My Ultima Experience

chml17l said:
Ouch! But, I do appreciate your honest opinion. Your touchless wash technique is intriguing, could you explain your process?
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Really long story short....



1. Vintage as LSP

2. Using a pressure sprayer, thoroughly rinse the vehicle

3. Apply a layer of foam using my foam cannon. I use 3 oz of CG's CW&G, 1 oz of Zaino Z7, and 28 oz of water in my one quart foam cannon bottle.

4. Let the foam dwell for a couple of minutes.

5. Thoroughly pressure rinse the foam off

6. Use open hose method to sheet rinse/dry car

7. Use leaf blower to completely dry the car.



The most important things to achieve a completely clean car using a touchless wash: 1. LSP that will easily release contaminants 2. A soap that is strong enough to clean without mechanical agitation, yet gentle enough to leave your LSP on your vehicle. 3. A good, high pressure pressure washer with a wide angle nozzle.



A long time ago, there was a great post here about "minimizing the potential" for washing-induced swirls. There are a great number of ways you can do this... two bucket method, using BHB's and other gentle wash media, etc. But the ultimate way to "minimize the potential" of washing induced swirls and marring is to simply not touch the paint at all during the wash. That's why this particular score is so important to me. While UPGP is closer to achieving this than any sealant I've tried so far, it's still not good enough.
 
z06meister said:
Just curious which Zaino you are talking about? CS or the Z#p?



I never have any problems with this but everybodies environment is different.
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I didn't use CS long enough to really see how well it releases surface contaminants, but I must say I never really saw too much of a difference.



I never "had any problems" with Zaino, either. It's just that it wouldn't leave the car clean using a touchless method.



I never had any problems getting Zaino'd cars clean using a traditional wash.



I think that's where everyone gets stuck... They think that I'm saying Zaino'd cars don't come clean when you wash them. That's not it at all. They don't come clean using my preferred method is all I'm saying.
 
cdodkin said:
Nice report :2thumbs:



I don't use the touchless wash method myself, but I've been paying attention to how the PGP protects the finish against bug guts, sprinkler over-spray, etc etc.



I'm doing a long term outdoor test on my VW, which sits out 24x7 in CA sunshine, and with regular moisture from costal (read salty) breezes.



I put together a short video to show how the PGP cleans up with a 'regular' shampoo and mitt wash - so people could get an idea.



It's here: http://autopia.org/forum/ultima/95078-ultima-test-video.html



Hope that helps with the discussion.
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That is number two on my list of things that are important in an LSP. Unfortunately, it's also pretty hard to test right now. Most of the bugs are gone, and the trees aren't dropping sap. Can't wait to read your findings.
 
cdodkin said:
No problem - we can do an autopia shoot and post the results :bounce :bounce :bounce
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SoCal Ultima Porsche detailing AND Canon DP tips....oh boy oh boy, where do I sign-up?!!! :bounce



:)
 
Well, this past week I had a chance to take the Charger on a pretty good drive through some very nasty weather, as well as through road construction consisting of fresh tar. On the way back home, they had salted/sanded the roads due to the snow storm. As much as it pained me to do so, I let the stuff sit on my paint for two days before washing it. I had tar, salt, and water spots on my car.



I ran it through my favorite coin operated touchless wash. I was very pleased at how much of the gunk was removed with a touchless wash. Not all of it, but alot. I drove directly home from the touchless wash and proceeded with an ONR wash. I'm very happy to report that none of the nasty contaminants had penetrated the 3 coats of UPGP and attached to the clear coat. Very gentle agitation (Grout Sponge..woot!) was all that was necessary to remove all the gunk, and there were no marks left behind indicating a removal of the LSP; the UPGP toughed it out. Guys, this is some seriously good sealant. David has done very, very well with formulating this stuff.



Standard disclaimer applies for this score: The baseline is Vintage's environmental protection which scores a ten. Nothing gets through this stuff and adheres to the clear coat, and it also does not require mechanical agitation to remove even the toughest contaminants to a freshly applied coat of Vintage.



UPGP Environmental Protection score: 8.5



This sealant provides *very good* environmental protection. Combine that with outstanding looks, what appears to be great durability so far, relative ease of application... It's just a winning product. I think even the hard-core Zainoites would be converted.;)



If I was going to use a sealant based LSP for winter protection, this would be *the* stuff. Actually, I think I will keep it on the Sequoia through the harsh Salt Lake winter.
 
thanks for the update. While not as scientific, I have found similar results with it's ability to allow simple removal of all sorts of grime incl dried bird droppings etc and am very impressed with both the looks and apparent protection so far.



