M105 hits like a little girl...

-Longhorn- said:
God shut up already and quit with the p!ssing contest.



If you want a little more work time out of #105 mix it with #80. That combo has led to amazing success for me.
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You are not forced to read the thread, so maybe you should take your own advise.



Adding 80 will not solve the issue with deep scratches. You will need to do several passes to level the paint that much either way. End of story.
 
This could be an interesting thread provided everyone puts away the egos.



In my experience with C5s 105 on a PFW will achieve quite a bit of cut. Enough to level deep scratches in one pass? I don't know, it depends on the scratches. I don't really care either, it's easy to do a second pass. Can you fully correct a C5 with 105? Sure.
 
Picus said:
This could be an interesting thread provided everyone puts away the egos.



In my experience with C5s 105 on a PFW will achieve quite a bit of cut. Enough to level deep scratches in one pass? I don't know, it depends on the scratches. I don't really care either, it's easy to do a second pass. Can you fully correct a C5 with 105? Sure.
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The only one I see with an ego issue is David. Why call BS instead of being helpful?



David wasn't there at the detail to know how deep those scratches were yet he is acting like he knows it all. Doesn't look very good on the other end.



If you could level those imperfections in 1 pass (that is what David claims) one would be able to compound a car with 105 in an hour.:confused::confused::confused:



PS: I love 105, and 95 equally as well.
 
This has obviously went off onto the rabbit trail to hell.



When one steps back and thinks deeply upon this they may realize that long before hard clears, such as on Vette's and Audi's, we had to deal with hard enamels and there were no new advanced products and or pads to work with. So how did old timers do it back then?



With liquid sand paper (Meguiars had a product, #1 or #4 I believe) and heavy twist wool pads. This was a multi-step process which many times involved wet sanding. No pro ever looked at the car and said...."Easy one step correction here!". They knew it would take several trips around the car. Now I don't work on Vettes but I do a great number of Porsches, both early and late models, and the early model paints tend to be much harder (911's) than those of today (due to a softer clear) so correction on them is hardly ever a one step process, even using 105 and an LC foamed wool pad. It takes at least 1 heavy correction step, 1 medium correction and 1, at least 2 for good measure, final steps (rotary/orbital combo is best bet).



One Pass?



If one claims they can correct in "one pass" just what does that mean? Does this mean that it's one pass, left to right and the paint is totally leveled? Or does it mean that "one pass" of a certain amount of time? If that be so who then determines the amount of time given for that "one pass"? One detailer may feel their one pass is 3 minutes while another is 5 minutes. Who's right?



Perhaps it means "one pass" of said product/pad/tool combo until that said combo has reached its working time limit?



My point here is that this is all subjective and while forums are great only real world experience is going to get you through each job you come across. Instead of seeking to eradicate all paint imperfections in one slam dunk and then having disappointment when that does not happen perhaps the better way to go is to see how paint can be safely corrected using specific products and tools designed for that job.



Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
This has obviously went off onto the rabbit trail to hell.



When one steps back and thinks deeply upon this they may realize that long before hard clears, such as on Vette's and Audi's, we had to deal with hard enamels and there were no new advanced products and or pads to work with. So how did old timers do it back then?



With liquid sand paper (Meguiars had a product, #1 or #4 I believe) and heavy twist wool pads. This was a multi-step process which many times involved wet sanding. No pro ever looked at the car and said...."Easy one step correction here!". They knew it would take several trips around the car. Now I don't work on Vettes but I do a great number of Porsches, both early and late models, and the early model paints tend to be much harder (911's) than those of today (due to a softer clear) so correction on them is hardly ever a one step process, even using 105 and an LC foamed wool pad. It takes at least 1 heavy correction step, 1 medium correction and 1, at least 2 for good measure, final steps (rotary/orbital combo is best bet).



One Pass?



If one claims they can correct in "one pass" just what does that mean? Does this mean that it's one pass, left to right and the paint is totally leveled? Or does it mean that "one pass" of a certain amount of time? If that be so who then determines the amount of time given for that "one pass"? One detailer may feel their one pass is 3 minutes while another is 5 minutes. Who's right?



Perhaps it means "one pass" of said product/pad/tool combo until that said combo has reached its working time limit?



My point here is that this is all subjective and while forums are great only real world experience is going to get you through each job you come across. Instead of seeking to eradicate all paint imperfections in one slam dunk and then having disappointment when that does not happen perhaps the better way to go is to see how paint can be safely corrected using specific products and tools designed for that job.



Anthony
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Great post! :hifive:
 
Anthony Orosco said:
This has obviously went off onto the rabbit trail to hell.



