ONR type wash without ONR

[Chris@Optimum]

And you asked me, "why can't you express yourself without sarcasm and condescension "



Look in the mirror. You have absolutely no room to talk.

There's a difference between humor and sarcasm. As Ricky Bobby said: "I said with all due respect" thus allowing me to say anything afterward with no repercussions.



*like I've already said, I'm just being silly at this point. We've exhausted the "real" discussion. No hard feelings Anthony.:chuckle:

 

[David Fermani]

Take your car soap and wash dirty wheels with it. See how long you have the suds around. Now use dawn, and you will clearly see that it will get rid of grease and dirt much better and the water will remain full of suds.

Not sure what this has what to do with pematurely fading paint & trim?

Dawn will also strip your LSP - or is that also just bs?

That's why I use it. Aren't *most* LSPs oil/water emulsions? Don't think paint and/or trim is though....



On a side note, I've been using Dawn(weekly) for almost 6 months on my partially Opti-Coated car and haven't noticed any deterioration of any of the protected or unprotected surfaces and/or coating. Including the plastic wheel covers. Many times getting washed in full sun and allowing Dawn to dry on the surface.

 

[Chris@Optimum]

Integritydeatil, Scott Wax, and Shutter sure are trying hard now to cause this thread to get locked. Two of them have Optimum connections. Hmmm interesting.

C'mon Anthony, everyone knows I like Optimum's stuff (check out my signature). But your comments were that "rinseless washes were a scam"; not that Optimum is a scam. You're just reaching for straws now. I'm not trying to get it shut down, just having a little fun with it. And for the record, I do like your idea of "scamwash" ahem, I mean, "rinseless wash" after polishing, I do that too! There's some common ground for ya, peace.



more humor: I wonder if a Shamwow would be the best drying towel for a Shamwash? I just couldn't resist :laugh:

 

[Scottwax]

Integritydeatil, Scott Wax, and Shutter sure are trying hard now to cause this thread to get locked. Two of them have Optimum connections. Hmmm interesting.

Learn to take a joke.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Not sure what this has what to do with pematurely fading paint & trim?

It has to do with dawn being way more powerful than any car soap.



As far as not seeing any fading on a new silver paint? 6 months is too short.

And btw, are you washing only half of your car's area with dawn? Because that is the only way you'll see a difference.

 

[David Fermani]

Maybe your assuming that I advocate using Dawn on regular basis. No, not really. But I really have a hard time believing that it's so "powerful" that it fades paint & cracks trim. I seriously doubt that and there's no evidence to support it. My test over the next couple of years will hopefully bring that to surface. No, I'm washing the entire car with it. And, the basecoat on my car is silver, the top clearcoat is clear just like every other car on the road.



I also think Dawn is much less harmful that what 99% of American Car Washes use as pre-soaks. They rely on high doses of both alkaline and acidic soaps that you wouldn't even want to dip your hand in. You don't see all these cars faded & cracking.

 

[Tuck91]

Wow! Ban some one for doing something different than you do or think it should be done. Nice message your sending out there. Don't dare challenge the established ways or you are a troll and should be banned. You are clearly trying to provoke me so things get out of control and I do something to get my self banned. Feeble attempt and I won't get sucked in.

You have been getting sucked in for almolst six pages. I doubt you will be able to stop yourself now, just proves my point of you being a troll.

Integritydeatil, Scott Wax, and Shutter sure are trying hard now to cause this thread to get locked. Two of them have Optimum connections. Hmmm interesting.

Scottwax is one of the best detailers on this site and has contributed much more than you.



Now will somebody ban you already.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Maybe your assuming that I advocate using Dawn on regular basis. No, not really. But I really have a hard time believing that it's so "powerful" that it fades paint & cracks trim. I seriously doubt that and there's no evidence to support it. My test over the next couple of years will hopefully bring that to surface. No, I'm washing the entire car with it. And, the basecoat on my car is silver, the top clearcoat is clear just like every other car on the road.



I also think Dawn is much less harmful that what 99% of American Car Washes use as pre-soaks. They rely on high doses of both alkaline and acidic soaps that you wouldn't even want to dip your hand in. You don't see all these cars faded & cracking.

First, I like using dawn actually when I polish the paint afterwards.



If you are washing the whole car with dawn, how can you make a comparison? You didn't opti coat the whole car wright?



PS: I was comparing dawn to car soaps that ARE more gentle. There should be no question there. After all no matter how hard I look at the dawn label I can't seem to find the fine print that says: "will not strip wax"



No one is talking about CAR WASHES here - only dawn vs car soaps.



Now if you want to see what car washes do to paint, visit Portland. Of course dawn is much more mild.

 

[Tony1]

You have been getting sucked in for almolst six pages. I doubt you will be able to stop yourself now, just proves my point of you being a troll.









Scottwax is one of the best detailers on this site and has contributed much more than you.



Now will somebody ban you already.

