Reliable Luxury rides
- Thread starter frankie
- Start date
Frankie said:
Toyota and Lexus didn't have a problem with the engines, it was the people who didn't follow maintanence schedules.
The Lexus 4.0 v8 (The code slipped my mind...) is bulletproof. I can't say much about it! Its just great! I have 240 000km on my 92' sc400 and the engine runs smoother than most new cars. People on ClubLexus.com have their SC's and LS's up in the 200 000+ MILES.
Lexus quality is second to none.
Frankie,
I have a 1999 740iL I love it! :xyxthumbs I purchased it about 2 1/2 years ago certified pre-owned with 28K miles on it. So far, I have not had any real problems with the car. I had some minor issues with the windshield seal and the sunroof seal that was replaced under warranty. There are some items that are a bit costly that need replacing with the E38, (7 Series BMW, 1995 through 2001). I suggest you go to the E38 board on roadfly to do some research and post some questions.
Here is the link to the E38 Board at Roadfly
Send me a pm if you have any more questions.
Cheers,
My Black 7 Series
I have a 1999 740iL I love it! :xyxthumbs I purchased it about 2 1/2 years ago certified pre-owned with 28K miles on it. So far, I have not had any real problems with the car. I had some minor issues with the windshield seal and the sunroof seal that was replaced under warranty. There are some items that are a bit costly that need replacing with the E38, (7 Series BMW, 1995 through 2001). I suggest you go to the E38 board on roadfly to do some research and post some questions.
Here is the link to the E38 Board at Roadfly
Send me a pm if you have any more questions.
Cheers,
My Black 7 Series
KevinVanCaster
New member
I own a '98 S420 68,000 trouble free miles.
I had also shopped BMW I am much happier with
my benz, do your homework you can get burned
with any car! Benzsport.com has some good info.
@ a recent C-spot event there were a lot of BMW owners
looking into Benz.
Love my car.
Kevin
I had also shopped BMW I am much happier with
my benz, do your homework you can get burned
with any car! Benzsport.com has some good info.
@ a recent C-spot event there were a lot of BMW owners
looking into Benz.
Love my car.
Kevin
imported_garyo
New member
Frankie said:
Porsche did someone say Porsche.....you don't want to get me started on Porsche...I could talk and post on the subject 24 hours a day.
I completely understand the variety is a spice of life thing. It is actually a sickness with me and cars. This November will be the 2nd year in a row that I have not got a new (new to me) car. I will have had my 911 for over 2 years. This is a record for me since graduating from grad school 5 years ago, inwhich and I had a car that I had owned for 7 years (Acura Integra) . The next three years saw me blow all kinds of money and get a different car every 11-12 months I never really had a car that I disliked, I just got tired of them. I went through a Porsche 944 a new BMW 323i, a one year old Porsche Boxster, the 911 and a winter beater car that I still own. The thing that has saved me with the 911 (besides the fact it is an awesome car to drive) is that I have wife now and I have got her to get two different cars during the time I have had the 911 (got rid of her Mitshu Eclispe for Jetta GLS with the VR6 then got the 328i). Now my wife is interested in a Mini Cooper S (hmmmm...I think the JCW supercharger upgrade would be a nice addition).
Basically, I am the resident car nut in my office, that everyone comes to for advice when buying cars.
imported_memnuts
New member
quote:
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Originally posted by BW
Stay away from 1995 BMW V8's - they have the infamous Nikasil engine blocks that are very unreliable.
http://www.lestac.co.uk/bmw/nikasil.htm
I personally find Lexus cars overrated... they're nice, quiet Toyotas, but nothing incredibly special. With the exception of the IS, most provide for a very sterile driving experience.
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What you call boring I call comfortable and fun. When I embark on a 12 hr drive to Boston I never consider driving any of my "fun" cars. After about an hour, road "feel" becomes boring and very fatiguing. To me driving today is a chore with the traffic, even on the highway, and terrible intra-structure of our roads. Isolate me and when I need the "thrill" of driving I do it in something design specifically for that purpose.
With that said, 30 years ago I would not be caught in such a vehicle (LS400). Oh NOOOOOO! I have become that old man in the Caddy - driving slow, obeying all laws, and no rush to get there. :scared
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Originally posted by BW
Stay away from 1995 BMW V8's - they have the infamous Nikasil engine blocks that are very unreliable.
http://www.lestac.co.uk/bmw/nikasil.htm
I personally find Lexus cars overrated... they're nice, quiet Toyotas, but nothing incredibly special. With the exception of the IS, most provide for a very sterile driving experience.
