100% carnauba ??????????

forrest said:
The % of carnauba is a wax is basically meaningless, except as a marketing statement.



Different formulae will support different percentages of carnauba to reach a saturation point - the point at which adding more ceases to make it better.



Depending on many variables (types and amounts of solvents, oils, etc. used), the formula will only hold "x" amount. Once you cross that point, the product doesn't get any better, but it does allow your advertising people to say you have more than anyone else.



It goes back to the, "Mine is bigger/faster/better" than yours.



Boys and their toys.



I'm still searching for that albino carnauba tree, too.
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With all due respect, I'd have to disagree with you here. I have noticed a considerable difference between pure waxes that have less content of carnauba versus premium waxes with more carnauba content. At the minimum, with a high carnauba content wax, you will not have to apply as many coatings as opposed to a familiar lower content carnauba.



As for resolution, each person actually would have to decide for his or herself whether a premium wax really looks better than a good quality affordable wax.



It has been my experience, though, that there was a significant difference in the quality of resolution between a premium wax versus a lower priced wax resolution. I've witnessed this in my own paint's resolution (comparing the results of an over the counter wax like meguiars and mothers versus Zymol's estate wax....unfair maybe, but noticeable none the less) as well as comparing my finish against my club members results. All of the shine and quality with the waxes were admirably good, but in terms of depth of resolution (not shine), and color rendition, I did see a significant difference. But that is just my opinion.
 
lbls1 said:
With all due respect, I'd have to disagree with you here. I have noticed a considerable difference between pure waxes that have less content of carnauba versus premium waxes with more carnauba content. At the minimum, with a high carnauba content wax, you will not have to apply as many coatings as opposed to a familiar lower content carnauba.

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Sorry, guess I didn't explain myself well. What I was trying to say was a product that is 61% (or whatever %) is not necessarily better than one with a lower or different % of carnauba - it depends on what type of formula is used. If one has 61%, and another (different formula) only has 27%, and both are at their saturation point, the 61% formula product is not necessarily a better product due simply to its higher % of carnauba.
 
Ok, that's better. I'd concede to that. You could possibly have 61% of a rough grade of yellow, and still not have as good of a result as say, a 27 or 30% content of a number one yellow or white.



Yes that makes sense. The real test would be a comparison between a #1 yellow in an affordable wax versus the same #1 yellow in a premium wax. The result, however, would have to be determined by comparing finishes.
 
The way I look at it is this. I have read that there is a limit to having too much carnauba, I think arund 55% by weight. The key is the formulation. I think most would agree, and it certainly won the Guru Reports test, that P21S is among the very best carnauba. The formulation includes a beeswax that makes it really easy to apply. I think the mix of the two is the secret.



I also think manufacturing process can be important. For example selecting the highest grade carnauba and keeping it very pure in the mixing process is probably important.
 
lbls1 said:
The wax will need to be removed with a cleaning solvent, such as an example, detergents or cleaning agents (polishes).



That is one of the reasons why wax has to be removed, in addition to the dirt on the paint, in order for you to have the optimal resolution. In time, wax will become saturated with dirt and oxidation from the paint, and if you put additional coats on top of old wax, your finish will look cloudy and dull.
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Won't the wax eventually wear off by itself? (all of it)
 
Zymol (like I mentioned earlier) highest grade of wax contains 61% #1 white carnauba. Zymol certifies and will guarantee the contents of every estate wax that they feature.



The Guru report was informative, but I would not take their findings as law. It is, of course, their opinion. There were several waxes featured in their report that I could not agree with in terms of their rating. The longevity ratings for some of their waxes, also I didn't necessarily agree with (though in general I would agree that the polymers will have a longer durability in lighter coatings than the typical carnaubas).



They did mention carnauba, but even there, they did not go into an in-depth detail about the types of carnauba (the reference above did a better job in describing carnauba's attributes). What Guru's report did well was to introduce a very good collection of different types of car finishers, and various tips in terms of car care.



I have a lot of respect for p21s, in fact I have some on order. There is a reason, even if its my opinion, why I chose a high content grade wax versus a smaller content carnauba; Again, it was based on my observation where I regarded my choice as the best I've seen personally so far, (and can afford................barely).
 
III said:
Won't the wax eventually wear off by itself? (all of it)
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No, if that's hard to believe or not. You would have to use an agent like soap to get it off (and not completely either).



But if you, let's say, abandoned the car and left it to the elements with no care at all (like in a junk yard), then the wax residue would dry along and into the deteriorated paint (nothing is invincible yaknow!). It wouldn't happen overnight.
 