I never said Scottwax was not a good detailer. I never even implied it. It's amusing that a guy who joined the site a month ago is commenting on who is "one of the best detailers on this site" and how much that detailer has contributed. You are hardly qualified to make such a comment. Troll



I was sucked into nothing. You or anybody else has been able to provoke me to behave in way to get banned. I keep replying for six pages because I know what results I have gotten when doing the rinseless wash with regular soap and I'm not going to let the likes of you tell me different.



Nothing I have said or done even remotely resembles trolling. You on the other hand are clearly trying to provoke trouble with your asinine comments about banning me because I have suggested a different way of doing something. I'm sure the mods have been watching this thread closely and I have not seen one comment, email, or PM from them with any kind of warning to me and I would have by now. You on the other hand should be dealt with because you clearly are trying to cause trouble now. Will somebody ban Shutter already.

 

[Tuck91]

Been reading here a long time before I joined.



I am qualified to make that statement since I have seen hundreds of professional detail threads from Scottwax and not a single one from you.



Anyone who takes a casual perusual through your posting history gets the idea.

 

[Tony1]

Anyone who takes a casual perusual through your posting history gets the idea.

Yeah that I like to try out different techniques and experiment to determine things for myself. That I'm not a band wagon boy or product of the month fan club member. How you twist that into me being a troll is absurd.



May I remind you I didn't start this thread. I simply replied to the thread starter based on my experience. That is not trolling. Your repeated calls to ban me for no good reason is to me trolling. The comments are made to provoke and cause trouble and that is trolling. If anybody in this thread should be banned it is you.

 

[Tuck91]

Yeah that I like to try out different techniques and experiment to determine things for myself. That I'm not a band wagon boy or product of the month fan club member. How you twist that into me being a troll is absurd.



May I remind you I didn't start this thread. I simply replied to the thread starter based on my experience. That is not trolling. Your repeated calls to ban me for no good reason is to me trolling. The comments are made to provoke and cause trouble and that is trolling. If anybody in this thread should be banned it is you.

I'll let someone else feed the troll now.........

 

[Tony1]

I'll let someone else feed the troll now.........

Go away and stop trolling.

 

[David Fermani]

First, I like using dawn actually when I polish the paint afterwards.



If you are washing the whole car with dawn, how can you make a comparison? You didn't opti coat the whole car wright?



PS: I was comparing dawn to car soaps that ARE more gentle. There should be no question there. After all no matter how hard I look at the dawn label I can't seem to find the fine print that says: "will not strip wax"



No one is talking about CAR WASHES here - only dawn vs car soaps.



Now if you want to see what car washes do to paint, visit Portland. Of course dawn is much more mild.

We're talking about your claim that dishwashing detergent caused your customer's car to fade.



Dawn might have tendancy to strip some LSPs, but there’s not 1 documented case that Dishwashing Soap (or any other soap used to wash cars) will damage paint, trim, rubber or plastic like you originally stated happened to your customer’s car. What you do see is a bunch of people with opinions based on folklore and false perception making biased judgements based on other less informed people. Until I see proof that damage could result using Dawn, I will chose to remain open minded with its use. As it has been said many times here before, the PH value & MSDS ingredients are on par with many car wash soaps that are “paint safe�, yet because Dawn is marketed to clean dishes people run for the hills when discussed. I haven’t noticed any of my plastic dishes detiorating or fading from an even higher concentration of Dawn/Palmolive & hot water combo. In retrospect, the chemicals used at every Automatic, Self-Serve & Touchless Car Wash are much stronger than Dawn and there’s no mass exodus of people(in any state including Oregon) complaining that their paint & trim is fading from it. And more fuel to add to the fire; how about all the Alkaline wheels cleaners used on clearcoated wheels over the last several decades. Don’t see everyone’s wheels fading; and they’re exposed to high heat too. If Dawn (which is much gentler than the soap used at conventional car washes) is supposedly able to damage your vehicle, why aren’t 99% of the vehicles on the road already destroyed?



As far as the test on my car, it’s multi-faceted actually. Half of the entire car is coated with Opti-Coat. Including the paint, chrome/textured trim, wheels, rubber trim and glass. It’s getting weekly washes with Dawn in addition to monthly trips to the Touchless wash. The hood has been completed sanded flat in hopes of accelerating the damaging folklore/claims of UV exposure & Dawn usage. This will not only test the strength/longevity of Opti-Coat, but will also accelerate the supposed claim that Dawn can damage your car on either the coated or bare ½.

 

[Chris@Optimum]

I agree with David about Dawn not causing problems because my family has owned tunnel washes for years and those two step arches are WAY more strong than Dawn. That's why they add spray wax and drying agents to the rinse water so that you "think' your car still beads after they've just done a mini-decontamination treatment on it.



My gripe in this thread was about the rinseless washes being called scams...not that strong detergents don't have a place in car cleaning.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Please don't try to say that dawn doesn't effect your paint's finish?



ANY paint will look worse if you use dishwashing soap to wash your car instead of a car soap designed for your car. If you use a wax/sealant on your car to protect that new car look, dawn will strip your protection. What am I saying here that is incorrect?



