!!!!! Meguiar's Lab Sample "d"!!!!!

[Mike_Phillips]

Mike, I am not Deanski but here is your answer.



Z2 is not necessary if you are testing spiderweb filling and durability aspects of Zaino. Z2 can be applied at the end if you want to maximize the Zaino side's appearance ( the normal application procedure for a Zaino user). This would lead to a fairer final appearance comparison between LS D/E and Zaino without effecting the other two perimeters that you are analysizing.

Well here's what I did.



I applied the Z1, let dry for 30 minutes.



I then applied new Z2 directly over the Z1 and it has been drying for 20 minutes as I type. It looks like it has hazed and finished drying.



Can I remove this and then apply the new Z5? (directly over the Z2)



Or should I start over, strip the section, and only apply Z1 followed by Z5?



Just trying to get it correct. All the other products have been applied according to directions and removed.

 

[imported_memnuts]

You have 2 options that will yield equal results.

1roceed as you have started and layers Z5 x 4 or 5 layers as recommended by manufacturer. Top with Z2. Since you are not using ZFX you must wait 24 hours (curing) between coats. Therefore, no more Z today.

2: strip Z1/Z2 combo and reapply Z1 followed by Z5 x 4-5. each layer separated by 24 hours.



Personally, I would not start over because of the very minor corrective ability of Z2 will not skew the results. Also Z2 and Z5 are perfectly interchangeable in terms of layering.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Here's what I think I'll do,



The product appears to be completely dried. It is very warm and dry here in Southern California and there is a medium breeze blowing through the garage.



I'm going to mix up some Z5 with the ZFX and apply it after removing the Z2. (It's been drying for at least 30 minutes)



How does that sound?



Mike

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

holy jeebus!! I guess its time for me to start comming back to Autopia more often Do you guys need a winter test subject? My blazer and I would be more than happy to volunteer



PM if you think this is a possibility.... I'd love to compare this with some of the other popular polymers in harsh winter (Road Salt) conditions!

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Here's what I think I'll do,



The product appears to be completely dried. It is very warm and dry here in Southern California and there is a medium breeze blowing through the garage.



I'm going to mix up some Z5 with the ZFX and apply it after removing the Z2. (It's been drying for at least 30 minutes)



How does that sound?



Mike

I would've put the Z5 on BEFORE the Z2 personally, but that works I guess :nixweiss

 

[imported_memnuts]

Mike,

if you mean buff off the Z2 and apply a coat of Z5/ZFX you my be setting yourself up for criticism later about your findings. You are topping a non-cured coat (Z1/Z2) with a instant curing coat. Uncharted waters even for me.

Either allow Z1/Z2 to cure 24 hours and then apply 3 coats Of Z5/ZFX tomorrow or better yet strip of the Z1/Z2, hide the Z1, and only use ZFX fortified Z5 followed with Z2. Taking this ZFZ only route you can have 3 coats on your test area done in about 1.5 hours.



Shiny Lil Detail ( welcome back) :bounce

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

Either allow Z1/Z2 to cure 24 hours and then apply 3 coats Of Z5/ZFX tomorrow.

Yup, just keep it simple. Apply 3 coats of ZFX/Z-5 tomorrow.



In my experience, Z-5 doesn't do much in terms of filling in swirls....but it sure is durable. I'm really looking forward to hearing your results!

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Mike,

if you mean buff off the Z2 and apply a coat of Z5/ZFX you my be setting yourself up for criticism later about your findings. You are topping a non-cured coat (Z1/Z2) with a instant curing coat. Uncharted waters even for me.

Yep, that's what I just did on the deck lid. I read your post to late. So if this is the straw that breaks the camels back in this system, then I'll have to start it over again on the deck lid.



Now as for the hood. I was going to test Medallion against Lab Sample E, but after hearing GeekySteve and BretFraz tell everyone that in their experience Zaino provides the longest lasting protection of any product they have ever tested, it kind of forces me to take my queue from the guru's.