Other people have told me that carnauba is outdated and noone uses it anymore because there is stuff out there that works better and lasts longer.
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As far as I know, carnauba is still the best for overall shine, depth, and gloss. Synthetic waxes have longer lasting protection but not as strong a wet look though I think Zaino is something very special.



I plan to try Zaino soon but I find using P21S or Paste Glaz is so easy that I don't mind the more frequent carnauba paste waxing.



I think the big recent breakthrough has probably been better optical qualities of wax and also adding in beeswax and other chemicals to make application and removal easier.
 
Quote: Carnauba has a pretty high melting point and resistance to acid so it should last



~One man’s opinion / observations~



I thought that the respective melting points where- Carnauba wax 175oF+ Polymer 345oF+



A general rule of thumb is to expect 50% of your Carnauba wax layer to be lost to evaporation / erosion after 30 days, 75% after 60 days and 95% gone (dependant upon ambient temperatures) after 90 days it should be reapplied.



This barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants (ultra violet radiation, acid rain, ozone, industrial pollution, rain, road dirt and tar, etc) and the paint film surface and this renewable barrier is probably less than 0.000001" thick.



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
This barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants (ultra violet radiation, acid rain, ozone, industrial pollution, rain, road dirt and tar, etc) and the paint film surface and this renewable barrier is probably less than 0.000001" thick.
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TOGWT-Very good point. I think we are often so focused on the "perfect shine" that we lose sight of the protective qualities of the wax.



You can always tell in used car lots which cars had owners that took care of them. In poorly maintained cars, paint seems to oxidize very quickly and fade out in a short period of time.
 
Hey Treatment Man, I'd suggest you using a synthetic sealant on your customers cars. Stuff just lasts longer. Nearly everyone has been read the riot act at the dealership about "Permaplate", (remember the movie Fargo?) "Trucote" or similar "paint protection". Perhaps you could explain it's the same type of product that the dealerships charge $600 for, and you would be telling the truth.



And then when someone rolls in with a classic Vette or GT2 you can tell them for XX$ more they can have the "concours package", which on top of their sealant you put a carnauba topper.



Anyway, just my 2 cents.
 


"Other people have told me that carnauba is outdated and noone uses it anymore because there is stuff out there that works better and lasts longer."
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Who said that carnauba is outdated? Then why is it still sold retail wide? Why, then, are quite a few people talking about "topping" their so called end it all synthetics with a carnauba? Compare a good carnauba vs. a good synthetic, then tell me the result. You might be quite surprised.
 
Here's the scoop on carnauba. The first time it is processed it is called #1 the second #2(never seen this one) the third #3 and so on. #1 carnauba is very pale and some people call it white. In technical terms there is no such thing as a white carnauba no matter how young the tree is.



And doing what you want to a young tree is just tree abuse and violators should be jailed. Oh, sorry I've got 7 month old girl so the young thing just kind of slipped.



At any rate, #3 carnauba is very dark. We have it in the lab but have found no use for it...it just doesn't work well.



Oh yeah, 100% carnauba. It means different things to different companies but it never means that it is the only ingredient and for that matter it is doubtful it is the only type of wax in the bottle. To me it is a little redundant cause IMO 100% carnauba means the carnauba in the bottle is carnauba. Now purity is a different matter. #1 is the most pure and is sometimes called pure carnauba.
 
DENNIS ,In your Mothers wax pure carnuba(which in my opinion I think is one of the best products sold in stores)what is the breakdown?what % is carnuba?
 
blkZ28Conv said:
There are some wax manufacturers that advertise the use of only white carnauba in their products. There is no such thing as an albino carnauba tree (the power of advertising).

Number one grade yellow carnauba is the highest quality available. Bleaching does nothing for improving its quality.
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Thanks Dennis for verifying my research into this "old-wife's tell".

Always nice having someone in the business correcting these myths. :xyxthumbs
 
ALAN81 said:
DENNIS ,In your Mothers wax pure carnuba(which in my opinion I think is one of the best products sold in stores)what is the breakdown?what % is carnuba?
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Thanks for good words. As far as carnauba content goes, I'd tell ya but then...!



But seriously, we don't use the percentage of carnauba as a marketing tool. We don't discuss the percentages either. It is one of the determining factors of why it works well and that's a secret. I can tell you we have found adding more carnauba becomes wasteful and provides no benefit (it only cost you more). At the same time any less carnauba would make it much less effective. I can also tell you, generally speaking of course, that liquids contain less carnauba than true hard cake paste waxes but the durability is substantially the same.



I know this isn't what you were looking for but it is the best I can do.
 
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