NXT, Hype Or Just Perspective?

You know, judging from the previous posts in this thread, alot of us here on Autopia should either be working for or starting our own Auto care manufacturing business. :D It's astonishing to see a group of people who take the art of detailing to not just the beauty results, but down to the bone of scientific attributes of waxes, polishes, etc.



Hats off to Autopians!:xyxthumbs :bow





>Needed to lighten up the tension a little bit too.:D <
 
DETAILKING said:
what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat? All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............
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Before anyone stops threading water ;)



The reason I used "physical" chemistry is to illustrate that NXT, in this example, is performing as is stated - adhering to the painted surface not altering science as previous thread implied. I am quite verse in the differences you were stating. :bow



Your point about painting is a very good example. I am sure we all along the way in haste attempted painting a "contaminated" surface. Though the paint appeared to adhered, some time later it eventually chipped or fell off. Until that time the paint remained in place. That is my point about oil contamination and sealant adhersion to that said surface. May not last very long but it is still present and expressing it "appearance" values ( i.e. Zaino reflectivity and gloss). Obviously durability was compromised.



We could go into hydrophilic, hydrophobic, molecular weight and the displacement issues here and the part they could possibly play in the displacing products from valleys and surface depressions. Beyond this discussion without structural ( molecular) data.

Another technical issue is the lattice structure (formed via cross-linking) and its expandibility and permeability during changing ambient conditions. Again, we just do not have the technical data. Our observations are only empirical.

DK we are on the same page (on many levels) in this discussion. Thanks for pointing out the grey areas involved in this discussion.



I love reading the ying-and-yang, valid viewpoints on both sides and food for thought, about this subject and the obvious dipolar camps - ultimate appearance and ultimate durability. Just like old times. :bow

Maybe some day there will be a product that offers both apexices with proper documentation (ingredients match what the product claims) and uniform result reportings from all users.

:wavey
 
Boy, this discussion sure has gotten interesting just lately.
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Hopefully I've gained enough knowledge from you Autopians, that I can at least start asking intelligent questions. **********:smilie(';)')



All of the discertations / chemistry lessons drawn out in this thread are invaluable to me, and I appreciate everyone's honest take on the processes involved. Of course, I only remember the chemistry I didn't sleep through in highschool 20 years ago, so I can be easily convinced by either camp. **********:smilie(':nixweiss')



I was on a car-care-list a couple years ago, and got into an exchange with several who were touting the virtues of a "Miracle" wax with Teflon in it. Lasted for years, blah blah. So, I took them to task, thinking I could _never_ be convinced that Teflon could be a viable ingredient to a car finish. Longstoryshort, I was eventually put in my place, by the owner of the company that sold such a wax, and he supported his claims by directing me to his patent information at the US Patent Office. I looked, saw the claims as well as the process submitted and accepted by the Patent Office (IIRC, had something to do with Cationic/Ionic charges creating a bond); and me and my Highschool Chemistry had to accept what he claimed was true. I sure wish that discussion would've transpired here on Autopia, because I don't believe it would have ended so abruptly.



Of course, I never did buy that $100 bottle of wax he was selling, either.



Jeff Laughhunn
 
Jeff Laughhunn said:
Hopefully I've gained enough knowledge from you Autopians, that I can at least start asking intelligent questions. **********:smilie(';)')
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The only unintelligent question is one not asked. :)



All of the discertations / chemistry lessons drawn out in this thread are invaluable to me, and I appreciate everyone's honest take on the processes involved. Of course, I only remember the chemistry I didn't sleep through in highschool 20 years ago, so I can be easily convinced by either camp. **********:smilie(':nixweiss')[/B]
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And you thought chemistry had no bearing in your future endeavors ( hobby) :)



I was on a car-care-list a couple years ago, and got into an exchange with several who were touting the virtues of a "Miracle" wax with Teflon in it. Lasted for years, blah blah. So, I took them to task, thinking I could _never_ be convinced that Teflon could be a viable ingredient to a car finish. Longstoryshort, I was eventually put in my place, by the owner of the company that sold such a wax, and he supported his claims by directing me to his patent information at the US Patent Office. I looked, saw the claims as well as the process submitted and accepted by the Patent Office (IIRC, had something to do with Cationic/Ionic charges creating a bond); and me and my Highschool Chemistry had to accept what he claimed was true. I sure wish that discussion would've transpired here on Autopia, because I don't believe it would have ended so abruptly.



