Ridiculous honda paint..

I

imported_d00t

New member
So I'm still in the process of this detail of another honda S2000, and I was looking forward to showcasing my skills on a black car, with tons of swirls. ANd why not a small honda? it's got soft paint so it should be a relatively easy job, right? Wrong. I now know why we detailers never make generalizations of paint. Not only is the paint hard when it wants to be hard, it's extremely soft when it wants to be too. What does that mean? I tried to go at it with everything I had, (which isn't a ton). I ended up settling on a 4-step of PowerGloss with PFW, SIP with Green, 106FA with white, and 85rd with Black.



My question is this though: How do you know when you are about to strike through? Some of the time while I was polishing the fender, and door, I would get this noise like a really deep loud whistle while going over apart of the paint. I used to get it when I used th PC, but I figured that was just the pressure applied, but I didn't want to continue until I knew whether or not this is normal on the rotary? It would have that "whistle" and then I noticed it would get a little more tough for the rotary to "glide" over the surface. Normal? Never experienced it before.



Will have a C&B up when I finish on tuesday.. 11 hours into the detail and all I have to show for it is a hood, fender, and one door. (only exterior too). I'm a little discouraged, and also spent!
 
Sounds like maybe you were buffing the product dry and it was essentially the pad directly on the paint- is that possibly it?
 
Lumadar said:
Sounds like maybe you were buffing the product dry and it was essentially the pad directly on the paint- is that possibly it?
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Could very well be. So in that case, just wipe dry, and then go over it again with another application?
 
What kind of technique are you using? Sounds to me like you have some bad pad selection going on there. 11 hours on just the hood and fender scares me if you're using any sort of polish. There's only so much clear on these things. I know there's people on here that claim 20+ hours for a detail. I've yet to comprehend what takes so long. If you actually "polished" on any car for that long you'd be down to the paint by then. So I have to assume something else is actaully taking place in all that time. Which is why I ask about the technique being used. maybe it'll shed some light on what's actually happening and why you're not seeing the results you should be by now.
 
Jakerooni said:
What kind of technique are you using? Sounds to me like you have some bad pad selection going on there. 11 hours on just the hood and fender scares me if you're using any sort of polish. There's only so much clear on these things. I know there's people on here that claim 20+ hours for a detail. I've yet to comprehend what takes so long. If you actually "polished" on any car for that long you'd be down to the paint by then. So I have to assume something else is actaully taking place in all that time. Which is why I ask about the technique being used. maybe it'll shed some light on what's actually happening and why you're not seeing the results you should be by now.
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I agree fully. I do have a fear my technique isn't what it should be, but there's no one around to really "show me" how to get it down right.



The best way to put my technique in to words:



I first prep the panel (obviously) with claying the entire car. Then I tape off everything. Polishing: I put the pad on the buffer (i use a metabo) and draw a 2 inch line of polish for say, 1/4 of a hood. Then I "pick up" the polish with the pad at speed one (700rpm) and spread it for two passes, back forth to the center of the hood, and the back/forth to where I started. Then I kick it up to 2.5-3 (1200rpm) and then do one back/forth, and on the way back to the starting point, I kick it up to 3.5-4(around 1700-1800rpm) then go back to starting point, then back to center of the hood (total of two passes) then back down to 2.5-3 for the pass back to the edge (or starting point) of the hood.



And when I say 11 hours, a lot of that was testing too. I spent 2 hours just trying to find the right combo. But once I found the combo and used it on the fender, that took me almost an hour to do.



My process on the fender:

I do half of the top of the fender, and then the other half since it's a long fender. I draw a 1.5" or so line of polish, and use that for half the fender with the PFW+PG at 1300-1800-1300 in the same technique as above but for the fender. Then I step down to SIP+Green (although I think my CCS pads are backwards, the green is more porous and rough than orange??) with the same speed technique as above. Then I go to PO106FA on white with 1200-1600-1200 for a total of 5 back and forth movements. Then down to PO85rd+black pad and do it 1200-1600-1200 for 5 passes as well.



I hope the describes my technique a little bit? I REALLY wish there was people in my area willing to let me do a car with them so I can see what I'm doing right/wrong
 
Had to read that line by line and think about what was happening. If I'm reading it right your process seems to be ok. Are we applying pressure at all or just letting the machine do it's work? I'm leaning again towards bad product and pad selection on this. I know I'm different than alot of people on here but I don't really beleive in Foam for correction. I only use foam for my final stages of micropolish and applying wax. I've always gotten better results with correction from wool pads. (they have just as many styles and cuts for wool as there are foam options so again it's a crap shoot picking out the right combo) But instead of buying something new lets see if we can work with what you got available. Sounds like you have a decent set of foam pads at your disposal. What kind of products do you have? And any chance of pics of what you're working on? maybe it's not what you think it is. Holograms and swirls can actually come from several sources including bad wheeling techniques to product not properly broken down and removed amoung a couple of options. If I was out in CA. I'd be happy to stop by I know there has to be some top notch guys out there.
 
Is this the car's original paint? I don't ever remember working on hondas that difficult. Only my friend's cheaply resprayed civic. That paint could not even be wet sanded it was so soft the block would just stick to the paint and I couldn't get it to slide back and forth smoothly at times the block would just stop mid stroke and my hand would slide right off.
 