As far as people in Oregon or anywhere else not freaking out over their car's condition is not proof that chemicals that are powerful enough to strip LSPs (I mean quality ones) don't accelerate fading.



These people running their cars through car washes have very little clue that their paint could and should look superior just by using the proper products - that is why most cars around Portland look like SH#T.



PS: I don't know anything about dawn cracking rubber. You didn't hear that from me.



PPS:



1 - dawning your whole car - how can you tell down the road what the original paint would have looked without it? It is not a good test in my opinion. You should have left at least 1 panel alone.



2 - My claim was never what you claim. Where did I say that dawn destroys paint? :LOLOL:LOLOL:LOLOL:LOLOL



All I said was that the paint was very faded after only 3 years of washing it with dishwashing liquid. Is that a proof? I saw it and it is true that you didn't see it. Doesn't mean it isn't true.:werd::werd::werd:

We're talking about your claim that dishwashing detergent caused your customer's car to fade.



Dawn might have tendancy to strip some LSPs, but there’s not 1 documented case that Dishwashing Soap (or any other soap used to wash cars) will damage paint, trim, rubber or plastic like you originally stated happened to your customer’s car. What you do see is a bunch of people with opinions based on folklore and false perception making biased judgements based on other less informed people. Until I see proof that damage could result using Dawn, I will chose to remain open minded with its use. As it has been said many times here before, the PH value & MSDS ingredients are on par with many car wash soaps that are “paint safe�, yet because Dawn is marketed to clean dishes people run for the hills when discussed. I haven’t noticed any of my plastic dishes detiorating or fading from an even higher concentration of Dawn/Palmolive & hot water combo. In retrospect, the chemicals used at every Automatic, Self-Serve & Touchless Car Wash are much stronger than Dawn and there’s no mass exodus of people(in any state including Oregon) complaining that their paint & trim is fading from it. And more fuel to add to the fire; how about all the Alkaline wheels cleaners used on clearcoated wheels over the last several decades. Don’t see everyone’s wheels fading; and they’re exposed to high heat too. If Dawn (which is much gentler than the soap used at conventional car washes) is supposedly able to damage your vehicle, why aren’t 99% of the vehicles on the road already destroyed?



As far as the test on my car, it’s multi-faceted actually. Half of the entire car is coated with Opti-Coat. Including the paint, chrome/textured trim, wheels, rubber trim and glass. It’s getting weekly washes with Dawn in addition to monthly trips to the Touchless wash. The hood has been completed sanded flat in hopes of accelerating the damaging folklore/claims of UV exposure & Dawn usage. This will not only test the strength/longevity of Opti-Coat, but will also accelerate the supposed claim that Dawn can damage your car on either the coated or bare ½.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

I agree with David about Dawn not causing problems because my family has owned tunnel washes for years and those two step arches are WAY more strong than Dawn. That's why they add spray wax and drying agents to the rinse water so that you "think' your car still beads after they've just done a mini-decontamination treatment on it.



My gripe in this thread was about the rinseless washes being called scams...not that strong detergents don't have a place in car cleaning.

What are you saying?



If you use a wax after using a harsh chemical is NOT the same as using dawn only. You just confirmed what I am saying. Thanks dude!!! :bigups:bigups:bigups

 

[Legacy]

I have been doing it for about four years now and I won't go back.

You've been using ONR for four years and now you won't go back?

 

[Chris@Optimum]

When I get a detail and the car has been neglected, has bugs, tar, god knows what in the arches...I foam it with Red Devil Degreaser. I let that sit (in the shade) for about 5 minutes while I do the rims and scrub the arches. I pressure rinse then pull it inside and ONR it. Two things to note here: 1. I will be polishing and protecting the paint 2. That Degreaser is a lot more powerful than Dawn. Now, I don't wash all cars with degreaser and I don't scrub it...I just let it soak a bit. It really helps a lot. For all the people that only do tunnel washes, the strength of the detergent is the least of their worries: hundreds of cars per day with the same mitt and minimum wage attendants is what scares me.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

When I get a detail and the car has been neglected, has bugs, tar, god knows what in the arches...I foam it with Red Devil Degreaser. I let that sit (in the shade) for about 5 minutes while I do the rims and scrub the arches. I pressure rinse then pull it inside and ONR it. Two things to note here: 1. I will be polishing and protecting the paint 2. That Degreaser is a lot more powerful than Dawn. Now, I don't wash all cars with degreaser and I don't scrub it...I just let it soak a bit. It really helps a lot. For all the people that only do tunnel washes, the strength of the detergent is the least of their worries: hundreds of cars per day with the same mitt and minimum wage attendants is what scares me.

You must have not read my posts.



All I said was that a car that was only washed with dishwashing liquids for 3 years looked very faded. The owner thought that it needed to be repainted in order to improve the finish.



IF YOU ARE POLISHING/WAXING AFTER IT - IT IS ANOTHER STORY ALLTOGETHER.