Reliable Luxury rides

Not to mention what are considered "problems". A report I read this summer listed the Hummer H2 and the Mini Cooper 1st and 2nd respectively with regard to the most problems in initial quality of all vehicles. If you read more closely you realized the reason was because the survey counted "poor gas mileage" and "wind noise" as reported from Hummer owners as problems. and the Mini was cited for things like lack of storage space and road noise and a stiff ride. If you took these type of complaints out of the equation these two vehicles would not have been on the list. Reports like this are completely useless.
 
bet993 said:
Not to mention what are considered "problems". A report I read this summer listed the Hummer H2 and the Mini Cooper 1st and 2nd respectively with regard to the most problems in initial quality of all vehicles. If you read more closely you realized the reason was because the survey counted "poor gas mileage" and "wind noise" as reported from Hummer owners as problems. and the Mini was cited for things like lack of storage space and road noise and a stiff ride. If you took these type of complaints out of the equation these two vehicles would not have been on the list. Reports like this are completely useless.
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I side with Brian on this one too, unless you know all the reasons why a vehicle was rated poorly you really can't make good decisions. Using the internet as a tool I would visit forums for each of the makes your considering, read what owners have written and then make an educated decision. Also consider the demographics of the forum before considering it a good source. IMO the older you get the less tolerant you are to vehicle problems......unless of course you're restoring an old car.;)
 
One more thing is some enthusiasts may be biased toward their particular model as well. If they really like the car or manufacturer overall, in order for it to get better reviews, they may or may not report all of the problems they had with it to the survey sponsor. I think there is probably more of this than we would think with favored manufacturer rivals and such.
 
Don't forget that these ratings are based on the entire line...

With benz there are more problems with the entry level

C-class cars than there are with the flagship S-class.

Look at TSB and recalls for the differant cars and you will see what I mean.

Kevin



'98 S 420
 
well i took a glance over at the bmw message board based on the suggestion from here and let me tell you ALOT of people have all different types of problems with these 740il, many of them can leave you stranded others just very annoying and expensive to fix. you would think for all this money you pay they can at least make a window go up and down or a sunroof that works properly. then they have a host of cooling problems, warning lights, noises,



they say there COMPLEX cars, whats so complex about them lexus and infiniti have all the neat gadgets and similiar technology and they work, the windows work, radio works, trunks open, i dont see why it so hard to design a car where you cant even get the trunk to function right or a window motor to last more than 20k miles. who knows, i think they make alot of money on service and repairs at these dealers, almost as if there designed to break at certain intervals, who n eeds a car thats always in a shop thats not enjoyable at all.
 
One thought on the forums like the BMW board. Whenever you ask about problems you will get hundreds. It is the same on the Porsche Boards I frequent. You read these horror stories about spending thousands on repairs. However, realize that many people just go to the boards for help. No one really just post...."everything is fine, my car is great". Just the nature of the boards. It amazes me the stories I read about on 993 board at the Rennlist, however, in reality the 911 from 95-98 are very reliable. The sampling of the boards is so small for the actual number of cars on the road that you have to consider this when reading. They are great to figure out if there are trends or specific weaknesses to the cars (which most cars have some type of potential weakness). Just food for thought.
 
Brian is accurate in his statement. I frequent Subaru boards a lot now because of our new Subie, and I see nothing but complaints. Then I read that the guys have made 100 mods before the end of the first week!



One thing many people don't think about is that for every car owner on the internet, there are 10 who don't have a computer, do not surf the web, or do not post.
 
So for those of you who feel that forums are not a great source of information on a car, where would you suggest going? Not trying to flame, just trying to learn for future purchases.:)
 
I think the forums are an excellent source of information on cars when one is considering purchasing one, as I would never buy a vehicle without reading various forums on it.



That said, you can't take the information as gospel. You must evaluate the information critically to determine what you are finding out. I find that researching from the angle of "I am thinking about getting ______, what should I look for to get a good example" is much more effective than asking about what problems someone has had. Generic questions about "reliability" are also loaded questions that will yield marginal at best answers. The common answers are usually "yes" because everyone on the board owns the vehicl and/or you will also get all the list of things that have gone wrong with someones particular car. Of course you will get the person who had a bad experience with the car and they will claim you should get _____ instead because that is what they ended up with.



Asking what to look for generally gets more intelligent responses, like "take a look at the lower A arms, as they have tendacy to fail" or check and see if the the owner upgraded the DME because there was a batch that was faulty, or avoid cars with a build date between X and Y because of known problems with engine unless it has been replaced by warranty (i.e. early E46 M3's). What ever the answer seach the archives for threads dealing with the issues.



You also have to look at the demographics of the boards. The 993 board at Rennlist has dramatically changed in the 3 years I have been reading and posting. There is still a wealth of valuable information but it is mixed up with much more crap now. There are more "what wheels look best on my car" and "what color combo is best", "how can I lower my car", etc. Also realizing that modifications, more power and razor sharp handling seem to be the norm for those who frequent the boards. All good but it really doesn't help for car that may not have these modifications.



You have to read the boards for a while to really get a sense of what is going one. Similar to this board. I notice that many of the "old guard" mention how things have really changed and the information is watered down. There is still good information here but it buried within "what pads should I buy for my PC?" and "Is Zaino or Klasse better". You just have dig more.
 
Good response Brian.:bow



BTW anyone interested in purchasing an MB should definitely take a look at mercedeshop. It leans more towards the technical side of the Mercedes rather than the mods and appearance.;)
 
i found mercedes problems . com to be interesting, seems very coincidental that so many people have discovered identical problems thoughout the various lines



ive defintely found the baords very helpful as finding out the USUAL things that go wrong on these cars. that was a very helpful tip
 
As for JD Power's problems per 100 cars it is by individual model, not by brand (they have a seperate listing by brand). Basically the Initial Quality doesn't have anything to do with reliability, it has to do with overall satisfaction with the car at the initial ownership change. The "problems" are things people say they dont like, such as bad cuholders, uncomfortable seats etc. Its a indicator of how satisfied people are with their new cars...



As for the forums, we just had a discussion about this on the Lexus Owners Club board (Frankie, and any other Lexus owner or non Lexus owner alike come on over, we have a real nice community and forum, still fairly small us.lexusownersclub.com) about the ES Transmission. A lot of people have been saying that the ES has a serious transmission problem (which it doesnt) because of all the posts on the board. As I was telling them, you see a LOT of problems and concerns posted on those forums for a couple of reasons:



1. More people set out to find forums when they're having problems then when they're not.



2. Once a problem is discussed once or twice its on the search engine. In our case anyone who searched for "Lexus transmission" got our site, giving the false impression of a dire situation.



3. People on forums tend to be far more critical and nitpicky than people who aren't



So, while forums are an excellent resource when getting info, and just great for car enthusiasts they aren't always a true representation of whats really going on with a car.
 
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