Have Click N Brags "Jumped the Shark"???????

detailfanatic said:
It all depends Scott, here is a pic of a single stage correction I did with my DA last week.
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Nice job!



What I am talking about is the basic level details that won't have much correction, either because it isn't needed or the customer won't pay what it takes. Just not much to see most of the time, increased depth doesn't always show up. Of course what seems to happen is that I don't think whatever improvement there will be will show up well in a before and after and then it does. :lol When I did the Opti-Coat on that Focus, we also washed his girlfriend's Echo and polished her headlights. I honestly thought I'd end up having to wetsand them they looked so bad. However, OHC and the test Optimum cutting pad I have took it all out almost immediately. Felt like kicking myself for not getting befores.
 
Scottwax said:
Nice job!



What I am talking about is the basic level details that won't have much correction, either because it isn't needed or the customer won't pay what it takes. Just not much to see most of the time, increased depth doesn't always show up. Of course what seems to happen is that I don't think whatever improvement there will be will show up well in a before and after and then it does. :lol When I did the Opti-Coat on that Focus, we also washed his girlfriend's Echo and polished her headlights. I honestly thought I'd end up having to wetsand them they looked so bad. However, OHC and the test Optimum cutting pad I have took it all out almost immediately. Felt like kicking myself for not getting befores.
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Ok, my misunderstanding. Thanks for clearing that up. :)
 
As a weekend detailer, if and when i post any threads as far as click and brag goes, im amazed if i get more than 20 replies.



Two of my most recent threads, which were from a while back(i dont post on here much, more of a reader and information absorber), got little to no attention. Im not trying to sound like a whiny little kid in the corner, but im kind of surprised that not many people reply and offer tips. comments, or just a cool/good job type thing. Sure, i get some replies here and there, but not nearly as many as a "pro" "fameous" detailer.



ONE reply, 192 views

http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-brag/137787-testing-out-my-time-lapse-skills.html



16 relplies(some of my own included) and 622 views.

http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-brag/138466-2007-focus-zx3-hobbiest-detailer.html



12 replies, 520 views, again, some replies are my own

http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-brag/137165-my-car-2008-caliber.html





The main reason why i joined this site was to learn how to become a better detailer for my own personal enjoyment, and to help out my friends with their cars when they need it. Its more of a hobby for me than anything else. Ive learned a LOT on here, and continue to learn. A little support from some of the "big guys" on here wouldnt hurt though.



I do read through the click and brags, and i do post in them on occasion, but not nearly as often as i should. I think the problem is that there are SO many threads, and SO many high end cars(which are cool to look at), that people loose interest in seeing "every day" details. Cars that are driven by the soccer mom that are thrashed, etc etc. Looking at super awesome expensive supercars is cool, but i think its really missing the normal, everyday family cars and daily drivers.
 
my two cents as someone that's only half completed his first real correction (and of which I will post in CB though..);

There's a lot of saturation going on. I assume 5-6 years ago, correction was a bit less known and required more tips and tricks than it does these days. Anyone (myself included) today can go out and pickup a DA and manage a pretty good correction. The perfection jobs that are down to every single last RID are more impressive imo, but you can't really encompas that without full panroamic 10+MP photographs and a light booth. You've also got the internet to consider. It's practically replacing all forms of media, so you have exponentially more competition and opportunity to show-off your work.



So some simple math here;

Limitless advertising + advancements in the industry make it easy for anyone to do- and do well, + dozens or even hundreds of individual sites to post up on= a degridation in the quality and response per thread. Also because the internet is *so* huge, and there are so many sites out there, chances are you won't even get a chance to see real professionals out doing what would be considered top-tier work unless you browse multiple large sites.



it's not just this industry who's been affected by the internet in this way however, everyone has. It makes sense. In a world where you have limitless opportunity to research and have an opportunity to look at every product avaliable in an entire industry, it's hard to make anything look spectacular or stand out from the rest. The detailing industry is one of the worse from my experience in this matter however, and a partial answer to the slow-down can be found within the industry itself; how many brands out there have entire product lines? Normally in other parts of the automotive world there are clear-cut better products and lines as to where your extra money is going. paint correction is the exact opposite. There is no mathmatical forumla or review site that can sufficiently explain why a $1000 can of number 1 carbanua is superior to some OTS meguiars gold class. It's mostly personal opinion, and the same can be said for the litertally hundreds or thousands of other APC's, MF towels, DS's, waxes and car washes. When there is such a selection and the answer to which is the best is which works best for you, it sort of dilutes any effectiveness that showing it off has.



Clear case in point, I mostly wasted the better part of 5 benjimans on a large product kit from a certian manufacture.. If I had simply browsed their site like had been suggested and stayed put, I would have thought- this is as good as it gets, and I would have thought, I *do* need to spend $500 on a flex to get some of the RIDS out on my car. Instead, I found autopia, and found out that everything I thought that was 'as good as it gets' is acutally pretty mediocre.
 
