NXT, Hype Or Just Perspective?

Steve, when you say "class", do you mean "type", as in "NXT isn't the same type of product" or quality, like in the vernacular sense of not as good as, "not in the same class"? Do you believe that it is ESSENTIAL for an Autopian product to not have any cleaning abilities? If you believe that to be so, do you think that you might be biasing yourself because of pre-defined notions of what constitutes an Autopian product? If a product DID look as good as other Autopian products, AND lasted as long as most of them, AND didn't need any layering of other products to achieve those results, would you not call it an Autopian product if it needed to have cleaning properties in order to achieve those results? Would you change your opinion of a product based on who manufactured it?



And that made me think of another question; are your tests blind, or are you aware of what products you are testing, and if you are aware, how do you avoid potential bias toward or against products, other than your (unquestioned) honesty?



This might sound like an attack, but it's not; it's more of an offer to you to question yourself a bit, and I know that you will accept it as such.





Tom
 
Mosca said:
and if you are aware, how do you avoid potential bias toward or against products, other than your (unquestioned) honesty?
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The same question can be asked of those praising NXT to be the greatest product ever invented, or every "review" that's ever been posted on this site. Nearly every review has a bias, it's up to the reader to determine if a pre-existing bias exists, and if that bias makes the review credible or not.
 
ShowroomLincoln said:
The same question can be asked of those praising NXT to be the greatest product ever invented, or every "review" that's ever been posted on this site. Nearly every review has a bias, it's up to the reader to determine if a pre-existing bias exists, and if that bias makes the review credible or not.
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Agreed. Most of the products reviewed on Autopia tend to be pretty decent anyway, how they ultimately rank seems to depend on the look/durability/ease of use that is important to the reviewer.
 
Tom, no problem.



Official Guru Reports tests are all conducted blind. No one knows what products they're using, nor do they know which products they're grading. When I do informal tests of products on my own, then, yes, I do know what is being used. I try my very best to remain as neutral as possible - I'm always on the look out for a great new product, so the last thing I want to do is hype it in my mind, or conversely dismiss it before I get a chance to see how it performs.



(off-topic, general rant)

I'm sort of sick of being accused of being biased just because I'm honest and skeptical with products. I don't buy into the hype, correct. But at the same time, I don't head into a test going, "Well, this is sure to suck, but let's see anyway." I mean, do you expect the manufacturer to come out and say, "Uh, this product was the best we could do given the time and money that we had available to us, so it's not gonna be that great, but it should be ok for most people." Of course not. So, by the same token, we have to all take some of the hype at face value, right?

(end rant)



Anyway, to answer your other question about class/type - I was mixing words. I meant "type," but with my poor grammar I used the word "class." In my mind, Klasse, Zaino, etc. are in the same "class" of products, i.e. they are non-abrasive synthetics.



I also don't think that a product has to be abrasive free in order to earn the status of "autopian standard." I use abrasive products all the time - that by itself makes little difference to me. I just don't like seeing ingredient descriptions and claims being manipulated in a manner that will satisfy everyone's questions... Like some of the products that claim to "Clean and remove swirl marks" while "containing no abrasives!" etc., etc., etc.



And again - I understand your question and didn't take any offense to it. I just had to interject that general rant. :)
 
I hope you understand that your honesty is unquestioned. When I say "biased", I am referring strictly to "experimental bias", something that is unavoidable, something that is part of being human.



I'm not biased in the strict sense because I'm not trying to experimentally show anything; there's no comparative result that I'm trying to demonstrate; there can be no "experimental bias" without an experiment. I am of course biased in an informal sense, and I often point out that my awareness of the fact that I spent $50 on that Souveran tends to make it look pretty good!



I agree that NXT is not the same type of product as Klasse. They both produce excellent (looking) results though. It's pretty interesting to see humans take different approaches to the same puzzle, with similar but different results, like roses and orchids are both flowers but not the same.