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What you call boring I call comfortable and fun. When I embark on a 12 hr drive to Boston I never consider driving any of my "fun" cars. After about an hour, road "feel" becomes boring and very fatiguing. To me driving today is a chore with the traffic, even on the highway, and terrible intra-structure of our roads. Isolate me and when I need the "thrill" of driving I do it in something design specifically for that purpose.
With that said, 30 years ago I would not be caught in such a vehicle (LS400). Oh NOOOOOO! I have become that old man in the Caddy - driving slow, obeying all laws, and no rush to get there. :scared
Get what you have your heart set on. You will be making the payments on it . Get what you will be happy with and wont mind pulling out the checkbook out every month for the car payment. Bmw, M-benz and lexus all make good vehicles. Since you are buying used just make sure the previous owners took good care of the vehicles. It doesnt matter what you buy, if the vehicle was abused you will have repairs. It sound like you have your heart set on a BMW 740 then get it (ITS A GREAT CAR!)
thanks for your input
hey lowtech your a lucky guy to have both sevens, since you actually own a 99-2001 seven series what are some things that you have had repaired if any?
ive noticed with any of the above mentioned cars the repairs are alot of money, ive seen some bills when i was at the lexus dealer that were huge, i dont know how much worst it can get if something broke on a bimmer etc
hmm a black 7 series looks sweeet
hey lowtech your a lucky guy to have both sevens, since you actually own a 99-2001 seven series what are some things that you have had repaired if any?
ive noticed with any of the above mentioned cars the repairs are alot of money, ive seen some bills when i was at the lexus dealer that were huge, i dont know how much worst it can get if something broke on a bimmer etc
hmm a black 7 series looks sweeet
Frankie said:
My '01 is still under warranty, but has been pretty bulletproof. Same w/ my 99.... So no major bucks. The '02 on the other hand had a number of problems under warranty...
Check this out: Used e38 info
wow great link just what i was looking for, reading some of that stuff is alarming, i guess those are many of the things that could go possibly wrong, then you hear of people who have had no problems what so ever,
it seems its good to get a 98 or newer in that body style, i just want the thing to hold up if i get one where the warranty is over like a 98 or so
it seems its good to get a 98 or newer in that body style, i just want the thing to hold up if i get one where the warranty is over like a 98 or so
imported_garyo
New member
Certified pre-owned could help to solve the problems. The BMW program includes and extension of the manufacturers warranty up to 100k miles and 36 months from purchase. It use to include speacial financing at 1.9% for up to 60 months.
GoodnClean
New member
First off, I want to commend everyone here for being able to discuss this issue without getting nasty, insulting, or rude. The Lexus vs anything german debate is nastier than the old Ford vs Chevy usually.
I was in a similar situation to you before I got my ES300. Basically I was looking at just under $40,000. My dad has had great experience with Lexus, so new I was looking at the ES and its competitors. Once I weeded them out (TL, I35 etc) I started to cosider a pre owned 2000 LS400, or a 99-00ish 740iL or a 00 S430. Given all the research I did looking into these cars and talking to owners etc. If you decide you dont want another Lexus (which is fine, variety is the spice of life) then the one for you to get is the 740iL. The 00 and 01 S class is WROUGHT with problems and quality issues. Whereas the 7 in those years is established, its a great looking car, and I think its the best bet for you. I ultimately got the ES300 because I decided to lease, and the lease would never work out on a preowned.
As for Lexus. I think basically people that like the german feel are always going to be put off from the Lexus. It just feels different. I love it. I can cruise around all day long at 90mph and it feels like I'm standing still. There's no driver fatique at all. My dad just replaced his 98 LS400 with an 04 LS430 and its awesome. They're great cars, but like anything else they're not for everyone. I do however believe that anyone who says they are not of the same caliber as something like a BMW or Benz is either uninformed or just fooling themselves. Lexus is a super high quality, reliable, luxurious, and prestigious luxury car. Benz and BMW know it, just look at their latest offerings and you can see Lexus' influence. I'm not saying Lexus is better, but definately seperate but equal.
I personally love the Lexus, and I tend to stick with what I like so I'll probably always drive a Lexus as long as I can afford one.
I was in a similar situation to you before I got my ES300. Basically I was looking at just under $40,000. My dad has had great experience with Lexus, so new I was looking at the ES and its competitors. Once I weeded them out (TL, I35 etc) I started to cosider a pre owned 2000 LS400, or a 99-00ish 740iL or a 00 S430. Given all the research I did looking into these cars and talking to owners etc. If you decide you dont want another Lexus (which is fine, variety is the spice of life) then the one for you to get is the 740iL. The 00 and 01 S class is WROUGHT with problems and quality issues. Whereas the 7 in those years is established, its a great looking car, and I think its the best bet for you. I ultimately got the ES300 because I decided to lease, and the lease would never work out on a preowned.