Jakerooni said:
I know there's people on here that claim 20+ hours for a detail. I've yet to comprehend what takes so long. If you actually "polished" on any car for that long you'd be down to the paint by then. So I have to assume something else is actaully taking place in all that time.
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With all due respect Jakerooni, the amount of time is all dependent on what you and your clients objectives are. I could easily spend 20+ hours polishing a black vehicle with medium swirls if the owner wanted a permanant correction. If you're in the turn em' and burn em' environment, it doesn't make sense too much at all when a quick 2 step glaze will suffice. Not knocking that stance 1 bit, because I've experienced both sides and love doing volume work. When using products like Menzerna with long work times, it's virtually impossible to do each single polishing step correctly in less than 5-6 hours a piece. That's not even including the time to correct any defects which is a whole nother time frame.
 
I'm uploading the pictures now. I think you're right about the foam pads just maring the paint even more. After I PFW it's really smooth and has the typical fine scratches left behind by the wool, but when I hit it with Orange and SIP, it seems like the RIDS come right back.. Pics will be up shortly of where I'm at right now
 
qwertydude said:
Is this the car's original paint? I don't ever remember working on hondas that difficult. Only my friend's cheaply resprayed civic. That paint could not even be wet sanded it was so soft the block would just stick to the paint and I couldn't get it to slide back and forth smoothly at times the block would just stop mid stroke and my hand would slide right off.
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That's what I was thinking, but there's no signs of a repaint anywhere..
 
damn dude, I did a blue S2000 with a process of HTEC/lc orange, IP/megs yellow/pc, FpII/lc blue/pc and it came out 95% is about 5 hours - with tires and wheels, wash and clay



I dont wipe between steps though...I just apply compound/polish over the residue - learned that one from a couple respected detailers on here and it has really cut down on time and improved the process/detail!
 
Here's before:



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DSC00136.jpg




And after on the hood(JUST hood no where else), still marring after PG+PFW, SIP+Orange, 106FA+White, and 85RD+Black. I'm stumped :(:



DSC00137.jpg




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DSC00139.jpg
 
Just to reort a little bit there dave I've done quite a bit of full corrections and I've never taken that long on any detail ever. I have had a few take over 10 hours so I know it a very time consuming process. But i stand by my statement. If you're actually polishing paint for 20+ hours there no possible way you're not burning through the clearcoat and paint in that timeframe. There has to be something else going on other than polishing. The only thing that ever comes to mind when someone mentions that long of time frame is their are using sub par equipment or their products of choice just don't work that well to get the desired results. Which is no big deal because time is the very last thing anyone should be concerned about when properly correcting paint. And as long as the results are eventually achieved the ends always justify the means. The comment was no slam to anyone or anything. It was simply a statement of physics... You simply cannot cause heat and friction to a surface for that long and not cause damage. So something else is obviously happening.
 
Wow. A complete 3 step correction from start to finish in 5 hours? I'd love to see it done so I can learn. Heck, I spend 2 hours(at a minimum) just prepping a car.
 
Ugh.. Again Dave.. I really do love you're post on here but just because you take longer than someone else are you seriously saying he's not doing it right? Sounds like the verge of calling that guy a hack artist without actually saying it. I have no issues doing a 3 step process to 90-95% correction in 5 hours. With the proper tools and equipment it's very very easily acheivable. If I really milk something like a simple 3 step it might take me about 6 hours. But I have to take a lot of breaks and such in the action to draw something out that long.
 
Jakerooni said:
What kind of technique are you using? Sounds to me like you have some bad pad selection going on there. 11 hours on just the hood and fender scares me if you're using any sort of polish. There's only so much clear on these things. I know there's people on here that claim 20+ hours for a detail. I've yet to comprehend what takes so long. If you actually "polished" on any car for that long you'd be down to the paint by then. So I have to assume something else is actaully taking place in all that time. Which is why I ask about the technique being used. maybe it'll shed some light on what's actually happening and why you're not seeing the results you should be by now.
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So does this statement apply to the likes of Rydawg and TH0001?
 
Different strokes for different folks. I too came from a high volume shop environment doing 30+ complete details daily and would never have thought anyone could possibly spend more than a full day reconditioning a vehicle(unless it was a complete train wreck). But to say that anyone who spends more than 20 hrs polishing paint is burning it(or removing unacceptable amounts of clear) isn't quite accurate. There's countless Pros here(including me) that do multi-day details regularly and I'm quite sure they aren't burning any paint. Infact, Rydawg isn't even 1/2 way done with an exterior of a black Ferrari and I think he's only into it 40 hrs so far and I can gaurantee he's not using sub par products, equipment or processes. When I do a top shelf polish job I take my time, but still work at a constant pace making sure every square inch of paint gets polished. I can't imagine another experienced detailer could do the exact same level of work in a 1/4 of the time. Maybe some people's idea of detailing is different? This work is very subjective.
 
DOOT - maybe hit it with PFW and IP instead of PG...work it a little longer, then hit it with orange pad and IP again, then IP and white...see if that helps you out...you should be left with only deeper rids(if any) and lots of haze after PFW on softer paints.



maybe the car was repainted and the owner either isnt telling you or doesnt know.
 
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