Tom
 
blkZ28Conv said:
I must respectfully counter. :bow



Polymer sealant products do not "bond" to a vehicle's surface. That is hype or misconception of its actual physical interaction with a vehicle finish. There is "adhersion" , sap-like, not "bonding" situation taking place. I must use the word "situation" because "reaction" implies 2 entities interacting. The paint is inert and the sealant is also. So technically there is no NXT re-writing of physical chemistry involved here. Zaino may not adhere to perfectly clean (oil-free) surface but probably does remain in place with less efficiency on a not so perfectly clean surface.

If you would like to point out that the possiblity that Zaino and products like NXT polymer sealants having difficulty cross-linking with each other, that again can only be hypothesized.



Remember that a painted surface is not a perfectly level surface. Microscopically the surface is composed of peaks,plateaus and valley. An oil containing substances can exist filling only the valleys and still allow the exposure of the peaks and plateaus that are oil-free - points of adhersion. The adhersion may take place on these peaks and the crosslinking occur between the polymer components forming a latix that not only attaches itself to the finish but at the same time entrapping the oily material against the finish.

What I am pointing out here is that some of the doctrine about what is happening is far beyond black-and-white statements and should not be placed out there as gospel. I guess if one repeats something enough times, it must transform itself into the truth? :nixweiss
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One must be careful not too confuse chemical bonding with physical bonding. A chemical bond is one that links atoms together. Examples of a physical bond would be glue, sealants, adhesives, PAINT, and some automotive polishes and waxes. It bonds in the sense that it adheres to the surface just like paint does, but no chemical reaction is ocurring involving the paint....just the polymer (as it crosslinks and cures into a durable coating).



I don't buy the the bonding over oils case. One of 2 things will happen if it is in fact a curing, crosslinking polymer. Durability will be reduced, or the product has enough (cleaners - solvents, abrasives) to remove the oils. Think of what would happen if you applied paint over an oily surface. How about trying to glue together 2 pieces of plastic with an oily film on them? The truth is that even if there are micrscopic hills and valleys (which help durability and bonding giving the polymer a surface to "bite" against - example sanding before painting) the polymer will tend to want to fill in these voids as well, and will be negated by the oils. If any oils are trapped underneath.....what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat? All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............
 
DETAILKING said:
One must be careful not too confuse chemical bonding with physical bonding. A chemical bond is one that links atoms together. Examples of a physical bond would be glue, sealants, adhesives, PAINT, and some automotive polishes and waxes. It bonds in the sense that it adheres to the surface just like paint does, but no chemical reaction is ocurring involving the paint....just the polymer (as it crosslinks and cures into a durable coating).



I don't buy the the bonding over oils case. One of 2 things will happen if it is in fact a curing, crosslinking polymer. Durability will be reduced, or the product has enough (cleaners - solvents, abrasives) to remove the oils. Think of what would happen if you applied paint over an oily surface. How about trying to glue together 2 pieces of plastic with an oily film on them? The truth is that even if there are micrscopic hills and valleys (which help durability and bonding giving the polymer a surface to "bite" against - example sanding before painting) the polymer will tend to want to fill in these voids as well, and will be negated by the oils. If any oils are trapped underneath.....what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat? All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............
Click to expand...



:up



Thanks for the clarification. So all waxes physically bond to the paint (or it would fall off), but only a few actually chemically bond, by means of changing.
 
DK, you beat me to it - I was searching for your old posts about this subject and was going to quote you, but you beat me. :D



I'm gettin' slow on the keyboard in my old age.
 
Thanks, blkZ28Conv, for the welcome....



Looking at all those finely detailed paintjobs on Autopia is contagious. I am spending every free moment in my garage detailing my car. Boy, I better drive it soon or the car is going to deteriate sitting in my garage.



Regarding NXT, I was skeptical at first about its layering properties, but allowing time between applications yielded fantastic layering results. I have a gray metallic paint color, but I wanted to get that shimmering pool of water look. With 4 coats of NXT I am still not there, but very close. The first coat gave great results but each successive coat gave better reflection and depth, amazing stuff!



