GoGTIgo said:
Well the guy wants another 6 hours worth of da to rectify the current situation (at my cost). He also will not commit to the issues being resolved at that point. Meaning they could come back again..He firmly believes that the rinse off caused the "new" water spots and does not agree with TOGWT's post on etching re-occurring even after a heavy da polish. Of course, I think he never completely "neutralized" the original acids in the first place, though he most likely honestly tried.
He has read this thread but doesn't want to post, nor does he want me to weigh the input of you here, wanting to keep your thoughts as "opinions". Well, sheesh, its my opinion, his opinion, and photos, (pre and post) that's all either of us have. He never recorded the thickness of the paint pre detail, nor post detail, so in actuality I have no idea if he took any clear off in the first place. Nor, any photos of the actual detail, other than the one pertaining to the hood.
At this point it is time to get a second and third professional opinion.
He has had the opportunity to post up here, ask for help, since nobody everytime gets it right, all the time..and he has opted not to.
At time of delivery he said he did his best on the honeycomb grill areas, yet a couple days later, I was able to clean and strip the deposits from said areas with megs #39 and a child's toothbrush...tells me otherwise. Plus, after I posted asking for help on the same areas, he then posted up that he could in fact rectify those areas with another product that he then ordered. That's just not the way I do things.
I never blinked at all when he quoted me the price, he was paid in full, even after seeing the car 2 times prior to payment.
Im not going to pay him for more work, just to have the next rinse bring back the same spots in a week or so.
In regards to the above post^
This is Tim from Adonis Detail in San Diego where Thomas had his 2012 GTI detailed on the 28th of July.
I have been in communication with Thomas about these issues for the past week or so and have followed the progress of this thread and the other one he has posted on Detailingbliss looking for answers to some of the problems he has encountered. Both Autopia and Detailingbliss are constructive and informational forums regarding detailing supplies, information, techniques etc. They are open to discussion for anyone to comment and ad suggestions too. As all of you probably know each situation is unique and it's hard to really make a clear judgement without seeing the subject in person and hearing all of the details. I wanted to keep from commenting on the forums about this because history has showed that things can quickly derail from being a fact based discussion to an intense heated "debate" in no time. :ranger: Now i want to get the facts straight so that we can get things resolved.
I am constantly following the forums for the latest tips, tricks and products but i do also believe that things can be distorted and mis-interpreted. So for me the best resource has always been from practical application, testing the combination then reviewing the results to see what works and then adjusting from there.
About a week prior to the actual detail Thomas and I met for an initial inspection/quote. The main concern Thomas brought up was the large amount of water spots covering the front end of the vehicle. I noted other areas that needed attention as well like two spots on the right rear C Pillar from a PDR guy marring the finish. Other than that we determined a timeframe, a price and a scheduled a date for the detail.
I received the car at about 9am on Saturday the 28th. I began the wash process with the rims by using Sonax FE wheel cleaner along with various brushes. Tires were cleaned with APC cut 3:1.
I then moved onto the bodywork, an initial rinse was followed by 2 separate foam baths with CG citrus wash along with an Uber foam pad and two wash buckets with grit guards.
Upon drying the vehicle it was now clear the extent of the water spotting. The whole front end, bumper, side fenders, hood, grille and windshield was crystallized in calcium buildup/water spots.
The car was then given an thorough IPA wipe down solution of about 60/40 which i have found to work better on metallic paint jobs. Trim pieces were taped off and i selected and taped off a practice section. After a couple initial combination i determined that a MF cutting disc with D300 would completely cut out all the defects on the windshield, fenders, bumper and headlights. The hood required Surbuf and M105 to completely cut out the defects followed by D300 and MF cutting discs, then the entire car was finished with M205 and an Uber Green finishing pad. The is extremely soft and Menzerna 106FA was leaving a slight haze and 85rd wasn't cutting out the 2nd step haze but M205 worked like a champ.
Below are 50/50's after an IPA wipe down on the Hood:
And then completely finished after LSP was applied.
As was evident the condition following the polishing steps and IPA wipe down was such that i was confident in proceeding to apply LSP as i could not see even an a faint outline of any water spots. Wolfs Body Wrap was then applied throughout the vehicle with a DA and black Uber pad.
The interior was then treated, as well as the engine bay.
Thomas and his GF then picked up the car that evening around 6PM and seemed to be thrilled with the outcome, massive amount of reflection off the paint, great clarity and crazy definition of the metallic flakes throughout. After circling around the car a few times and kneeling around to take a closer look Thomas pointed out a couple areas underneath the headlight housing as well as the front grille area that still had slight water spot etching. These areas were not reachable with any type of DA or hand polisher. They were cleaned several time with APC and IPA wipe downs then Wolfs Trim Coat was applied. There was a significant improvement as they weren't visible outside 1 foot but i agreed that another product that i didn't currently have might be able to take care of the remainder of the etching (CG Water Spot Remover). I agreed to set up another date once i received that product to remove as much as possible of the areas that weren't reachable before.
Now about a week later i got a phone call saying the spots have returned after a "rinse at a coin-op". I immediately scheduled a time to drive 30 min down to their house and see what he was talking about. There was once again water etching on the front hood, fenders and rear trunk. I had difficulty understanding what could have possibly happened as everything was corrected out prior to the "coin op rinse".
A couple possible scenarios i thought could have caused these water spots to come back:
A) The defects weren't cut out deep enough so the water "re introduced" them back into the surface.
- That could be a possibility, but if the defects weren't cut out they would be visible under the three light sources used. Halogen, LED and Sunlight. In addition Wolfs Nano Sealant was then applied making it impossible for the rinse water to "soak in" and "rehydrate" the water etching. (If this is possible please correct me but it just doesn't make sense to me.)
B) The defects weren't cut out and they were hidden by a glaze/polish then rinsed off during the rinse.
- First of all i do not own any glaze type products. The closest thing i have to a glaze is CG blacklight and that is closer to a LSP/Final step polish than a glaze. In addition, the IPA wipe downs before, during and after polishing would ensure that the polishing oils weren't masking defects. Whether they were above the surface (Water spots) or below the surface (Scratches, marring, water etching etc.). And finally, anybody who has used a nano based sealant, Aquartz, Wolfs Cquartz etc. can comment on the ability for that sealant to be the "light of truth" so to speak. These sealants absolutely enhance the paint finish but in the process they can enhance any areas that weren't properly finished as well.
C) The rinse water from the coin op caused the water spots to be re introduced.
- The rinse water was most likely tap water that wasn't filtered. Thomas didn't comment on whether it was in a shaded area or not but i'm going to assume it is. So the car was probably pulled into the stall after a drive in the 80*+ weather So Cal has been experiencing. So the paint was probably hot, the hood obviously being heated the most from the sun and engine temps. Once the water was hosed onto the vehicle the heat in addition to the water caused water spots to occur. In these conditions it could happen in seconds. Then i was told a wipe down with Adams QD and MF towel was performed and the spots were seen "almost immediately".
Now that i have added my side of the facts to the equation let's open this up to discussion.
