My Ultima Experience

I'm not gonna sit here an argue over (flawed) logic, but that statements is just plain incorrect.



There is a level of detail that a digital photo can obtain. The level of surface preperation (swirls/defects/scratches) is within that range as long as the picture is lit correctly. The level of detail necessary to see differences between LSP's is *out* of the digital pictures range of detail.



I'm not:argue, simply discussing. Apparently, your not following, the fact is this thread is centered on what Ultima looks like, ooohing and ahhing over pictures based on the look of the LSP, correct?



SuperBee364 said:
It's like having a microscope, and having a scanning electron microscope; one is capable of seeing things the other can not. Yes, digital photographs capture the level of detail *to a degree*, and not beyond it. Just because it is capable of catching one degree, does not mean it is capable of the other.
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My post and yours is simply not a discussion of logic, rather a discussion over what a photo can represent, and if you want to examine logical validity that statement is a fallacy.



Look, I am merely saying that a photo can represent LSP's to an extent, just as they represent surface prep to an extent.
 
To add some fuel to the fire around what differences you can see between LSPs when using digital photography.



Here's a Boxster finished with the Klasse twins after prep with Sonus Swirlbuster:



klasse.jpg




And here's the same vehicle, with same prep, now finished with Ultima PGP:



IMG_4196.jpg




IMG_4194.jpg




IMG_4188.jpg




I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions. (And yes, I know the lighting is different!!)



:2thumbs:
 
How can you say it is the LSP that is making your finish looking different, at least based on the photos alone. You admit yourself the lighting is different. The photos were taken during different times of the day, at completely different angles, and you're under a tent on the Ultima pictures.



That's like a scientist claiming something as fact when his experiments didn't have a control group.



For photos, there are some things you can control. A tripod can make your photos stationary and taken from the same exact position. Exposure levels and aperture can be set on an SLR. Unfortunately if the photo is taken outdoors, I don't think there's a way one can remove the previous LSP and put another layer on quick enough where the sun's position hasn't changed and will affect the outcome of the photo.



Again, I'm not saying you can't see the difference in person. I'm just saying that based on photos alone, unless you can minimize the variables that can affect how a photo turns out, you can't say for sure the LSP is the reason why the paint looks different.
 
Good thread, I know I can never leave WOWA sealents alone after application but I think I just apply them too heavy. I'm mostly interested in how UPGP protects against tar and sap.
 
BlackElantraGT said:
How can you say it is the LSP that is making your finish looking different, at least based on the photos alone. You admit yourself the lighting is different. The photos were taken during different times of the day, at completely different angles, and you're under a tent on the Ultima pictures.



That's like a scientist claiming something as fact when his experiments didn't have a control group.



For photos, there are some things you can control. A tripod can make your photos stationary and taken from the same exact position. Exposure levels and aperture can be set on an SLR. Unfortunately if the photo is taken outdoors, I don't think there's a way one can remove the previous LSP and put another layer on quick enough where the sun's position hasn't changed and will affect the outcome of the photo.



Again, I'm not saying you can't see the difference in person. I'm just saying that based on photos alone, unless you can minimize the variables that can affect how a photo turns out, you can't say for sure the LSP is the reason why the paint looks different.
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Actually I said 'I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions'



I never claimed anything - read the post!
 
Frito Bandito said:
Good thread, I know I can never leave WOWA sealents alone after application but I think I just apply them too heavy. I'm mostly interested in how UPGP protects against tar and sap.
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That's the point I'm at in the testing, too. The two most important properties an LSP can have for me are ease of cleaning and environmental protection.



Today the ease of cleaning test was partially completed. My car was fairly dirty after two day's of rain and a couple hundred miles driven in it. Today was a sunny day. Perfect for trying out the touchless wash to see exactly how clean UPGP would come without any wash media coming in contact with the paint. Unfortunately, I didn't have any tree sap, bug marks, or road tar on the paint to *really* give it a good test; just two days of rain, dirt, and water spots.



Now keep in mind that I am scoring the UPGP's ability to easily come clean using Vintage as a baseline score. Vintage scores a perfect 10. It completely releases whatever is on the car and comes *completely* clean using my touchless wash method.