Nevertheless, I am still going to save up for Klasse AIO/SG/Sonus Spritz just to have a comparison product that is well accepted among Autopians. Learning is fun, especially when it is dealing with cars, so this is just another step in the hobby for me.



Cheers!
 
Scottwax, funny thing, I am also looking for a suitable "reserved" looking bottle to pour my NXT into, so that the neighbors won't see the budding young risk taking experimenter side of me. I have a family, you know, but sometimes I just cant resist taking my old skateboard down the hill in one speedy hillbomb exercise :^).
 
DETAILKING said:
One must be careful not too confuse chemical bonding with physical bonding. A chemical bond is one that links atoms together. Examples of a physical bond would be glue, sealants, adhesives, PAINT, and some automotive polishes and waxes. It bonds in the sense that it adheres to the surface just like paint does, but no chemical reaction is ocurring involving the paint....just the polymer (as it crosslinks and cures into a durable coating).



I don't buy the the bonding over oils case. One of 2 things will happen if it is in fact a curing, crosslinking polymer. Durability will be reduced, or the product has enough (cleaners - solvents, abrasives) to remove the oils. Think of what would happen if you applied paint over an oily surface. How about trying to glue together 2 pieces of plastic with an oily film on them? The truth is that even if there are micrscopic hills and valleys (which help durability and bonding giving the polymer a surface to "bite" against - example sanding before painting) the polymer will tend to want to fill in these voids as well, and will be negated by the oils. If any oils are trapped underneath.....what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat? All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............
Click to expand...



WHEW!!!



I'm glad someone like DK came along to bail me out. :D :D
 
Appearance is important,but being in 100F+ temperature over 6 months, I afraid, that those oils will not hold up very well for weeks...









Zaino to the rescue:D or SG
 
Welp, back from Walmart with my NXT spray wax ($4.35), can't wait to give it a shot over fresh NXT tech wax. It says it is used to maintain teh NXT tech wax, but I want to see what it does for a fresh NXT finish.



more later.
 
Tried it on my hood. It increased and made sharper the reflections off my hood. Not sure how long it will last, but its definitely a sharper reflection now. With the increase in sharper reflection brought out(makes more prominent) some fine scratches that I have on my brand new paintjob.



Result: sharper reflections and slicker feel. brought out some fine scratches- cant explain it, maybe someone here has an idea why.
 
Boy, this discussion sure has gotten interesting just lately. :cool:

Jeff Laughhunn said:
One of the main advantages of NXT, from what I've read, is something I don't see mentioned often. Namely, that it can be applied over a glaze, or over even a carnauba. I know that neither Klasse or Zaino can be successfully applied over these. If this is the case, I think this gives NXT a significant niche, namely protection without "prescribed only" preparation. Are there _any_ other good sealants which can do this?

Jeff Laughhunn
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I vaguely recall a few other "new" products that were being tried by many members in the last couple years, and that at least a couple of them were supposedly or reportedly "able to be applied over a glaze", unlike the standbys Zaino and Klasse.



Whether this worked well or not, I don't remember, but I think it's interesting that some of the initial results and comments about NXT seem quite similar to these products so far, and there have even been some comparisons. It's also interesting to note that these products don't seem to be discussed or possibly even used with much frequency anymore. Time will tell. The good products persist, while the pretenders fall by the wayside.



In the meantime, I hope people keep an open mind when approaching something new and different. :)
 
Why would I want to apply a sealant over carnauba which is softer. Id rather put the strong stuff next to the paint and carnauba on top to promote a carnauba shine. I have always thought of synthetic sealants to be artificial by definition, but NXT gives a depth and clarity of shine like carnauba and a wetness that is, well very intense when layered. Some prefer the naturalness of carnauba, its soft, deep, wet, clear all a the same time. But carnauba doesnt last, melts in the sun, smears, holds dirt, etc. Good synthetic sealants won't do that and lasts longer, but appearance wise, there may be a compromise. Maybe that is the dream of these detail companies is to come up with a product as nice in aesthetics as carnauba, but with the durability of diamond :^) and with the ease of application as the finest glazes. Wow, what a dream!
 
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