My only real gripe so far is that it just doesnt seem to release water very well. I mean that it beads well but doesnt sheet water off the paint like a wax and in fact an open rinse with a hose leaves a lot of water on the car. Last night I washed my wife's SUV (that has 2 x UPGP) and sheeted off as much water as possible and then took it for a 70mph drive for a couple of miles. It still had a fair amount of water on it afterwards!



Compared to my experiences with Zymol Titanium and Glasur, which allow almost all the water to sheet off after a simple rinse, this makes my desired touchless wash and dry quite tough and even with my water filter i still get water spots on the dark coloured paint. I recently got a leaf blower and will use this more but it doesnt do quite enough to dry the car....
 
SuperBee364 said:
10/7/7 Edit:



Just noticed that the bottles in the Ultima Sampler Kit say that they were manufactured by Four Star Products. Four Star Product's web site has their usual product line up, but the product names and descriptions are *very* similar to Ultima's. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but do we have another Chemical Guy's/Adams situation going here, or are the Ultima products truly a different formulation than Four Star's regular line up? Think I'll pick up a couple bottles of Four Star's similar products for comparison.
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Any more info on this? Are the Ultima products made by Four Star?
 
Rob Tomlin said:
Any more info on this? Are the Ultima products made by Four Star?
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"....Who Owns ULTIMA?



People are going to ask this, so I might as well address it up front. The ULTIMA brand is owned by Premium Auto Care, LLC. This partnership and its operating agreement is being established specifically for the sales and distribution of the ULTIMA and Polycharger brands. Four Star Products has the exclusive chemical manufacturing agreement for these brands....."



As SpoiledMan said it was never a secret. The above info was taken from the following thread:



http://autopia.org/forum/ultima/85252-rdf-ultima-tm.html
 
Bigpikle said:
thanks for the update. While not as scientific, I have found similar results with it's ability to allow simple removal of all sorts of grime incl dried bird droppings etc and am very impressed with both the looks and apparent protection so far.



My only real gripe so far is that it just doesnt seem to release water very well. I mean that it beads well but doesnt sheet water off the paint like a wax and in fact an open rinse with a hose leaves a lot of water on the car. Last night I washed my wife's SUV (that has 2 x UPGP) and sheeted off as much water as possible and then took it for a 70mph drive for a couple of miles. It still had a fair amount of water on it afterwards!



Compared to my experiences with Zymol Titanium and Glasur, which allow almost all the water to sheet off after a simple rinse, this makes my desired touchless wash and dry quite tough and even with my water filter i still get water spots on the dark coloured paint. I recently got a leaf blower and will use this more but it doesnt do quite enough to dry the car....
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Bigpike - I've had the opposite experience



Excellent beading when dirty, and great sheeting from the hose when clean



See QT Video demo on my VW



http://www.dodkin.com/iMovies/Ultima-water-1.mov



So what have we done differently?



I did PPP then PGP on the VW - wash with NXT Shampoo
 
cdodkin said:
Bigpike - I've had the opposite experience



Excellent beading when dirty, and great sheeting from the hose when clean



See QT Video demo on my VW



http://www.dodkin.com/iMovies/Ultima-water-1.mov



So what have we done differently?



I did PPP then PGP on the VW - wash with NXT Shampoo
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wow - had seen that before but not really picked up on the difference between the sheeting on our cars....



I have it on 2 cars now. My Saab was completely stripped of Zymol, clayed, PPP applied by UDM and now has 5 layers of PGP. My wife's Honda has 3 layers now, but over Jeffs prime Acrylic and multiple layers of AJT. I know that is not ideal, but BOTH cars behave identically.....



I live in a hard water area but have used tap water and also softened water with the same result. Used either Autoglym, Ultima and now Duragloss shampoos with no visible difference in the results. I use a watering can so will try a hose like you did instead. I used to get the exact same, or maybe even better, sheeting from Zymol stuff on both cars which makes it more disappointing so far with PGP.



Thanks for instilling some hope that I may be able to get better results, as this is the only thing making me hesitate before making Ultima my LSP of choice right now.



:brit



UPDATE



OK, after extensive further testing :lol I tried exactly what you were doing in your video eg hose and NO attachment, lowest possible flow rate, and i achieved a much better finish with considerably less remaining water. I think I need to be better with my technique than i was, and amazingly just taking off the open fitting from the hose end made a huge difference to the splashing that was left.



Good one - another learning... :thumb: PGP gets even better for me
 
Bigpikle said:
wow - had seen that before but not really picked up on the difference between the sheeting on our cars....



I have it on 2 cars now. My Saab was completely stripped of Zymol, clayed, PPP applied by UDM and now has 5 layers of PGP. My wife's Honda has 3 layers now, but over Jeffs prime Acrylic and multiple layers of AJT. I know that is not ideal, but BOTH cars behave identically.....