I question whether or not Zaino lasts longer, or more importantly, protects better, especially after reading the first page or two of this thread,



#20 provided better protection than Zaino....



But at the same time, I want to conduct my own test and give every product the benefit of the doubt. That is the fair thing to do. I will also perform every test with integrity and to the best of my ability. Hopefully my trusty camera can capture the results so nobody will have to rely solely on my word.



With that said, here's what I have done to the hood of this Honda Acura Legend.



Washed entire car with Dawn, washed hood twice with Dawn, clayed car with Dawn wash solution, washed hood again with Dawn to remove any clay or loosened contaminants.



Towel dried.



Wiped hood and deck lid down with 50/50 mixture of Isopropyl Alcohol, twice on the deck lid, 4 times for the hood.



I think most people would agree the deck lid and the hood are now stripped of any oils, waxes, silicones or other previously applied products.



To the hood,



Drivers side

Applied one coat of Lab Sample E. Allowed to cure until swipe test showed it to be dry. This was about 15 minutes.



Passengers Side

Applied one coat of Z1 Polish Lok with NO ZFX.



Instructions say,



Allow to haze, do not wipe off.



It has been 50 minutes as I type, the application of Z1 looks to be completely dried to a haze.



I have 1 ounce of new Z5 with 5 drops of ZFX mixed up and ready to apply. Instructions on ZFX box say,



* Squirt dime size dab of polish on your applicator and rub it into your paint using back and forth hand motions.



* Allow the polish to haze, (dry), for 30 minutes and remove with a high quality, 100% cotton towel.



Then down below, it goes on to say that I am now ready to apply your next coat of ZFX. There is no need to wait. Apply no more than three coats of ZFX in a 24 hour period. For optimum results use enabled ZFX within 6 hours of mixing.



So as after I hit the submit button, I will go out and apply my first coat, or layer of new Z5 enabled with ZFX.



I will then wait for 30 minutes, and apply the second coat. I will then wait for 30 minutes and apply the 3rd coat.



During this period, I will apply one more application of Lab Sample E, for a total of 2 thin coats.



Does anyone see any problems with this plan?



p.s.

My camera time is one hour off. (I'll fix it now)

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

maybe I missed this from reading the thread, but do these "lab samples" form "layers/multi-coats"??

 

[Mike_Phillips]

maybe I missed this from reading the thread, but do these "lab samples" form "layers/multi-coats"??

Meguiar's has always recommended that 2-3 thin coats are better than one coat, and especially, one thick coat.



That said, the chemist did say that these polymers have the ability to bond to themselves. As of this time, nobody here has tried more than 2-3 coats on any given test.



Other companies, (not just Zaino), endorse the idea of layering one application of product over a previous applications.



Supposedly, the effect is to,



* Build up a layer of protection, (I take this to mean a film-build)



* Make the paint darker and darker with each application, (no end in sight?)



* Make the paint shinier and shinier with each application, (again, no end in sight, or limit as to how shiny the finish can get?)



Maybe someone can clarify if I have misunderstood, but... that's what I've read over the last few years. Heck, I've read where some people have 30/60/90 layers of product on their cars finish.



Anyway, I applied the ZFX enabled Z5, directly over the top of the dried Z1 starting at approximately 12:30pm pacific standard time.



I then applied a second coat of ZFX enabled Z5 to the test section on the deck lid. Note: blkZ28Conv pointed out that I will be applying fast curing Z5 over a coat of Z2 that only cured for about 50 minutes without ZFX. So the test is probably completely worthless. But, it's too late to start over, so I'll assume that while the Z2 didn't get to cure for 24 hours, it's probably only microns thin, and by applying multiple applications of ZFX enabled Z5 over it, I should still get an inkling of how this product performs overall.



Here's a picture of the first coat of the ZFX enabled Z5 applied to the passengers side hood. Application was at approximately 12:30 pm and by the clock on my computer, I should be able to remove it shortly after posting this.



