Rumors of GM buying Chrysler group

[paul34]

I don't think the Big 2.5 will just disappear. Chrysler might, but Ford and GM will stick around, even if it isn't in the US. If anything, they might leave the US for good... they do relatively well overseas, where they actually make good cars. Why they can't do the same here is beyond me, and quite frankly, a LOT of other people all over the web.



I mean, have you seen Ford's European models? I would NOT mind driving a Focus Euro spec or a Mondeo! Seeing one, and especially the inside, you really wouldn't believe its a Ford - but it is.

 

[EdLancer]

I don't think the Big 2.5 will just disappear. Chrysler might, but Ford and GM will stick around, even if it isn't in the US. If anything, they might leave the US for good... they do relatively well overseas, where they actually make good cars. Why they can't do the same here is beyond me, and quite frankly, a LOT of other people all over the web.



I mean, have you seen Ford's European models? I would NOT mind driving a Focus Euro spec or a Mondeo! Seeing one, and especially the inside, you really wouldn't believe its a Ford - but it is.

I just don't know, but if I compare a Mitsubshi models built in Japan and models built in the US, the fit and finish is just not there ! If they had the Mitsu Eclispe built in Japan it would be a hot seller, instead it was built in the US and now its a mediocre seller. Its not hard to notice the fit and finish let say a Chevy Cobalt and a Hyundai Accent, there is no comparision. Look at the inside of the doors, hood and trunk assemblies, on US made cars up to Cadillacs there is no sealing or caulking between the folded metal which leads to an ugly finish, snags your hand and prone to rust and that of the fit and finish of the Accent. To me the fit and finish of the lowest priced Korean car has a better fit and finish then a top of the line Cadillac, its just unreal ! It has to do with quality and engineering in design, materials selected and a trained and eager workforce that is diligent to details. I remember back in the early 90's GM's Corsica had storage bins for CDs while it came with a cassette player it was one of the funny points pointed out by automotive journalists at the time, so its like the head doesn't talk to the arms when they put the cars together or on the Olds Ninety-Eight, a couple dozen had rear badges put on backwards to read Eight-Ninety. I have seen owners of US built cars switching to imports and never coming back, but I have never seen someone driving an import switching back to an US built product. This might be different in the US for patriotic reasons, but other than that, I don't see a bright future for the Big 3.

 

[SpoiledMan]

If they had the Mitsu Eclispe built in Japan it would be a hot seller, instead it was built in the US and now its a mediocre seller.

I think the fact that it's a pig has more to do with it than where it's built. It used to be a car that was easily modified for more HP and now it's got the "corporate" V6 that's just not entertaining at all.

 

[SpoiledMan]

You took it the wrong way, what I was saying was it was funny that after the merger Chrysler shot up in quality and Benz tanked, wheres years before the older Benz were built like bank vaults.

Just to clear up what my point is. One had nothing to do with the other. The ML was an attempt to compete in an area that was new for MB and the cut the costs in the wrong places. One of the *main* problems was that new plant in Alabama with new workers working on a new product. From what I've seen in the last vs. current generation of the S Class, they have taken care of the quality issues and I HOPE the reliability issues.

 

[paul34]

I just don't know, but if I compare a Mitsubshi models built in Japan and models built in the US, the fit and finish is just not there ! If they had the Mitsu Eclispe built in Japan it would be a hot seller, instead it was built in the US and now its a mediocre seller. Its not hard to notice the fit and finish let say a Chevy Cobalt and a Hyundai Accent, there is no comparision. Look at the inside of the doors, hood and trunk assemblies, on US made cars up to Cadillacs there is no sealing or caulking between the folded metal which leads to an ugly finish, snags your hand and prone to rust and that of the fit and finish of the Accent. To me the fit and finish of the lowest priced Korean car has a better fit and finish then a top of the line Cadillac, its just unreal ! It has to do with quality and engineering in design, materials selected and a trained and eager workforce that is diligent to details. I remember back in the early 90's GM's Corsica had storage bins for CDs while it came with a cassette player it was one of the funny points pointed out by automotive journalists at the time, so its like the head doesn't talk to the arms when they put the cars together or on the Olds Ninety-Eight, a couple dozen had rear badges put on backwards to read Eight-Ninety. I have seen owners of US built cars switching to imports and never coming back, but I have never seen someone driving an import switching back to an US built product. This might be different in the US for patriotic reasons, but other than that, I don't see a bright future for the Big 3.

