100% carnauba ??????????

[topnotchtouch]

We have for 5 pages denoted facts about the non-existence of natural white carnauba. Vendors with access to distributors of raw carnaubas are not able to acquire this material. We have asked you to present non-advertising based proof but you have not been able to. You have refused to even ask Zymol about their claim ( Zymol website only allows questions from people the own their product. )

This is not about the quality or price of Zymol (not a factor here at Autopia because if something is truly a step above most here would pay the premium without hesitation) but about the usage of a term and description of their product stratification based on the quality and proportion of a non-existing natural "white" carnauba.

The game is not over. The ball is in your court. Question Zymol beyond their written claims. Hey, you might have some money coming to you. :nixweiss



PS. If you PM me your serial number of your Zymol product I will pose this natural "white" carnauba existence question to them.

:wavey

I did send them an email asking for clarification on this "white" carnauba. Got a reply today just pointing me to www.zymol.com/carnauba.htm. I replied and said that is the very page causing all the confusion. I asked specifically for them to define what "white" carnauba is. I will share the reply when I get it.



I think though the answer to this can be found on that very page. One of the lines from the very first paragraph reads



"Number One Grade Carnauba varies from a very pale yellow (white), through a greenish brown (yellow)."



From that line I think it is safe to assume that "white" is actually referring to #1 yellow (pale yellow) and "yellow" is referring to a lower grade which is greenish brown.



A problem with that statement that I just noticed is that they seem to be saying that #1 grade carnauba varies in color from pale yellow to a greenish brown. That is NOT true at all. The whole grading scale is based on color. The greenish brown carnauba would be way down the scale, nowhere near #1 grade.



Why they choose to make up their own terms rather than using the established grading scale I have no idea. Is it deceptive, I don't know. Look at the term "polish", the entire car care industry can't come to a consensus on what it means. :nixweiss



I'm still not giving up my jar of Zymol creme

 

[imported_memnuts]

Excellent observation and research Bob. :bow



:xyxthumbs

 

[lbls1]

We have for 5 pages denoted facts about the non-existence of natural white carnauba. Vendors with access to distributors of raw carnaubas are not able to acquire this material. We have asked you to present non-advertising based proof but you have not been able to. You have refused to even ask Zymol about their claim ( Zymol website only allows questions from people the own their product. )

This is not about the quality or price of Zymol (not a factor here at Autopia because if something is truly a step above most here would pay the premium without hesitation) but about the usage of a term and description of their product stratification based on the quality and proportion of a non-existing natural "white" carnauba.

The game is not over. The ball is in your court. Question Zymol beyond their written claims. Hey, you might have some money coming to you. :nixweiss



PS. If you PM me your serial number of your Zymol product I will pose this natural "white" carnauba existence question to them.

:wavey

Facts being (like I said earlier) a confirmed statement from a wax manufacturer or a clinical (lab) test stating that pale yellow carnauba is not a pure form, but either a fictitious material or a man-made material. I am just re-stating what I said earlier, not meaning to re-hash the debate.



There isn't a need to ask Zymol anything, when they've given me a certificate of authenticity (besides, what would you expect them to say on the phone except in support of their claims). Anything else discussed besides a documented study (including all of the countering claims in this thread) is a waste of time.



You can contact Zymol yourself, btw, and pose that question to them concerning their estate wax line, and in particular "white carnauba" as stated in their website and literature.



Again, one entity has come out and claimed, and guarantees that their ingredients exist. There isn't a need to present anything else except evidence that contradicts their claim.

 

[imported_memnuts]

Obviously if someone states their products contents on paper with certification (their own of course) than there is no need to question its validity.

If one customer questions these claims, they will refund his/her money. No problem. The profit made on the other 1000's will easy out weight this set-back. :nixweiss



I think Bob pointed out Zymol's own error/clarification by stating that what they call "white" carnuaba is actually pale yellow.In other words, they use in most of their formulas carnaubas identical to other manufactures and spice things up by adding this "white" (pale yellow) to their elite stuff. Just find it very strange that no other manufacturer can obtain this rare and seemingly non-extistent pure natural white carnuaba if it is an entity in itself.



Marketing and mirrors, what a wonderful form of art.



I am not saying Zymol is not a wonderful product but their stated unique carnuaba type usage claims is marketing more so than reality.

 

[topnotchtouch]

Obviously if someone states their products contents on paper with certification (their own of course) than there is no need to question its validity.

If one customer questions these claims, they will refund his/her money. No problem. The profit made on the other 1000's will easy out weight this set-back. :nixweiss



I think Bob pointed out Zymol's own error/clarification by stating that what they call "white" carnuaba is actually pale yellow.In other words, they use in most of their formulas carnaubas identical to other manufactures and spice things up by adding this "white" (pale yellow) to their elite stuff. Just find it very strange that no other manufacturer can obtain this rare and seemingly non-extistent pure natural white carnuaba if it is an entity in itself.



Marketing and mirrors, what a wonderful form of art.



I am not saying Zymol is not a wonderful product but their stated unique carnuaba type usage claims is marketing more so than reality.

Got an email today from Koster Keunen Inc. which is a large refiner/distributor of carnauba and other types of waxes.

I have seen white carnauba, but since the material is really light yellow I am not sure what white carnauba is. We only carry the natural light yellow material.







Regards,



John Koster

You decide

 

[stiege]

Facts being (like I said earlier) a confirmed statement from a wax manufacturer or a clinical (lab) test stating that pale yellow carnauba is not a pure form, but either a fictitious material or a man-made material. I am just re-stating what I said earlier, not meaning to re-hash the debate.



There isn't a need to ask Zymol anything, when they've given me a certificate of authenticity (besides, what would you expect them to say on the phone except in support of their claims). Anything else discussed besides a documented study (including all of the countering claims in this thread) is a waste of time.



You can contact Zymol yourself, btw, and pose that question to them concerning their estate wax line, and in particular "white carnauba" as stated in their website and literature.



Again, one entity has come out and claimed, and guarantees that their ingredients exist. There isn't a need to present anything else except evidence that contradicts their claim.

Wow... and I thought my wife was stubborn. :bow



Jason