I can only speak for myself, but the only things i find brag-worthy are tortured restorations.



I understand the 'brag' part can include the posts that are along the lines of "look at this cool i get to work on!" But exotic threads impress me absolutely zero just because they were exotics... I mean, i know what the car is, I've seen it before, and just because the detailer is working on it doesnt make it any more real to me.



But you give me a torn down piece of garbage American front drive beater from the 1990s brought back from the brink, and I'm foaming at the mouth to learn and see more.



So Buffy's summer roadster has swirls, big deal. Latisha's Dodge dynasty that started looking like an extra from Madmax? Bring it on~~
 
To answer the question in the title of this thread I would say, yes, they have. I used to read CnBs because the authors explained the process and illustrated it with pictures. Now it's just pictures and ego. And that isn't limited to autopia. People copy/paste the same thread to every forum and in every detailing section of every forum all you read is "X detailer vs X car", open the thread to see before and afters with little to no verbiage.
 
Picus said:
To answer the question in the title of this thread I would say, yes, they have. I used to read CnBs because the authors explained the process and illustrated it with pictures. Now it's just pictures and ego. And that isn't limited to autopia. People copy/paste the same thread to every forum and in every detailing section of every forum all you read is "X detailer vs X car", open the thread to see before and afters with little to no verbiage.
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Agreed. That's why I try to be as detailed as possible in my own write-ups and appreciate those who do the same. I look at well written C&B threads as a way to continue learning. If it is just pictures and nothing about techniques or products, I don't learn anything.
 
Yep. I am going to sound a little like I'm on a high horse, but I am really tired of pro detailers just posting cnbs and not offering any sort of helpful feedback to the forums they are members of. I am not referring to autopia now, mostly automotive sites whose detailing sections are littered with pros posting pictures and nothing else. I can't count the times I've seen a pro join a forum just to post a cnb of a car that site is intended for just to drum up more business.
 
08Sunburst said:
The main reason why i joined this site was to learn how to become a better detailer for my own personal enjoyment, and to help out my friends with their cars when they need it. Its more of a hobby for me than anything else. Ive learned a LOT on here, and continue to learn. A little support from some of the "big guys" on here wouldnt hurt though.
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This brings up an interesting point worth expounding upon. Different people in different situations use the C'n'B's for a multitude of reasons. Whether it's seeking validation, advertising, just showing off, or looking for constructive feedback/learning.



Remembering that only some of us know each other in the real world outside of the forums, and keeping in mind that this is a public forum, it's difficult to know how someone will react to having even constructive criticism posted in one of their write-up threads. If folks are concerned about offending the person showing off their work, they'll shy away from commenting instead of supplying feedback or adding a disingenuous "good job!" post.



I also don't often read a click 'n brag thread where there are questions from the person posting. Perhaps, if you want feedback on something specific, you could say "Here's what I was able to do to _____ with x product, is there anything I can do to improve on this even more?" That way people know without a doubt that you want that kind of feedback.



It's just as much the responsibility of the person writing the thread to attract attention to it as it is the responsibility of the community to respond.
 
Picus said:
Yep. I am going to sound a little like I'm on a high horse, but I am really tired of pro detailers just posting cnbs and not offering any sort of helpful feedback to the forums they are members of. I am not referring to autopia now, mostly automotive sites whose detailing sections are littered with pros posting pictures and nothing else. I can't count the times I've seen a pro join a forum just to post a cnb of a car that site is intended for just to drum up more business.
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I don't cross post in any forum I am not an active member of. Just feels too much like spam if you post on multiple forums without any other activity.
 
I've actually had to go and ignore certain people in the C&B section because their threads were worthless IMO. I don't need to see a dozen pictures of you using OPC and little or no results. Personally, I find the most value in the well-laid posts, and the most enjoyment out of those who bring some really awful cars back from the brink. The moldy Audi comes to mind.
 
Scottwax said:
I don't cross post in any forum I am not an active member of. Just feels too much like spam if you post on multiple forums without any other activity.
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Amazingly, many pros do it and get away with it regularly at most of the brand related car forums.
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
This brings up an interesting point worth expounding upon. Different people in different situations use the C'n'B's for a multitude of reasons. Whether it's seeking validation, advertising, just showing off, or looking for constructive feedback/learning.



Remembering that only some of us know each other in the real world outside of the forums, and keeping in mind that this is a public forum, it's difficult to know how someone will react to having even constructive criticism posted in one of their write-up threads. If folks are concerned about offending the person showing off their work, they'll shy away from commenting instead of supplying feedback or adding a disingenuous "good job!" post.



I also don't often read a click 'n brag thread where there are questions from the person posting. Perhaps, if you want feedback on something specific, you could say "Here's what I was able to do to _____ with x product, is there anything I can do to improve on this even more?" That way people know without a doubt that you want that kind of feedback.