I was quite impressed with the UPGP. It did much better than Zaino did in this test, but (as to be expected) it just couldn't keep up with the Vintage. Most of the stuff came off the paint, but there was still a bit of road film and water spots on the horizontal surfaces. I really wish I would have had some tree sap, road tar, and bug guts for this test, but I still think the car was dirty enough to get a pretty accurate idea of how easily this LSP comes clean.



Ease of Cleaning: 7 out of 10.



Pretty darn good for a sealant based LSP.
 
chml17l said:
How would you rate Zaino for ease of cleaning?
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I knew that was going to be asked. In fact, I was dreading it...



Soooooooo many people claim that Zaino is an easy-to-clean LSP. I couldn't agree less. Using a touchless wash or very gentle wash media (such as a BHB) still leaves a Zaino'd vehicle quite dirty. Yet there are some people that swear that all you have to do is pretty much *look* at a Zaino'd car sternly and the dirt falls off of it. Well, I used it for almost four years as my primary LSP, and I never had that kind of luck. It was *always* necessary to use a wash mitt to get a Zaino'd finish clean. Yes, using a wash mitt would leave the car completely clean, but the whole point is to get an LSP that doesn't *need* a wash media to come completely clean. I always hate to post anything even slightly negative about Zaino, as the Zainoites come out of the wood work and start hating.



*In my opinion* (waits for people to post dissenting points of view) Zaino scores a 4.
 
SuperBee364 said:
*In my opinion* (waits for people to post dissenting points of view) Zaino scores a 4.
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Ouch! But, I do appreciate your honest opinion. Your touchless wash technique is intriguing, could you explain your process?
 
SuperBee364 said:
I knew that was going to be asked. In fact, I was dreading it...



Soooooooo many people claim that Zaino is an easy-to-clean LSP. I couldn't agree less. Using a touchless wash or very gentle wash media (such as a BHB) still leaves a Zaino'd vehicle quite dirty. Yet there are some people that swear that all you have to do is pretty much *look* at a Zaino'd car sternly and the dirt falls off of it. Well, I used it for almost four years as my primary LSP, and I never had that kind of luck. It was *always* necessary to use a wash mitt to get a Zaino'd finish clean. Yes, using a wash mitt would leave the car completely clean, but the whole point is to get an LSP that doesn't *need* a wash media to come completely clean. I always hate to post anything even slightly negative about Zaino, as the Zainoites come out of the wood work and start hating.



*In my opinion* (waits for people to post dissenting points of view) Zaino scores a 4.
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Just curious which Zaino you are talking about? CS or the Z#p?



I never have any problems with this but everybodies environment is different.
 
SuperBee364 said:
That's the point I'm at in the testing, too. The two most important properties an LSP can have for me are ease of cleaning and environmental protection.



Today the ease of cleaning test was partially completed. My car was fairly dirty after two day's of rain and a couple hundred miles driven in it. Today was a sunny day. Perfect for trying out the touchless wash to see exactly how clean UPGP would come without any wash media coming in contact with the paint. Unfortunately, I didn't have any tree sap, bug marks, or road tar on the paint to *really* give it a good test; just two days of rain, dirt, and water spots.



Now keep in mind that I am scoring the UPGP's ability to easily come clean using Vintage as a baseline score. Vintage scores a perfect 10. It completely releases whatever is on the car and comes *completely* clean using my touchless wash method.



I was quite impressed with the UPGP. It did much better than Zaino did in this test, but (as to be expected) it just couldn't keep up with the Vintage. Most of the stuff came off the paint, but there was still a bit of road film and water spots on the horizontal surfaces. I really wish I would have had some tree sap, road tar, and bug guts for this test, but I still think the car was dirty enough to get a pretty accurate idea of how easily this LSP comes clean.



Ease of Cleaning: 7 out of 10.



Pretty darn good for a sealant based LSP.
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Nice report :2thumbs:



I don't use the touchless wash method myself, but I've been paying attention to how the PGP protects the finish against bug guts, sprinkler over-spray, etc etc.



I'm doing a long term outdoor test on my VW, which sits out 24x7 in CA sunshine, and with regular moisture from costal (read salty) breezes.



I put together a short video to show how the PGP cleans up with a 'regular' shampoo and mitt wash - so people could get an idea.



It's here: http://autopia.org/forum/ultima/95078-ultima-test-video.html



Hope that helps with the discussion.
 
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