Absolutely, I agree with you. Just as another example... ever since they starting production of the Camry here, quality has gone down a lot. Is it because of incompetent American workers? Well no, we all know that.



I think its just the "cost cutting" people try to do here, and as a result, the quality of materials and fit and finish suffer. I think American management just isn't the same as Asian management.



All I'll say is this: if they built my "cheap" tC here in the states (it's 100% Japanese built), I doubt the quality would be what it is. Sure, maybe its not a Lexus or non 3-series BMW, but for the price, its pretty darn good. I've been in "cheap" cars like the older Saturns, or a Focus... well, I'm sure you have too so I don't need to comment here



The potential is here to make great cars... there's just something missing here. I don't know what it is. Quality is improving, undoubtedly, but its still not "up to par." Just looking at reviews anyone can see that (I'm not talking about publications which get paid off by the manufacturers or "awards" like JD Power). Cars like the Fusion show that Ford is capable of improving... but instead, they release vehicles like the Edge... I mean, honestly, what in the world? It's too heavy for decent on road travel, and its obviously no good at off-road use.



Crossovers make no sense. They're supposed to be the best of both worlds, but they can't do either decently at all. I don't think people want that...

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I think its just the "cost cutting" people try to do here, and as a result, the quality of materials and fit and finish suffer. I think American management just isn't the same as Asian management.

Huh? It IS Asian management! Are you suggesting that Toyota has no control of/say in how their plants here are operated? Or that there are no Japanese executives working here? If you are, then you've never dealt with a Japanese company here.

 

[imported_Surfer]

Just to clear up what my point is. One had nothing to do with the other. The ML was an attempt to compete in an area that was new for MB and the cut the costs in the wrong places. One of the *main* problems was that new plant in Alabama with new workers working on a new product. From what I've seen in the last vs. current generation of the S Class, they have taken care of the quality issues and I HOPE the reliability issues.

Hope so, our 03' E55 was a pos, had it lemon lawed, and 04' S55 we got rid of about a year later as it was back and forth to the shop constantly. Though even with our bad experience I find myself attracted to the ML63:xyxthumbs.



Though I'll say U.S. makers have really improved quality the last couple years, we have an 05' Lexus LX470 and I think the new GM trucks and their interior is pretty much right there with our Lex.

 

[EdLancer]

Alot of people have a different understanding of the word "Quality"



Most think that the more expensive a product is, the more "Quality" it is, this is as far from the truth as you can get !



Most "Quality" professionals, myself included define quality as "When a product or service is said to perform as it was intended to while at the same time delighting the customer is said to be of Quality" and I would also add at the lowest cost too ! So you can imagine when I am delighted at finding "Quality" items at my local Dollarama that every Joe can afford, it is like a bit of "socialism" coming to the good ole USofA. If you would take inventory of what every American owns, I guarantee that 75% of what they own is made in China or overseas.



MB's problems started when they started contracting stuff to India because of high German labour. The German management is deligent, but their workforce is no better then those in the US. The only way German products get the so called good reputation is that they inspect the s**t out of it at the end of the assembly line, leading to added expense of the product, the average MB vehicle goes back 6.5X for rework before being let out of the factory and zero times at Toyota, this is the difference in cost between a Lexus and a MB vehicle.



As for the Big 3, their problems lie in their design and selection of materials and the high cost of their labour, put those non-value added ingredients together and you get garbage that costs alot !



As for your own money, would you dish out $XXXXX amount to buy an Big 3 built car knowing that it will have reliability problems and low resale value while knowing that an competitve oversea products that is the benchmark of the industry costs the same or less ? I don't think that there is many too Americans or Canadians that will, don't get me wrong, I am a staunchly patriotic, but when I see my hard earn dollars flying out the window for an inferior product and companies that are hard headed to listen and produce what the customer wants that is when I do a 180 without much thought.

 

[paul34]

Huh? It IS Asian management! Are you suggesting that Toyota has no control of/say in how their plants here are operated? Or that there are no Japanese executives working here? If you are, then you've never dealt with a Japanese company here.

no no, wasn't suggesting that. I know that Japanese companies keep a tight "leash" on their international operations. Just trying to propose some theories

 

[TrueDetailer]

If it is true maybe its a plan to retain the #1 producing auto brand in the world? Or whatever the title is called that toyota is getting close to taking over.



Gonna be a sad day when it happens.