When one steps back and thinks deeply upon this they may realize that long before hard clears, such as on Vette's and Audi's, we had to deal with hard enamels and there were no new advanced products and or pads to work with. So how did old timers do it back then?



With liquid sand paper (Meguiars had a product, #1 or #4 I believe) and heavy twist wool pads. This was a multi-step process which many times involved wet sanding. No pro ever looked at the car and said...."Easy one step correction here!". They knew it would take several trips around the car. Now I don't work on Vettes but I do a great number of Porsches, both early and late models, and the early model paints tend to be much harder (911's) than those of today (due to a softer clear) so correction on them is hardly ever a one step process, even using 105 and an LC foamed wool pad. It takes at least 1 heavy correction step, 1 medium correction and 1, at least 2 for good measure, final steps (rotary/orbital combo is best bet).



One Pass?



If one claims they can correct in "one pass" just what does that mean? Does this mean that it's one pass, left to right and the paint is totally leveled? Or does it mean that "one pass" of a certain amount of time? If that be so who then determines the amount of time given for that "one pass"? One detailer may feel their one pass is 3 minutes while another is 5 minutes. Who's right?



Perhaps it means "one pass" of said product/pad/tool combo until that said combo has reached its working time limit?



My point here is that this is all subjective and while forums are great only real world experience is going to get you through each job you come across. Instead of seeking to eradicate all paint imperfections in one slam dunk and then having disappointment when that does not happen perhaps the better way to go is to see how paint can be safely corrected using specific products and tools designed for that job.



Anthony
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I always assume that one pass means polishing until the polish is broken down. Not one physical pass right to left. While 105 cuts fast it doesn't have much working time, so I understood where Shine was coming from. I'll say it again that those type of straight lines will need several passes to level with any compound.



I don't get why people would have an issue with that.:down:down:down



I agree with your post Anthony.
 
One thing that Shine mentioned was he didn't use much pressure. I learned the old school way and I use 10-15 pounds starting off and ease up after a few passes. But, I use 95, never learned to like 105 - never could master that screwy 10 second of work time.
 
I used 95 the other day and was very dissapointed with it. It filled a ton and I notice these round slice marks created from the abrasives not being milled correctly.



105 leaves a nice gloss, but falls short in the heavy correction department. On milder stuff it does perform VERY well for quickies. 105 does have it's place for sure.



Just my opinion on trying hundreds of compounds in the past 18 years. I am a diehard compound/polish junkie.
 
One thing I find very interesting is that everyone says 105 has a short working time. Rick and I have gone through 5 or 6 bottles and we find it has a long working time. I work a panel at least 5 minutes and the gloss is superb. It all depends on the paint's hardness and the total condition of scratches and deep swirls.



I find that 105 works better on softer clears and works superb on most GM clears.
 
JuneBug said:
... But, I use 95, never learned to like 105 - never could master that screwy 10 second of work time.
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rydawg said:
One thing I find very interesting is that everyone says 105 has a short working time. Rick and I have gone through 5 or 6 bottles and we find it has a long working time. I work a panel at least 5 minutes and the gloss is superb....
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:think: :hairpull
 
Yeah Down South - I hear ya, but like they say - your milage may vary. I never noticed 95 filling either. If you go back and look at the threads on 105 when it came out - it was like the gift from the heavens. Honestly, there are so many variables that I just gave up on trying to find the next miracle compound or polish. The thing that works for me and you may want to try it too, pick a product - learn it's personality on different paints, pads, machines and you'll be better able to correct paint issues than if you constantly switch around between brands. I choose Megs, why - it works, it's reasonably priced, it's available locally and with the exception of 105, I've found that I can get results without too much "learning curve".
 
rydawg said:
One thing I find very interesting is that everyone says 105 has a short working time. Rick and I have gone through 5 or 6 bottles and we find it has a long working time. I work a panel at least 5 minutes and the gloss is superb. It all depends on the paint's hardness and the total condition of scratches and deep swirls.



I find that 105 works better on softer clears and works superb on most GM clears.
Click to expand...



You work one application of 105 for 5 minutes, or work on the panel with multiple applications of 105 for 5 minutes?
 
That's interesting Ryan. Just proves that there is no one fix for every correction job. Everyone's results are going to differ at least slightly based the exact technique used and paintwork.



M105 does indeed work like a dream on the "normal" GM clear I've tackled with it.
 
Picus said:
You work one application of 105 for 5 minutes, or work on the panel with multiple applications of 105 for 5 minutes?
Click to expand...



It depends on the harness of the clear and the defects, but yes I have worked 105 for 5 minutes a whole panel. Split the fender in two sections and work each half for 2-3 minutes evenly.



That's why every time I hear short working time, I get confused.
 
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