100% carnauba ??????????

Mr. Chemist said:
Well I'm certainly glad to know that as a chemist it would be ok for me to use "synthetic" carnauba wax, instead of real carnauba wax and it will be fine because of the symantics. I can still call it pure carnauba wax...right?



Gosh after all it is carnauba...right.....????



Wrong.



I'm done with this thread.
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Again, you are going to extremes. They are simply calling #1 yellow carnauba "white". They are not trying to pass of a lesser grade as a higher grade. It is not the sinister conspiracy you are trying to make it out to be.
 
TOGWT said:
~One mans opinion / observations~



b) Marketing Hype = Scientific Fiction
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Marketing Hype = the existences of a "true" white carnauba with properties beyond the highest grade #1 pale yellow. This really is pure SciFi. I am sure #1 can itself be broken down into sub-grades of #1 but the product, unless alter, is still pale yellow.

I still have not located any literature, besides product promos and package inserts, that identify a "white" form of pure carnuaba beyond #1 yellow.

This is not a discussion of semantics but one of "truth in advertising". Show us the existence of the "white" carnauba that is actually a superior grade to pale yellow #1 carnauba and this discussion will end. IMHO
 
Quote: I don't believe I have ever seen Zymol market "white" carnauba as being any higher grade than #1 yellow or even something different for that matter. I am open-minded though if you can show me where they have.





“Titanium contains 51 percent Brazilian No. 1 Yellow and White Carnauba by volume (80% Yellow, 20% White)

Atlantique contains 60 percent Brazilian No. 1 White Carnauba by volume�

Information source: zymol Owner’s Manual



~One mans opinion / observations~



I would seem to me that they infer that white carnauba is superior to #1 yellow as the higher end products only contain white carnauba wax



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon
 
I think the important thing here is that certain claims are being made, setting a product apart from others, based on a special ingredient. It gives the appearance that other products in the same category contain a lesser grade of this special ingredient. So far, technically speaking, this special ingredient has not been found. So far all distributors of this special ingredient have not seen nor heard of this higher grade. So far the technical information does not support the higher grade. It is unlikely there is a substantial difference in the highest grades between distributors since the different grades of carnauba are processed to meet specific standards and fall within certain specifications. There seems to be a logical conclusion that can be drawn from this.



Different companies find there strenghts in different areas.
 
Carnauba wax: The colour of the wax is determined by the age of the leaves when harvested and ranges from pale yellow (new, unopened leaves) to greenish brown (older leaves exposed to sun and weather). The pale yellow wax is the highest grade of Carnauba available.
 
Excellent source and a possible answer to this "white" carnauba question.



This raw material supplier does sell a "refined" form of carnauba which they label as "white".



Important word refined. Processed not naturally occuring. They state their process involves Saponification. No where do they state that they harvest this product from any specialized trees. :xyxthumbs
 
This conversation is starting to sound like everyone's taken a puff on one very large joint and traversed into left field.



white, #1 pale white, yellow, pale yellow, #1 pale white yellow.........



:D



Only on Autopia can a conversation like this occur and simultaneously make sense ;)
 
Spilchy said:
This conversation is starting to sound like everyone's taken a puff on one very large joint and traversed into left field.



white, #1 pale white, yellow, pale yellow, #1 pale white yellow.........



:D



Only on Autopia can a conversation like this occur and simultaneously make sense ;)
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2760weed.gif
Like, hey man I can totaly see where you are coming from.
 
I don't think we are getting anywhere with this. Let's cut to the chase shall we.



The only way to settle this argument is for one of you guys from Mother's to come out and say in a statement, that represents Mother's as an authority of carnauba wax, that pale yellow carnauba (white) is not the highest grade available, and that Zymol is misrepresenting their products.



I will, then, go to zymol and tell them that Mother's (or any authority) is countering your claim as being misleading. I will also ask for a refund for my wax. I'd like to see what Zymol would say to that.



Or, show me a clinical study where its claimed proof positive that pale yellow carnauba is not a pure form. I will listen to that.



But for now, I have a proven wax product that claims it has white carnauba. I have a certificate from this manfuacturer that guarantees its contents. More so, I have the results of said product that gives evidence to its attributes. This is the reference that I am basing it on.



Until I see credible countering evidence, then this topic is a moot point. Interesting, but moot.
 
rjstaaf said:
It is only one source but, it is from a refiner and they refer to a "white" carnauba that appears to be based on a refinement of #1 yellow. Is this what Zymol uses, I don't know. Just throwing it out there for discussion. :nixweiss



http://mail.roeper.de/web/hpr.nsf/0/68e393d1551bf764c1256d83003df497?OpenDocument
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Sorry for making this longer than necessary, but you were onto what I was talking about. Zymol, though, makes a distinction between #1 yellow and #1 white. You would have a point if they used white and #1 yellow interchangeably to describe the same product. Their lower priced (but still ridiculoulsy high) waxes contains primarily #1 yellow. The "estate" waxes begin to draw a distinction between #1 yellow and #1 white. If this helps this already long topic.......
 
lbls1



Authority? I don't think any car care company, unless they harvest and process carnauba, can claim to be an absolute authority. We make car care products, we do not process carnauba wax. We have searched high and low looking for this raw material and continue to ask every raw material supplier we can. To date we have had no luck in finding a raw material supplier that distributes a white carnauba that is directly processed from the leaves of the tree.



We bring a unique skill set of information and years of experience to this board for an educational purpose. We have not nor do we intend to pit our products against other products. It would be foolish for us to use our knowledge and experience in the manner you are requesting.



Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
I love this THREAD but to me what is more inportant then white yellow #1 or #2 is that MOTHER'S in there PURE carnuba can has a WIDE opening and for me it is easier to use.This my friends SCORES POINTS so we will leave it at that !!!!!!!!
 
Dennis H. said:
................

We bring a unique skill set of information and years of experience to this board for an educational purpose. We have not nor do we intend to pit our products against other products.

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These are sooo true statements. :bow :bow :bow

Keep them coming, gentlemen. I have learned a lot since joining this board, more than just wax on wax off. :xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs
 
Since you/re in Ontario with real winters, I'd go with a synthetic unless it won't seriously be in the elements. I use Carnaubas in the warmer weather and convert to a synthetic, current Klasse AIO topped by Blackfire topped by P21S/S100, 2 coats each. This combination held up to basically snow evern 3-5 days for 4 months. This year on one car I'm adding Klasse SG to my white car since it looked so good with Klasse.
 
This thread is all very interesting, but I just have one question:



How the heck do you pronounce 'carnauba'? :D



I've heard it 3 or 4 different ways.
 
I've heard it so many ways...cardoba, cabanna, cabananna, carbona and the list goes on.



I had one person correct the way I said it so I looked it up. Apparently we were both right.



kär-'n&-ba, -'nau-; "kär-n&-'ü-b& (out of the dictionary)

kar-knob-a "or" kar-noob-a



I say carnooba.
 
Its ok. We are at an stand still with this thread as is. I have a lot of respect for Mothers (I still use Mother's cleaner and polishes), so in hindsight I didn't necessarily mean to be insulting or put anyone on the spot.



On the other hand, I still feel strongly with my opinion, and I invite anyone that can show me the facts. I also have an extremely high regard for Zymol's product (despite its price), and they have proven me wrong in terms of my former opinion of them and their products.



So.........there we have it for now.



BTW: I used to say carnooba for a long time too, until someone pronounced it to me in person. It sounded really funny until I noticed the spelling of carnauba, then I said.....ohhh!
 
lbls1 said:
On the other hand, I still feel strongly with my opinion, and I invite anyone that can show me the facts.
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We have for 5 pages denoted facts about the non-existence of natural white carnauba. Vendors with access to distributors of raw carnaubas are not able to acquire this material. We have asked you to present non-advertising based proof but you have not been able to. You have refused to even ask Zymol about their claim ( Zymol website only allows questions from people the own their product. :confused: )

This is not about the quality or price of Zymol (not a factor here at Autopia because if something is truly a step above most here would pay the premium without hesitation) but about the usage of a term and description of their product stratification based on the quality and proportion of a non-existing natural "white" carnauba.

The game is not over. The ball is in your court. Question Zymol beyond their written claims. Hey, you might have some money coming to you. :nixweiss



PS. If you PM me your serial number of your Zymol product I will pose this natural "white" carnauba existence question to them.

:wavey
 
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