As for Lexus. I think basically people that like the german feel are always going to be put off from the Lexus. It just feels different. I love it. I can cruise around all day long at 90mph and it feels like I'm standing still. There's no driver fatique at all. My dad just replaced his 98 LS400 with an 04 LS430 and its awesome. They're great cars, but like anything else they're not for everyone. I do however believe that anyone who says they are not of the same caliber as something like a BMW or Benz is either uninformed or just fooling themselves. Lexus is a super high quality, reliable, luxurious, and prestigious luxury car. Benz and BMW know it, just look at their latest offerings and you can see Lexus' influence. I'm not saying Lexus is better, but definately seperate but equal.
I personally love the Lexus, and I tend to stick with what I like so I'll probably always drive a Lexus as long as I can afford one.
i agree with ya 100 percent, its a shame that when people pay upwards of 60-100k for a car with benz's that the manufacture cant build a trouble free reliable car, many are misinformed and buy into the prestige, but i feel theres nothing prestigious of being stranded on the side of the road in a new york winter while a guy in a hyundai drives past you. i just talked to a old co worker and he has had his 3 year old benz in the shop 25 times in this past year, thats horrible.
lexus does build reliable soild cars, perhaps the most reliable on the road.
lexus does build reliable soild cars, perhaps the most reliable on the road.
Frankie,
Unfortunately you're spot on regarding the newer Benzes, they really don't live up to the previous generation standards.
Older Benzes were overengineered and overbuilt cars designed to last a lifetime with proper care. With the auto industry rapidly changing and competition from Japanese and now American manufacturers they've cheapened their cars to compete and have lost their way. Look at it like this.
In 1992 my car purchased new cost $83,000 before taxes and gas guzzler. My car has a 5.0 Liter DOHC 32Valve V8 producing 322HP. In 2003 you can purchase an E55 AMG with airmatic adjustable suspension, even more options inside and out and a 5.5 Liter Supercharged V8 with 496HP for $72,000! Some will argue that manufacturing costs have gone down but not nearly at the same rate as inflation. So Daimler has had to cut costs somewhere right? This cost cutting is apparently occuring in shorter development times (reason why new models have so many problems) and materials of construction. Their throwing new technology out too quickly and ironing out the problems using the public. Pretty stupid strategy if you ask me. It's only a matter of time before people are fed up and move on to other brands.
I will say that BMW seems to be on a similar track with their latest offerings. Lexus is a bit smarter as they wait for technology to stabilize before offering it to their customers, they're thinking long term.
IMO the vast majority of new cars (excluding exotics and P/U Trucks) are only designed to last 5 years or 175K miles before they're to expensive to repair. Then it's off to the recycler and time for a new car. Japan actually forces the Japanese consumers to junk their vehicles after 5 years to insure less polution! It is not a law but the registration on used vehicles are so high (in the thousands) that it wouldn't make sense to keep an older vehicle.
Unfortunately you're spot on regarding the newer Benzes, they really don't live up to the previous generation standards.
Older Benzes were overengineered and overbuilt cars designed to last a lifetime with proper care. With the auto industry rapidly changing and competition from Japanese and now American manufacturers they've cheapened their cars to compete and have lost their way. Look at it like this.
In 1992 my car purchased new cost $83,000 before taxes and gas guzzler. My car has a 5.0 Liter DOHC 32Valve V8 producing 322HP. In 2003 you can purchase an E55 AMG with airmatic adjustable suspension, even more options inside and out and a 5.5 Liter Supercharged V8 with 496HP for $72,000! Some will argue that manufacturing costs have gone down but not nearly at the same rate as inflation. So Daimler has had to cut costs somewhere right? This cost cutting is apparently occuring in shorter development times (reason why new models have so many problems) and materials of construction. Their throwing new technology out too quickly and ironing out the problems using the public. Pretty stupid strategy if you ask me. It's only a matter of time before people are fed up and move on to other brands.
I will say that BMW seems to be on a similar track with their latest offerings. Lexus is a bit smarter as they wait for technology to stabilize before offering it to their customers, they're thinking long term.