I live in a hard water area but have used tap water and also softened water with the same result. Used either Autoglym, Ultima and now Duragloss shampoos with no visible difference in the results. I use a watering can so will try a hose like you did instead. I used to get the exact same, or maybe even better, sheeting from Zymol stuff on both cars which makes it more disappointing so far with PGP.



Thanks for instilling some hope that I may be able to get better results, as this is the only thing making me hesitate before making Ultima my LSP of choice right now.



:brit



UPDATE



OK, after extensive further testing :lol I tried exactly what you were doing in your video eg hose and NO attachment, lowest possible flow rate, and i achieved a much better finish with considerably less remaining water. I think I need to be better with my technique than i was, and amazingly just taking off the open fitting from the hose end made a huge difference to the splashing that was left.



Good one - another learning... :thumb: PGP gets even better for me
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Yep - hose-end removal is the key - nice smooth flow with no splashing



Makes drying a breeze!



Ex Pat :brit
 
cdodkin said:
Ex Pat :brit
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where from?



My office is in Escondido and has just escaped the fires... I spend about 5 weeks per year in the SD area around Rancho Bernardo and Escondido mostly and just got back again a few weeks ago. Often considered a move but the family isnt keen....



Saw your photo website - very nice work. Photography is my other passion and maybe one day a sideline. Cant get it to pay what I need now though :)
 
Bigpikle said:
where from?



My office is in Escondido and has just escaped the fires... I spend about 5 weeks per year in the SD area around Rancho Bernardo and Escondido mostly and just got back again a few weeks ago. Often considered a move but the family isnt keen....



Saw your photo website - very nice work. Photography is my other passion and maybe one day a sideline. Cant get it to pay what I need now though :)
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Lincolnshire. :brit



Your office dodged a bullet for sure - fires are bad here and the smoke here on the coast has been a killer as well



I'll no doubt be doing a post on Ultima and ash protection before too long! :bawling:
 
cdodkin said:
Lincolnshire. :brit



Your office dodged a bullet for sure - fires are bad here and the smoke here on the coast has been a killer as well



I'll no doubt be doing a post on Ultima and ash protection before too long! :bawling:
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I hope you make it through OK. Many of my colleagues have lost everything in the last few days but so far nobody seems to have suffered any injury. I hope it stays that way...:sadwavey:
 
Wow, four and a half months already?



The Charger hasn't seen *alot* of this winter's nastiness, but it has gotten mucked up a fair bit the last four months. I purposely haven't done any touch-based washings on it since the one I did right after the third coat of UPGP was applied. I wanted to see how well it would fare after an entire winter's worth of salt, dirt, snow, and all the other Salt Lake City nastiness, with just touchless washes. I'm very impressed. Yes, there is some stuff on the car that isn't going to come off until the next time I give it a touch based wash, but for the most part, the results are very good. A trip through the local touchless pressure wash still leaves the car looking good. It has provided better overall environmental protection through the winter than any other sealant I've used. It has also survived around 12 automated pressure washes.



I know that everyone here enjoys the good ole "how can you even tell if an LSP is still on your car" argument. Gawd knows there's enough locked threads on that one, but... *In my opinion* the UPGP is still on the paint. Can we please avoid an ensuing argument about this, and take ole supe at his word?



I have a bunch of cars lined up for spring details, and UPGP is going to be my go-to sealant for all of them. *In my opinion* it is a top notch product.



I still have my doubts about UPGP's 12 month durability claim, however there's not a chance I'll be able to test this for myself; the Vintage simply can not stay in it's container much longer. Spring is almost here.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Wow, four and a half months already?



The Charger hasn't seen *alot* of this winter's nastiness, but it has gotten mucked up a fair bit the last four months. I purposely haven't done any touch-based washings on it since the one I did right after the third coat of UPGP was applied. I wanted to see how well it would fare after an entire winter's worth of salt, dirt, snow, and all the other Salt Lake City nastiness, with just touchless washes. I'm very impressed. Yes, there is some stuff on the car that isn't going to come off until the next time I give it a touch based wash, but for the most part, the results are very good. A trip through the local touchless pressure wash still leaves the car looking good. It has provided better overall environmental protection through the winter than any other sealant I've used. It has also survived around 12 automated pressure washes.



I know that everyone here enjoys the good ole "how can you even tell if an LSP is still on your car" argument. Gawd knows there's enough locked threads on that one, but... *In my opinion* the UPGP is still on the paint. Can we please avoid an ensuing argument about this, and take ole supe at his word?



I have a bunch of cars lined up for spring details, and UPGP is going to be my go-to sealant for all of them. *In my opinion* it is a top notch product.



I still have my doubts about UPGP's 12 month durability claim, however there's not a chance I'll be able to test this for myself; the Vintage simply can not stay in it's container much longer. Spring is almost here.
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Hey, Bro!



Haven't seen you in a while! Glad to see you back!:woot2:
 
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