Remember, no surface prep was done to the hood of this car except for washing with Dawn, Claying, and then Alcohol wipe-down.



After this test is over, I will prep both sides of the hood and test again. This is just to see what these two products will look like to Joe Consumer's car.

 

[imported_Dude]

I don't know that you can use both Z1 AND ZFX. I thought that you apply a Z1 coat, and then a Z2/Z5 coat; you don't add any ZFX at all.



ZFX is supposed to replace Z1.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I don't know that you can use both Z1 AND ZFX. I thought that you apply a Z1 coat, and then a Z2/Z5 coat; you don't add any ZFX at all.



ZFX is supposed to replace Z1.

you can mix, just not at the same time. If I read what Mike has done correctly, he applied Z1, then a coat of non-enhanced Z2. He then allowed the Z2 to cure for 24 hours and applied 3 coats of ZFX-enhanced Z5. This is definitely a valid method, although not a method most people would choose.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Supposedly, the effect is to,



* Build up a layer of protection, (I take this to mean a film-build)



* Make the paint darker and darker with each application, (no end in sight?)



* Make the paint shinier and shinier with each application, (again, no end in sight, or limit as to how shiny the finish can get?)

I've also read about these 90+ coat instances, but I believe you would reach a point of diminishing returns... at some point along the way, those bottom-most layers would break down on a molecular level, giving way for an above layer to bond directly to the paint surface. The only way to disprove this would be somehow showing a continued and consistant increase in thickness of the protectant layer(s).



Also, with a "film build" you are implying a loss of reflection clarity which, while making the paint "darker" (by hiding the true color of the finish) would eventually make the paint less shiny.



To me, shine involves not only the capturing of light or "sparkle/shimmer" but also the accurate reflection of immages and refraction/reflection of the proper vehicle paint color. Eventually, this becomes impossible as you're really seeing the reflection of the product's color and not the paint underneath it. Granted, with today's products this would take an incredible ammount of layering but still would be possible.



Just saying that there are definitely limits to how much darkness and shininess a protectant product can have. I would venture that how dark and shiny a vehicle's true color can be is most dependant on the preparation product(s) used and not in the protectant, if the product is designed for "near perfect optical clarity" such as zaino (and assumedly this new meguiar's product) is.



:nixweiss

 

[Mike_Phillips]

you can mix, just not at the same time. If I read what Mike has done correctly, he applied Z1, then a coat of non-enhanced Z2. He then allowed the Z2 to cure for 24 hours and applied 3 coats of ZFX-enhanced Z5. This is definitely a valid method, although not a method most people would choose.

Close, but I only waited 50 minutes before applying the first application of Z5 with ZFX on the deck lid.



On the hood, after washing with Dawn, claying with Dawn wash solution, and then wiping down with alcohol/water 4 times, I applied Z1, (no ZFX), and then after over 30 minutes drying time, I applied Z5 using ZFX, (at the appropriate dilution levels).



I have just applied my second application of Z5 with ZFX at approximately 1:20 pst and will remove it at 2:00pm. I will then apply the third coat of Z5.



It looks like my mistake was applying the Z1 in the beginning. How much will that hurt this test?



Anyways, after the second application of products to the hood, I must say, with the light I have, their isn’t too much difference, at least not that the camera can pick up.



The cobweb effect is pretty bad on this hood and it looks like both sides of the hood will have to be machine polished before any relevant testing can be performed.



I will step out to remove this application and then apply the third coat. I’m done with the Lab Sample E side.

 

[TCL]

Meguiar's has always recommended that 2-3 thin coats are better than one coat, and especially, one thick coat.



That said, the chemist did say that these polymers have the ability to bond to themselves. As of this time, nobody here has tried more than 2-3 coats on any given test.



...

