done this numerous times and have never removed any clear at all neither. Megs makes it sound like a harsh compound, but is not at all. It is pretty safe stuff.



Ryan, what in your opinion is a strong compound?
 
JuneBug said:
Quote - However 105 will refine other compound swirls very nicely after using a different compound. I have done this numerous times and have never removed any clear at all neither. Megs makes it sound like a harsh compound, but is not at all. It is pretty safe stuff.



Ryan, what in your opinion is a strong compound?
Click to expand...



I love 3M Extra Cut compound 06060. It cuts perfect and just plain works. It does leave a somewhat hazy finish, but that is it's nature...it's a cutting compound.



There are a few new cutting compounds that Rick and I are currently trying out right now too.
 
I know it's been touched on numerous times already, but since you're such a big fan, I thought I'd ask it again.



How do you normally work EC? I have a quart I've yet to use, so I'm curious. Thanks in advance.





rydawg said:
I love 3M Extra Cut compound 06060. It cuts perfect and just plain works. It does leave a somewhat hazy finish, but that is it's nature...it's a cutting compound.



There are a few new cutting compounds that Rick and I are currently trying out right now too.
Click to expand...
 
Bigpoppa3346 said:
:LOLOL



Lots of bickering on these M105 threads recently. Must be a full moon...
Click to expand...



I agree! Way too many personal attacks for my comfort.



Mindflux, if that "inside joke" pic is in reference to the bickering on another forum, I'd appreciate it if you'd remove it.



Thanks!

db
 
DavidB said:
I agree! Way too many personal attacks for my comfort.



Mindflux, if that "inside joke" pic is in reference to the bickering on another forum, I'd appreciate it if you'd remove it.



Thanks!

db
Click to expand...



It's my now Trademarked name for polish application. No joke David. I applied for the trademark rights.

:bow
 
Mindflux said:
It's my now Trademarked name for polish application. No joke David. I applied for the trademark rights.

:bow
Click to expand...



Good luck with the USPTO on that one... is it like the 80-grit paper method? If so, you might get challenged!
 
DavidB said:
Good luck with the USPTO on that one... is it like the 80-grit paper method? If so, you might get challenged!
Click to expand...



We'll see. I might have to talk with chemical guys about using it with their Rocket Polish. We could be a hit sensation with the pros.



By the way it's something like the 80 grit method but it requires even more skill! A love of f body cars and trans-ams doesn't hurt either.



:woot2:
 
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