Of course, I never did buy that $100 bottle of wax he was selling, either.[/B]
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Great move Jeff. :bow
 
DETAILKING said:
One must be careful not too confuse chemical bonding with physical bonding. A chemical bond is one that links atoms together. Examples of a physical bond would be glue, sealants, adhesives, PAINT, and some automotive polishes and waxes. It bonds in the sense that it adheres to the surface just like paint does, but no chemical reaction is ocurring involving the paint....just the polymer (as it crosslinks and cures into a durable coating).



There are many different mechanisms for adhesion. How does epoxy stick to atomically flat sapphire, then?



I don't buy the the bonding over oils case. One of 2 things will happen if it is in fact a curing, crosslinking polymer. Durability will be reduced, or the product has enough (cleaners - solvents, abrasives) to remove the oils.



Or the act of rubbing is enough to push polymers onto the paint surface and the polymer doesn't care if there are some oil molecules in it.



Think of what would happen if you applied paint over an oily surface. How about trying to glue together 2 pieces of plastic with an oily film on them?



How about dipping your fingers in oil, then putting a dab of superglue between them, and then pressing your fingers together? Do you know if polymer sealants on glaze is more like the former or latter?



The truth is that even if there are micrscopic hills and valleys (which help durability and bonding giving the polymer a surface to "bite" against - example sanding before painting) the polymer will tend to want to fill in these voids as well, and will be negated by the oils. If any oils are trapped underneath.....what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat?



Nothing. The length scales are too small for any differential thermal expansion to matter.



All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............
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Do you think a sealant can be made less durable than a carnauba wax under these circumstances then?
 
2 cents from a neophyte...



My car has relatively good paint (6 months old),

color is metallic "tactile" (whatever that is) grey...



The paint has been clayed twice and 1Z (metallic) polished

the last 6 months (and of course, numerous Dawn)

Everything was done manually - no power tool.



These are my subjective observations:



1. Dri Wash: Not impressive, expensive.

(not even closed compared to Autopia QD method which

is also easier)

2. Costco's zymol cleaner wax (according to some malicious

rumors - "zytle" cleaner wax). "Warm" kind of shine. Optically

not very clear. White residue everywhere!!!

3. Z1, Z2, Z6 - Sparkly, mirror-like reflection. Stand-out-in-the-crowd kind of way. Does not work quite well with this color (absolutely love it on my white suv). Super

slick. Easy to use. (no white stuff!!!)

4. NXT - Deeper shine than Z system. Not as slick as Z. Very tiny beads after rain. Easy to use. (no white stuff!!!) Hide swirls well. However, still not satisfy with the depth.

5. Project for this weekend: Remove NXT, then AOI, + Z2, + S100

(or pinnacle soveran).

6. Next weekend - see a shrink about this disease.

(dang, has not been this fr***ing unbalanced since that

cute blonde girl in my high school calculus class decades

ago)
 
For information only!!!!!!!-not affiliated in any way-my Klasse is on order but not from Classic, I am a NXT user currently.





The below graphic is what really turns me on to Klasse. Now I just have to have it (yes, the Porche depicted, as well) :o



KlasseHome.jpg
 
Quote: There are many different mechanisms for adhesion. How does epoxy stick to atomically flat sapphire, then?



~One mans opinion / observation~



Adherence:

When Carnauba wax, a synthetic wax or polymer acrylics harden during the curing process they bond (adhere) to a paint film surface primarily by surface tension the balance of the adherence process is that it works its way (via the solvent and oils) into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the paint film surface thereby creating an anchor.



Not as colourful as the “what helps a Gecko to hang upside down’ but it’s all I got ;)



~Hope this helps~





Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
 
The Uncle said:
There are fairly consistent reports at this site that Wal-mart and Advance Auto Part are already stocking NXT. Of course, there aren't many Wal-Marts in the immediate LA area.
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I can't find it ANYWHERE locally, Kragen had 4 bottles they said and they sold them in hours. No other stores locally have it, Walmart had the car wash for a week a few months back, it's gone. Target just has the spray wax. I called every local autoparts store for 2 weeks before I had to buy it online.
 
CarWeenie said:
HotRodGuy,



Try Target - they should be well-stocked.

(in my area, Kragen st*nks - they only have

stuff like Nu-Finish)
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I've tried EVERYWHERE unfortunately. Just found one place that had it for $18 a bottle, but had just gotten mine from meguiars online.
 
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