Mike, some other synthetic products recommend letting one coat cure anywhere between 4 and 24 hours (depending on the product) before applying another coat for proper bonding. What will be the recommendation for this new product? It would be nice if two layers could be applied in the same day.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

It looks like my mistake was applying the Z1 in the beginning. How much will that hurt this test?

shouldn't be a significant difference, the product will still bond to the surface; any better/worse is negledgable.

 

[imported_Intermezzo]

Note: blkZ28Conv pointed out that I will be applying fast curing Z5 over a coat of Z2 that only cured for about 50 minutes without ZFX. So the test is probably completely worthless. But, it's too late to start over, so I'll assume that while the Z2 didn't get to cure for 24 hours, it's probably only microns thin, and by applying multiple applications of ZFX enabled Z5 over it, I should still get an inkling of how this product performs overall.

That picture may very well be coming out different that it looks in person, but if I'm seeing it correctly, the Z application on the passenger side looks about ten times thicker than I normally apply it. **IMO** (& in my opinion only!), the *apparent* thickness in which you applied Z would affect results MUCH more than layering a few coats of Z-5 over uncured Z-2 (which i doubt would affect results too much at all).

 

[imported_memnuts]

A terrible mistake by using Z1-Z2 with total drying time of 90 minutes and than applying Z5/ZFX x 3? Probably, not. As I mentioned any unusual variation of longevity in terms of durability "may" be questioned because of the questionable (unusual) procedure used to set the foundation of the Zaino side. Like building a house, if the foundation is poorly established, anything build on top of it will also inherit this instablity. Is this a truism for Zaino? Uncharted waters.

Food for thought and an avenue for questioning your wonderful average Joe consumer comparison test.

These finer points can be addressed ( corrected) with the anally prepped Autopian/ Show Car Garage comparison test.



This could just be the picture angle, but you are using way too much Zaino. Very, very, very thin layer of product should be used. It should be barely invisible. Effect on results? Probably none. Just wasted product and increased drying time. :wavey



This reminds me of Autopia of old!!! :bow

 

[Deanski]

Mike,



No big deal in appying Z5 after Z2. However, Z5 has limited swirl hiding effect. If you use the ZFX/Z5 mix and get any haze after wipe-off after it dried, mix up 1/2 cap Z7 and 12oz distilled water and mist over effected area and wipe off. No more streaks!



Now, Z5 IMO, has very limited hiding, even with several coats. This is by no means a 3M IHG type. You have to shake up the Z5 bottle well prior to mixing.



After one coat of Zaino is dry and cured, mist over with Z6, wipe off and then apply your next coat of Zaino with ZFX to provide the best drying/curing. No need for Z1 if using ZFX.



After prep, I did my car with 3 coats ZFX/Z5 with Z6 between each coat, then 3 coats next day with ZFX/Z2 since it's clearcoated. Finding new Lexus paint not as hard as it used to be!!



Once I mix ZFX/Z5 or Z2, shake well, put it down and mist finish prior to application with Z6. Once done with Z6, then grap your mixed Zaino with ZFX and apply nice and thin as you well know.



Good luck with all the testing! Looks like you're off to a good start.



So, any name yet for the new Lab Samples?



Regards,

Deanski

 

[Mike_Phillips]

End of day results



What I think I reaffirmed today, was that surface prep is the most important factor in determining your end-results.



I was hoping that this new product would be able to take on major cobweb-effect without any surface prep for example, the PC with a W-8006 pad and #83 DACP.



At the same time, I had to test its limits, and I also want to test for longevity against another product popular for the same characteristic.



So while the end results were not what I hoped for, the test is still valid. Now that I have three coats of each product fully applied and dried to one half of each side of the hood, I will monitor the results over the next 4 weeks. I will only wash once a week using the Z7 car wash.



The sun is going down now, and it is hard to get a good picture. Also, if you will note the gold/yellowish color due to the smoke in the sky resulting from the Southern California fires.



Here is a picture of the Zaino side,