It's just as much the responsibility of the person writing the thread to attract attention to it as it is the responsibility of the community to respond.
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That's another thing. CnBs have basically become "here is what I did" and then you get between 2-200 "nice" posts. It's so difficult to accurately gauge a detail via pictures that offering any sort of real feedback is tough; and if that feedback is in the form of constructive criticism it's frowned on. I am not saying all cnbs should end, just that if you do post one make it a good one. :D Post your process and products, post detailed photos, post some tips if you learned anything during the detail, etc. Then it'd be worthwhile, imo.
 
Picus said:
That's another thing. CnBs have basically become "here is what I did" and then you get between 2-200 "nice" posts. It's so difficult to accurately gauge a detail via pictures that offering any sort of real feedback is tough; and if that feedback is in the form of constructive criticism it's frowned on. I am not saying all cnbs should end, just that if you do post one make it a good one. :D Post your process and products, post detailed photos, post some tips if you learned anything during the detail, etc. Then it'd be worthwhile, imo.
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I really don't fault anyone posting their work and not describing every step of the process or answering everyquestion they may get. Its called BRAG not tell. All they should be nice enough to do is say 'thank you'. Brag is 'look what I did' not 'here is how I did it.' Maybe have a 'Show and Tell' section for that.
 
OK, I guess I see that point. For me at least, pictures with no process is pretty much useless...but for others maybe it's helpful, or at least entertaining.
 
I can see both sides of the story. I'm sure most people find it more entertaining to read about different steps and what was done, but if someone chooses one reason or another to not include that information, it only makes their write-up less appealing. If they're OK with it being slightly less entertaining, then I'm OK with it too. Let's not forget that even those epic threads talking in-depth of what the detailer did at each step are most often just scrolled over to see the pics after all.



I'd really like to see a split between Click & Brags versus Show & Tells. I think that has nice potential.
 
Very interesting discussion. I'm almost a 100% lurker, but I'm going to throw one thing into the mix that's completely personal preference:

I've seen this in a number of forums I used to frequent....



The look of the forum is actually visually exhausting. Many internet forums use to have clean and simple page layouts. A forum thread actually looked like a neat and clean conversation.

Today, the look is visually cluttered and exhausting: colored gradient gray bars on the top and bottom of each post, quotes are white text in dark blue boxes, the posters name and avatar are in a black thick box, there are dark colored logos and signatures all over the place, etc.



What this actually fosters is the online version of a conversation overrun by noise and distractions. Instead of the actual conversation and photos taking front and center stage, my brain is pulled in all directions looking at colored gradient bars, dark blue boxes, dark black boxes, logos, huge swaths of color, etc. Yikes!



I know this sounds silly, but I know of a number of forums that switched to a visually busier layout over the years, and the number of quality posts went down together with the new "visual update". Yes, that's anectdotal evidence, but I feel it's true, and it feels true.



When the forum layouts return to a simple place to have a conversation with a CLEAN uncluttered look (which also loads faster), I'd wager that the conversation would pick up again. ....but not from the old timers. In my experience, once someone stops posting, they rarely go back to becoming a frequent poster. I have theories on that, but that's a whole 'nother subject. But new comers might be encouraged to carry on coversations.

...Just a thought.
 
The_Terminator said:
Very interesting discussion. I'm almost a 100% lurker, but I'm going to throw one thing into the mix that's completely personal preference:

I've seen this in a number of forums I used to frequent....



The look of the forum is actually visually exhausting. Many internet forums use to have clean and simple page layouts. A forum thread actually looked like a neat and clean conversation.

Today, the look is visually cluttered and exhausting: colored gradient gray bars on the top and bottom of each post, quotes are white text in dark blue boxes, the posters name and avatar are in a black thick box, there are dark colored logos and signatures all over the place, etc.



What this actually fosters is the online version of a conversation overrun by noise and distractions. Instead of the actual conversation and photos taking front and center stage, my brain is pulled in all directions looking at colored gradient bars, dark blue boxes, dark black boxes, logos, huge swaths of color, etc. Yikes!



I know this sounds silly, but I know of a number of forums that switched to a visually busier layout over the years, and the number of quality posts went down together with the new "visual update". Yes, that's anectdotal evidence, but I feel it's true, and it feels true.



When the forum layouts return to a simple place to have a conversation with a CLEAN uncluttered look (which also loads faster), I'd wager that the conversation would pick up again. ....but not from the old timers. In my experience, once someone stops posting, they rarely go back to becoming a frequent poster. I have theories on that, but that's a whole 'nother subject. But new comers might be encouraged to carry on coversations.

...Just a thought.
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While what you've brought up is really a totally separate issue, I 100% agree. I honestly really hate the aesthetics of the vB skin this site is using. Seems like something designed and built by an amateur.
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
While what you've brought up is really a totally separate issue, I 100% agree. I honestly really hate the aesthetics of the vB skin this site is using. Seems like something designed and built by an amateur.
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I set mine to "vBulletin Default" and leave it there - color scheme is a lot easier to the eyes.
 
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