IMO the vast majority of new cars (excluding exotics and P/U Trucks) are only designed to last 5 years or 175K miles before they're to expensive to repair. Then it's off to the recycler and time for a new car. Japan actually forces the Japanese consumers to junk their vehicles after 5 years to insure less polution! It is not a law but the registration on used vehicles are so high (in the thousands) that it wouldn't make sense to keep an older vehicle.
wow thats crazy whats going on in this auto industry all at the expense of the consumer's time and money, from what i can tell merceds from years ago was more reliable that what it has been in the last few years which is herrendous. i remember people saying they were built like tanks and can go forever not no more.
i mean these people that are owning these cars with no warranty or one that is out of warranty on a used car lot are really getting screwed on repairs and upkeep.
are pickups and exotics made to go longer than 175k, cause i've seen plenty of "normal" cars like fords, chevy's , subaru's, dodge with 200- 250k miles plus and 10 plus years old.
i mean these people that are owning these cars with no warranty or one that is out of warranty on a used car lot are really getting screwed on repairs and upkeep.
are pickups and exotics made to go longer than 175k, cause i've seen plenty of "normal" cars like fords, chevy's , subaru's, dodge with 200- 250k miles plus and 10 plus years old.
Thought I'd add my thoughts...
As you many have indicated, the Japense brands will be more reliable (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura), but for the big flagship models, their offerings do not inspire passion.
If you want a big flagship car that will turn heads, I agree with your choice between BMW 7 and MB S.
Between the two, in the years you're considering, I think the BMW is generally considered more reliable. There aren't a lot of these cars out to for data, but I have last year's Consumer's Report 2003 car guide with reliabilitly histories, and the BMW 7 series (only 1998 had average reliability, and 2001 had above average reliability -- these where the only two years with sufficient data), while the MB S-Class was rated below average in reliability for the 2000 model year (insufficent data for other years).
The choice between BMW and MB is very personal, but I felt the BMW is more of a driver's car. I don't like the newest generation 7 series, but the 1998-2001 7 series is a beautiful car.
That's why I got a 1999 BMW 740 Sport Package, cosmos black with tan interior [and of course Zaino!] (and the wife's car is a 2004 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6mt).
I would highly recommend going with 1999-2001, and getting the sport package. If you go for a 740iL, the sport package is only cosmetic (black-out trim, beautiful M-rims), but for the regular length 740i, the sport package includes suspension, and different gearing (making the car very fast, but even more of a gas guzzler). The difference in looks between a sport package and non-sport package is huge, IMO.
Good luck with your choice.
As you many have indicated, the Japense brands will be more reliable (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura), but for the big flagship models, their offerings do not inspire passion.
If you want a big flagship car that will turn heads, I agree with your choice between BMW 7 and MB S.
Between the two, in the years you're considering, I think the BMW is generally considered more reliable. There aren't a lot of these cars out to for data, but I have last year's Consumer's Report 2003 car guide with reliabilitly histories, and the BMW 7 series (only 1998 had average reliability, and 2001 had above average reliability -- these where the only two years with sufficient data), while the MB S-Class was rated below average in reliability for the 2000 model year (insufficent data for other years).
The choice between BMW and MB is very personal, but I felt the BMW is more of a driver's car. I don't like the newest generation 7 series, but the 1998-2001 7 series is a beautiful car.
That's why I got a 1999 BMW 740 Sport Package, cosmos black with tan interior [and of course Zaino!] (and the wife's car is a 2004 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6mt).
I would highly recommend going with 1999-2001, and getting the sport package. If you go for a 740iL, the sport package is only cosmetic (black-out trim, beautiful M-rims), but for the regular length 740i, the sport package includes suspension, and different gearing (making the car very fast, but even more of a gas guzzler). The difference in looks between a sport package and non-sport package is huge, IMO.
Good luck with your choice.
Frankie,
I might suggest buying this month's issue of consumer reports. It focuses on reliability reports for the past few years, I think back to 97. It bases each car's reliabilty in comparison to the best and worst. It also has a chart on manufacturer's problems per 100 vehicles. Toyota was first, Honda and Hyundai were close behind (yes Hyundai) BMW was barely above average and Mercedes was well below average. GM was the most reliable of American cars. Maybe that will assist in your decision. Best of luck to you. Note: you might check on Kelly Blue Book's website, they have great extended warranties for reasonable prices, just to play it safe.
I might suggest buying this month's issue of consumer reports. It focuses on reliability reports for the past few years, I think back to 97. It bases each car's reliabilty in comparison to the best and worst. It also has a chart on manufacturer's problems per 100 vehicles. Toyota was first, Honda and Hyundai were close behind (yes Hyundai) BMW was barely above average and Mercedes was well below average. GM was the most reliable of American cars. Maybe that will assist in your decision. Best of luck to you. Note: you might check on Kelly Blue Book's website, they have great extended warranties for reasonable prices, just to play it safe.