You know what pisses me off? When i see Support our troops stickers on the back of hondas, toyotas,benzs, and the like. These people act as if they're so patriotic but yet they drive some jap import. I just don't get it. If you're proud to be and amrican than you should be driving a chevy or a ford. I don't get the big hype on these imports, i've rode in a few and even driven a few. And they just can't compare to a chevy or ford.

 

[SpoiledMan]

You know what pisses me off? When i see Support our troops stickers on the back of hondas, toyotas,benzs, and the like. These people act as if they're so patriotic but yet they drive some jap import. I just don't get it. If you're proud to be and amrican than you should be driving a chevy or a ford. I don't get the big hype on these imports, i've rode in a few and even driven a few. And they just can't compare to a chevy or ford.

ALL of the manufacturers employ many people right here in the USA. I honestly cant see a problem with that. They have to have dealers, service technicians, porters, salesmen and so forth.

 

[WSUcommuter]

You know what pisses me off? When i see Support our troops stickers on the back of hondas, toyotas,benzs, and the like. These people act as if they're so patriotic but yet they drive some jap import. I just don't get it. If you're proud to be and amrican than you should be driving a chevy or a ford. I don't get the big hype on these imports, i've rode in a few and even driven a few. And they just can't compare to a chevy or ford.

I don't see the connection between an American's ability to spend his or her own money where they so choose and support of the US military.



Some Jap import? Honda builds cars 30 minutes north of me. Dodge Ram extended cabs are built in Mexico. Which is an import?



I'm proud to be an "Amrican" who until recently owned Chevrolets since driving. I got tired of nickel-and-dime ownership of my GM trucks. The interiors sounded like they were held together by rubber bands. I replaced virtually every electrical control/component on my last S-10 over the course of my ownership, and all of the GM replacement parts had "Made in Mexico" stamped on them.



Perhaps instead of riding or driving a few, you should try owning one.



Oh and my most current vehicle is a Ford Mustang GT, about as American as apple pie. We'll see how she holds up.

 

[azenthusiast]

ALL of the manufacturers employ many people right here in the USA. I honestly cant see a problem with that. They have to have dealers, service technicians, porters, salesmen and so forth.

Plus, most Toyotas are made in Kentucky, whereas most domestic brands are heading out of the country. Not to mention, maybe thats what they could afford. I would never spend $50K on the new Suburban and I'd rather drive an import than a Focus.

 

[a.k.a. Patrick]

JPMorgan (JPM), the US investment bank advising on the future of Chrysler, will formally kick off a £7 billion (roughly $13 billion) auction by sending information memorandums to a number of potential suitors as early as this week, The Times has learned.



The bank is to release data that include private information on Chrysler, such as figures on its current trading.



Click here to visit FOXBusiness.com's Autos Center.



It is also understood that a number of interested bidders started basic due diligence on Chrysler weeks before DaimlerChrysler (DCX), its parent company, said that all options for its US car firm were being considered.



General Motors (GM) is already in preliminary talks with DaimlerChrysler about an acquisition of all or part of Chrysler but is particularly interested in its Jeep and Dodge marques.



It is also thought that Hyundai, the Korean car manufacturer, is interested in joining potential bidders. Hyundai is said to be interested in securing access to Chrysler’s lucrative dealer network.

A DaimlerChrysler spokesman would only reiterate chairman Dieter Zetsche’s comments last week that nothing was being excluded in an attempt to find “the best solution� for Chrysler.



Dr. Zetsche is cutting 13,000 jobs in America, along with 15 percent of the dealerships in an effort to revive the US giant.



A takeover by Hyundai, which makes cars under its own brand and controls Kia, would be a major achievement for American business and for the struggling Motown.



Chrysler has recently broken ground by opening two factories in Europe and North America and hopes to become one of the world’s five biggest car manufacturers. It currently sits in seventh place.



Hyundai already has a link with Chrysler through a three-way engine alliance with Mitsubishi and a deal would be in line with the ambitions of the chairman, Chung Mong-Koo.



China’s two carmaking powerhouses, Chery and SAIC, are also thought to be eyeing developments. SAIC failed in an attempt to buy MG Rover two years ago.



Banking sources close to events said last night that talks between DaimlerChrysler and potential bidders for Chrysler were at an early stage.



C R A P !!!!!!!!!!!

