Working Menz PO85RD

[imported_Bunky]

Todd did a great writeup on this.
Check it out.
http://truthindetailing.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1789&highlight=jeweling

Todd uses a rotary and says do not overwork it. Now, it becomes when it is overworked. It definitely breaks down based upon speed, pressure, so maybe with a DA the work time is a bit longer.

 

[imported_BobbyG]

I've easily gone 9 passes with it on speed 6 with the 3401 getting lighter as I go towards the end. Paint looks great.

I've never counted but I must be in the same range Cory and agree, the paint looks great.

 

[PAR Detailing]

I love that write up by Todd. I have read it probably 5-6 times through. I have alot of 85rd but havent had a chance to use it in a long time!

 

[imported_Bunky]

I've never counted but I must be in the same range Cory and agree, the paint looks great.

Let me ask it this way. Corey says 9 passes and you tend to agree around that number. I found with a 6.5-in black pad / Flex DA speed 5 that if you use a minimal amount of polish it starts the clear transition around pass 4 to 5. After two more passes it is generally clear except sometimes on the perimeter.

The question is once it is clear how many passes do you continue to work the polish once it reaches this point since the transition depends on speed, amount of polish used, etc so just saying 9 may not be the best way to get a common benchmark.

 

[CEE DOG]

Let me ask it this way. Corey says 9 passes and you tend to agree around that number. I found with a 6.5-in black pad / Flex DA speed 5 that if you use a minimal amount of polish it starts the clear transition around pass 4 to 5. After two more passes it is generally clear except sometimes on the perimeter.

The question is once it is clear how many passes do you continue to work the polish once it reaches this point since the transition depends on speed, amount of polish used, etc so just saying 9 may not be the best way to get a common benchmark.

I'm surprised it is clear after 6-7 passes for you. You are right though, there are some factors that allow the product to break down at different speeds for us. My problem with answering you're question based on when its "clear" is I might have a different definition of clear then you depending on the lighting, paint color, etc. that we each see it break down under. Next time I use it I will pay much more attention to when I think it is clear. For my definition of clear I'm pretty sure I stop the machine there or run it 1-2 passes at the most with just the weight of the machine.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Hi Al, I got your PM last night, sorry that I couldn't reply to this thread until now. I have been out of town and my computer access has been (still is) limited.

How much can you work PO8RD once it turns clear?

I was experimenting last night and it seemed to have no ill effect.

Is there any benefit to continue to polish using lighter pressure? I really am not sure if there was any positive effect either but obviously did not spend a lot of time since I was trying to finish up the car (not even 1/4 way done doing it at night). I had just work it until it clears plus a few light passes.

With all of the 'non-rules' of polishing it is hard to say if there is a benefit to working a polish (in this case Menz 85rd) after it has broken down. For every person who has a benefit there are probably a near equal who find no difference.

Some time's I will work different processes next to each other and inspect them. If the results are equal then I often choose the process that delivers the best results in the shortest amount of time.

I also had run it at speed 5 with the flex and then decided to try speed 5.5 (just not quite 6) and it did work a little faster. Any harm at 6?

As opposed to a Random Orbital polisher (in which the pattern the machine creates is continuously changing) the flex is going to maintain a the same action regardless of speed. When I finish with a Flex I tend to start a speed six and use moderate pressure, then back the speed to 4.5-4 and reduce pressure slightly (since the pad is not moving as violently) for the last 2-3 passes over the section.

If you notice, I have doing some polishing but do not often try varying anything if the one routine gave satisfactory results. Now, I am getting curious about the variables to see if I can get better results.

I am of the opinion that we really start learning what works for us when we start varying our actions and are mindful to the results. No one process or set of instructions is ideal for every user, on ever car, in every climate. Process's are the foundation that allow us to tweak polishing into an art form, IMO.

That is what i wanted to hear. When it turns clear, it is virtually gone and the paint has a squeaky feel since it comes off so cleanly.

I just was not sure how much I should continue to refine. I did some tape offs to see comparisons but nothing really noticeable- maybe yes but not sure.

From a scientific stand-point, once the abrasives have broken down (keep in mind that they are still active, just very fine) they will be creating the highest gloss finish they are capable of. With diminishing abrasives (because not all abrasives break down at an even rate and also because some will stay attached to the pad and remain aggressive) a couple passes over the paint should ensure that all abrasives have broken down completely and the finish is at the highest level possible.

Since talking with Kevin Brown a lot, I will usually stop polishing once the polish appears to be broken down, brush out the pad (with the machine running) and then make two to three passes over the area at a reduced speed. The extra time, for me, is just additional insurance that the polish is fully refined that the surface is as clean as I could make it.

Let me ask it this way. Corey says 9 passes and you tend to agree around that number. I found with a 6.5-in black pad / Flex DA speed 5 that if you use a minimal amount of polish it starts the clear transition around pass 4 to 5. After two more passes it is generally clear except sometimes on the perimeter.

The question is once it is clear how many passes do you continue to work the polish once it reaches this point since the transition depends on speed, amount of polish used, etc so just saying 9 may not be the best way to get a common benchmark.

For me personally, I would polish until clean, then clean the pad out and make a couple more additional passes at a slow speed. Again it is insurance, since we sometimes cannot see the true condition of the paint we are polishing.

However, as a devil's advocate, Menzerna is designed to work quickly at the OEM level, so at least by the official estimation we are over working the product. It has been my experience that while I rarely get a higher quality finish, I am able to be more confident in the results that I do get.

The biggest factor in getting PO85rd to breakdown properly for me is to clean the pad constantly and to switch to a clean pad often.

 

[imported_Bunky]

Thanks for the feedback. I spent a lot of time yesterday (was out of town so could not attend your event) but got back late Saturday so spent Sunday in the garage with PO85RD

I learned (some relearning) during my many hour session

1. If you over prime a pad it is useless, takes a year to breakdown - start clean, no pre lube, no priming

2. Use as little as possible - 3 very small dabs for a 16x20 area. Spread then add a dab more if it does not spread evenly (need good light)

3. Keep it clean after every panel (but now I will try before final buffing on each panel based upon your suggestion). If you do not, the pad gets fouled and cannot be cleaned so have plenty of pads. They are also easier to clean.

 

[imported_Dubbin1]

I was just working with 85rd and the flex lastnight, it was clear after 8 passes. I was playing around a bit and didn't notice any difference in the paint working it after it went clear.

 

[David Fermani]

For me personally, I would polish until clean, then clean the pad out and make a couple more additional passes at a slow speed. Again it is insurance, since we sometimes cannot see the true condition of the paint we are polishing.

The biggest factor in getting PO85rd to breakdown properly for me is to clean the pad constantly and to switch to a clean pad often.

This is worth $1,000,000!!! I can't wait when I see your discovery pop up on other forums as their own. This works great BTW.

 

[imported_porta]

This is worth $1,000,000!!! I can't wait when I see your discovery pop up on other forums as their own. This works great BTW.

Works great, but I mostly use it with Power finish. Polish it properly with a polishing pad and then switch to a finishing pad. I have done this for a long time as well, and I think Todd already gave it a name? but spur it and then continue is maybee a little different techniq then the one I mentioned.