Source:

 

[azenthusiast]

If a Chinese company buys Chrysler, looks like I'll never be getting a Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep. I dont see why Daimler is ditching it so quickly. What they should be doing is thinning out the model lines and making it to the point where each company only makes one specific type of vehicle. Jeep=suvs, Chrysler=cars, Dodge=trucks and vans

 

[paul34]

If a Chinese company buys Chrysler, looks like I'll never be getting a Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep. I dont see why Daimler is ditching it so quickly. What they should be doing is thinning out the model lines and making it to the point where each company only makes one specific type of vehicle. Jeep=suvs, Chrysler=cars, Dodge=trucks and vans

Didn't Chrysler post a few billion dollar loss? I think Dr. Z had enough, they've already spent too much money trying to save this company and it hasn't worked.



They're just trying to cut their losses while they can.

 

[imported_Surfer]

I will say this, we've owned plenty of foreign and American vehicles. We had an 95' 993 that unfortunetley sold, but was a ripping car, bored and stroked 3.8, lightened up etc, was driven extremely hard and even with the modifications never let us down. On the other hand we've had bad experience with BMW and Mercedes and Acura, 03' E55 lemon lawed pile of crap, 04' S55 sold just to get rid of. Back when the last gen Acura TL Type-S came out that was my sisters first car, in less then 20K miles we went through 3 transmissions that looked like they were built to barely handle the power of a Civic, and numerous rattles and creaks, just felt like a cheap car. That's just some of them.



Our American vehicles have never really given us issues. I still have an 00' V8 Mountaineer that I had gotten new back in high school 6-7 years ago and now have 95K miles on and driven hard, yet it's held up perfectly, never any trouble or anything, just regular maintenance I also had an 03' V8 Mountaineer that I had cam swap, ported heads, headers, full exhaust and not cats, dyno tuned etc, drove the piss outta it, fun truck, no issues either even with the mods. I almost swapped in an 03' Cobra engine and twin-screw charger. For those that don't know, Mountaineer is just sister version of the Explorer.



Now is my truck as luxurious as our LX470, hell no, that thing is built like it's carved out of a solid block of steel. However my truck also didn't cost 70K. But for what it is I love it, comfortable, leather interior even barely looks used especially for 95K miles. You can tell Benz or BMW has better fit and finish, but ours were constantly in the shop. However in the case of the Landcruiser/LX470, I know people who wheel them and some that have over 100K miles will barely emit a creek or groan even off road when flexing, that IME is true build quality, probably the most solid vehicle ever built.



But even with our bad experiences with other makes I'm not like others that are like "oh I'll never own one of their cars again", I still want an ML63 even after our Benz experience. However I'd pry take an SRT-8 Jeep over it now even though the Jeep isn't as refined, I like "rawer" feeling cars and let me tell you that Jeep is a friggen blast to drive.

 

[velobard]

I've owned a mix of American and imports. I buy a car because it fits my needs at the time, not because of where it's built. I've had great luck and bad luck with either choice, depending on the car. I'm very happy with my current Chrysler, it drives great and is very reliable. To the comment of preferring an import over a Focus, my wife used to have a Focus and I was quite impressed with how nice it was to drive. Nice ride, felt solid, handled well, good power, just an all around impressive little sedan. It kinda surprised me how much I liked it.



I have a personal opinion that one part of the reason Chrysler is losing money right now is because of some business decisions made in Germany. Of course, Chrysler has done that sort of thing very well on their own in the past or they wouldn't be in this situation. I still think they're a company with some value to offer, but they need to get back on track. I don't exactly relish Asian ownership, but then again for awhile Lambo was owned by an outfit in Indonesia.

 

[Tasty]

If it is true maybe its a plan to retain the #1 producing auto brand in the world? Or whatever the title is called that toyota is getting close to taking over.



Gonna be a sad day when it happens.



You know what pisses me off? When i see Support our troops stickers on the back of hondas, toyotas,benzs, and the like. These people act as if they're so patriotic but yet they drive some jap import. I just don't get it. If you're proud to be and amrican than you should be driving a chevy or a ford. I don't get the big hype on these imports, i've rode in a few and even driven a few. And they just can't compare to a chevy or ford.

What planet do you live on? All Accords sold in the US are made in the US, and I think it's the same way with Camrys too. If you think that Chevy and/or Ford really make vehicles that Honda/Toyota can't keep up with then why aren't they flying off the lots? The Saturn Aura is the first GM car in a long time to get any kind of accolades from the press upon its release. I will say that GM interior quality is NOWHERE NEAR the likes of Honda / Toyota / or even Mazda for that matter.

 

[imported_Picus]

People who drive imports can't support troops? Awesome.



I guess TrueDetailer is going to stop buying all things not made in America then? :chuckle: