!!!!! Meguiar's Lab Sample "d"!!!!!

Tomorrow I will be starting some real-world longevity tests using the newest formula "Lab Sample E". The chemist in charge of this project told me that this is now the finalized formula.



One of the chemists has been doing longevity tests all along on his own collection of cars which includes both clear coats and single-stage finishes and he has already told me the durability is awesome.



I actually have a test spot of one of the earlier versions, (Lab Sample B, I think), smack dab in the middle of the hood and without going into details, you can easily see the spot where I applied it. This was back in June.



From the multiple cars I have applied this new product too, at this time it would be my first choice for a last step product, (LSP), for both protection and appearance benefits



The filling characteristic, clearness, and darkenss is what I really like so far, plus the scent.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
Is LS D & E just a "me-to" Zaino. Sounds like the results, appearance and short term beading ability are equal.
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I have tested Zaino, P21S, Pinnacle, and most of the rest of the waxes discussed here against Lab Sample E on both black single stage finishes and clear coat finishes, (over black base coat), and the darkness, clearness, and the ability to eliminate cobweb-effect of Lab Sample E is dramatically better in my opinion.



Of course, surface prep is the most important factor to determine your final results for any companies products and the nicer the results from your surface prep, the nicer the results from your last step product.



For some of my tests, hoods of cars were only washed with Dawn, then further stripped using a variety of chemical wipe-downs to insure a competely clean surface.



In other tests, the surface was first prepped using the normal Meguiar's paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes using a Porter Cable dual-action polisher and the Meguiar's W-8006 foam polishing pad.



Of course, the panels prepped with Meguiar's paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes always looked better than the panels only washed with Dawn and chemically cleaned.



That said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, thus your mileage may vary.



I don't think Lab Sample E is a me-to product any more than Z-6 is a me-to product for quick detailers, of which I think Meguiar's introduced the first quick detailer called "Trigger Wash" in the mid 1980's. (Since then, there have been a lot of me-to quick detailers)
 
Mike, narrow your scope. The me-to comes from this comparison:

Zaino a polymeric sealant with its accompanying dedicated polymeric re-enforcing QD - Z6.

LS D/E polymeric sealant with its accompanying polymeric re-enforcing QD.



Is this LS new cutting edge technology / chemistry, a completely different genre of paint protection and appearance. If so, great d I can not wait to try LS. Or just an improved polymeric sealant product. Again, if it does what testing has illustrated - Great. I am tired of shipping cost ( Meguiar's is normally available locally ).



Not being hard-core, just trying to get a grasp of what LS D/E is. :cool:
 
Mosca said:
Ahhhh, but can you put it over top of #7? ;) :D





Tom
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Hasn't Mike been putting it over stuff like Hand Polish and SFP and such? I doubt #7 would be any different. Plus, all other Meg's protectants can be used over a glaze.



Mosca, you're a regular on showcargarage, can you picture Mike recommending you Dawn wash first to remove any oils prior to using LSE? :eek: ;)
 
Hi blkZ28Conv,



blkZ28Conv said:
Mike, narrow your scope. The me-to comes from this comparison:



Zaino a polymeric sealant with its accompanying dedicated polymeric re-enforcing QD - Z6.



LS D/E polymeric sealant with its accompanying polymeric re-enforcing QD.
Click to expand...



According to your frame of reference, then yes, Lab Sample E is Polymer Protectant, with it’s own accompanying polymer booster protectant, (not a quick detailer, this product should not be used to remove light dust). Because words mean things, (just ask any lawyer), I carefully used the word, Protectant, in the above sentence, and not the word, wax, or sealant, even though all of these words can be used to describe products that accomplish the same goal, i.e. they protect the finish to which they are applied.



Neither the pure protectant, or the spray-on protectant, are waxes, per se, because neither of these two products contain any wax of any kind. So, in your comparison, then yes these two new products could be used in place of Zaino, BlackFire, UPP, and other products that are positioned as pure synthetic paint protectants. (Does anyone have a definitive list of pure synthetic paint protectants?)



Does that answer the first question?





Is this LS new cutting edge technology/chemistry, a completely different genre of paint protection and appearance. If so, great, I cannot wait to try LS.
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Yes.



I asked the chemists the exact same question. This formula was created from scratch using all new polymer chemistry. Just like Meguiar’s new Velocity line of Mold Release, and Mold Sealer products, (for the mold release industry), these new products are true, breakthroughs in that they use, brand new polymer chemistry.



Or just an improved polymeric sealant product. Again, if it does what testing has illustrated - Great. I am tired of shipping cost (Meguiar’s is normally available locally ).
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No.



This new product is not,



* #20 Polymer Sealant with the chemical cleaners removed.

* Medallion Premium Paint Protectant with the polishing oils removed

* #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax, (which is a blended wax, not a wax based solely upon carnauba), with the carnauba wax removed.

* Meguiar’s Cleaner Wax, (a wax that uses synthetic polymers, not wax), with the cleaners and polishing oils removed, etc.

* Gold Class with the polishing oils removed, and water beading ability added.



This is a completely new, fresh from the ground up, synthetic polymer formula.



Not being hard-core, just trying to get a grasp of what LS D/E is. :cool:
Click to expand...



I appreciate that. But… it’s also okay to be hard-core, I know I am and so are many Autopians. This new product will never replace everything on the market, our waxes, or any other companies products.



Sometime last spring I started testing this early versions of this product. One of the first things I did was hold a halogen light over the hood of a Mercedes-Benz ML500 to see what kind of effect it was having. The effect was to fill in and hide swirls and scratches, or what I like to call, cobweb-effect. Compared to other popular waxes on the web, it did a better job of anything I was testing.



I guess this got me a little excited because I have never seen a product that could do this before and I instantly saw the value in this feature for preparing show cars for display. Of course, serious enthusiasts like those here on Autopia would also like this feature for both their toys and daily drivers.



I am going to start a longevity test of my own today on a co-workers black Honda Acura. I will take some picture and post them to my website along with any comments.



Good questions blkZ28Conv. You made me think, and take time to write-up what hopefully are good answers to your questions. :xyxthumbs
 
Aurora40 said:
Hasn't Mike been putting it over stuff like Hand Polish and SFP and such? I doubt #7 would be any different. Plus, all other Meg's protectants can be used over a glaze.



Mosca, you're a regular on ShowCarGarage, can you picture Mike recommending you Dawn wash first to remove any oils prior to using LSE? :eek: ;)
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Never happen.



Dawn is a harsh detergent. Using simple common sense tells you that anytime you use a product that dulls the surface, you are thus working backwards, in the paint polishing process.



That is if your goal is to make the paint look good.



If your goal is maximum protection, then don't use water beading as an indicator of protection.



Water beading is only a visual indicator of high surface tension.



True, it is also a visual indicator that a film previously applied is still present on the surface, (assuming the surface didn't bead water before the film was applied), but it is not always an accurate indicator that the product you applied is actually protecting the surface from the things that would attack it.



I wrote all of the application bulletins and directions for using Meguiar's Velocity Mold Sealer and Mold Release products and this is a case where the polymers in these two products must properly bond to the surface or the company could potentially stick a mold, (a bad thing).



No where do we ever say the mold surface must be washed with Dawn, or any harsh detergent, (or mild soap for that matter), before applying the synthetic polymer Sealer and Release to the mold surface.



In fact, the last recommended step before applying these two polymer products is to polish the mold with Meguiar's #82 High Gloss Polish.



Dawn is good for dishes, bad for paint.



Of course, I always say,



"Find something you like and use it often"



So if you like washing your car's finish, (and other components made from rubber, vinyl and plastic), with a strong detergent wash then Dawn is a pretty good choice because it is a strong detergent soap.



As for me, I’ll stick to products that work forward in the polishing process.
 

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Thanks Mike, Yes your very informative response answered my questions. :bow



Unfortunately, the answers just increased my desire to work with this new product. A spray on polymer re-enforcer! :xyxthumbs

Can they move up the introduction date? :o
 
Hi blkZ28Conv,



I wish.



I'm actually pushing myself away from the keyboard to go upstaris and beg for another sample bottle from the lab to appy to the Honda. :D
 
Mike,



When is the projected release date for the new products?



Have they been incorporated into the Pro line as well? In other words, gallon containers and or a bit different product strength for professional application/detailers etc?



Also, how does this "Booster" interface with the product? Use before application or after to maintain gloss level and or to use as a prep for a second coat of the product if it is at all "buildable" or layering as spoken here?



Again, looks like a winner! Dying to see what this will do with #81 as a finish polish prior to the new product!!!



You're killing me!!! :bow I need a fix!



Regards,

Deanski
 
I'm wondering the same things plus if it is compatible with other sealants like SG. There needs to be a specific Lab Sample D FAQ website since there is so much interest!
 
Bill D said:
I'm wondering the same things plus if it is compatible with other sealants like SG. There needs to be a specific Lab Sample D FAQ website since there is so much interest!
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There may be a mini-faq for our next generation of products like Lab Sample E and Lab Sample E spray-on booster wax, and others.



One of these next generation products is really cool, if fact... I'm stepping outside to use it right now.



Oh yeah... I have asked for permission to upload photo's of the new products, and share the name with Autopia members as well as my forum at www.ShowCarGarage.com



If I get a yes, it will probably be this week or this weekend.
 
Deanski said:
Mike,



When is the projected release date for the new products?
Click to expand...



Product starts shipping in February.

Have they been incorporated into the Pro line as well? In other words, gallon containers and or a bit different product strength for professional application/detailers etc?
Click to expand...

Stay tuned

Also, how does this "Booster" interface with the product? Use before application or after to maintain gloss level and or to use as a prep for a second coat of the product if it is at all "buildable" or layering as spoken here?
Click to expand...



Use after to enhance and maintain the results created by applications of Lab Sample E.



Typically, products applied to the car's finish are not really layerable. I know that for some people this sounds like a great idea, but in reality... it's just not happening.



2-3 applications of anyone's product to an automotive finish and you will have reached the maximum potential that product has the ability to create on a particular finish as it exists at that time.



So if by layering you mean 2-3 applications, then yes it’s layerable. If you mean, can you keep applying the product and with each application, begin to build a measurable film-build, or the finish will get better and better and better with each application, then no, it’s not layerable.



Now follow me on this one…



Once you have reached the maximum potential of a specific car’s finish, another application of the same product will not take the results to a higher level. It will maintain the level you have previously created, but the idea that a clear coat can be come clearer, and clearer, is... well... ridiculous.



For example, say you have a piece of glass that is perfectly clear and perfectly clean. If we give this piece of glass a rating such as, 100% Optically Clear, how can an application of a film coating increase the rating to say, 101%?



Isn't 100% the maximum potential of the piece of glass? (I mean, if 100% doesn’t mean 100%, then what does it mean?)



Paint is actually dramatically more susceptible to change in its rating because paint is more easily dulled. So while some products can take a car's finish to its maximum potential, (as we all know), some products can easily dull a finish and thus move the appearance quality, or rating of a car's finish downward, away from its maximum potential. Contrast to glass which is usually only dulled through abrasion.



Point being, if your using a product that looks good in your eyes, and if you apply 2-3 coats in any given polishing session. After you wipe of the 2nd, or 3rd application, a 4th is not going to add or increase any visual aspect of the results your previously achieved with the 2nd or 3rd application.



Now... as time goes by and the results are diminished, say through washing or inclement weather, then, yes, re-application of your favorite product should quickly and easily restore the finish to the level the previous applications achieved. That is unless the finish has been neglected for a long period of time or underwent some type of finish-abuse.



I'm in the camp of applying your favorite product often to maintain the maximum potential. I don't believe that applying multiple applications of a product will hurt anything, but I also don't believe the finish will get,



* Darker and darker with each application

* Shinier and shinier with each application

* Glossier and glossier with each application etc.



Once you’ve reached the maximum potential... it's time to step back and admire it, not apply another coat.



It's like the term, �hitting a wall�, :wall something a really good detailer can do on every car they detail, thus the reason they are a really good detailer, they always hit the wall.



Does any of that make sense?



Have to go....
 
Mike Phillips said:
Product starts shipping in February.



Stay tuned





Use after to enhance and maintain the results created by applications of Lab Sample E.



Typically, products applied to the car's finish are not really layerable. I know that for some people this sounds like a great idea, but in reality... it's just not happening.



2-3 applications of anyone's product to an automotive finish and you will have reached the maximum potential that product has the ability to create on a particular finish as it exists at that time.



So if by layering you mean 2-3 applications, then yes it’s layerable. If you mean, can you keep applying the product and with each application, begin to build a measurable film-build, or the finish will get better and better and better with each application, then no, it’s not layerable.



Now follow me on this one…



Once you have reached the maximum potential of a specific car’s finish, another application of the same product will not take the results to a higher level. It will maintain the level you have previously created, but the idea that a clear coat can be come clearer, and clearer, is... well... ridiculous.



For example, say you have a piece of glass that is perfectly clear and perfectly clean. If we give this piece of glass a rating such as, 100% Optically Clear, how can an application of a film coating increase the rating to say, 101%?



Isn't 100% the maximum potential of the piece of glass? (I mean, if 100% doesn’t mean 100%, then what does it mean?)



Paint is actually dramatically more susceptible to change in its rating because paint is more easily dulled. So while some products can take a car's finish to its maximum potential, (as we all know), some products can easily dull a finish and thus move the appearance quality, or rating of a car's finish downward, away from its maximum potential. Contrast to glass which is usually only dulled through abrasion.



Point being, if your using a product that looks good in your eyes, and if you apply 2-3 coats in any given polishing session. After you wipe of the 2nd, or 3rd application, a 4th is not going to add or increase any visual aspect of the results your previously achieved with the 2nd or 3rd application.



Now... as time goes by and the results are diminished, say through washing or inclement weather, then, yes, re-application of your favorite product should quickly and easily restore the finish to the level the previous applications achieved. That is unless the finish has been neglected for a long period of time or underwent some type of finish-abuse.



I'm in the camp of applying your favorite product often to maintain the maximum potential. I don't believe that applying multiple applications of a product will hurt anything, but I also don't believe the finish will get,



* Darker and darker with each application

* Shinier and shinier with each application

* Glossier and glossier with each application etc.



Once you’ve reached the maximum potential... it's time to step back and admire it, not apply another coat.



It's like the term, �hitting a wall�, :wall something a really good detailer can do on every car they detail, thus the reason they are a really good detailer, they always hit the wall.



Does any of that make sense?



Have to go....
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense!!!!! :bow

My exact argument about surface (finish) enhancement created by a non-abrasive (solvent or particulate) protectant. Prep achieves the maximum resolution (optics) of the paint. Flaws may enhance the flaws but rarely sufficently improve the optics beyond the established max set by the Prep.

Protectants only protect it.

I have also wondered about my favorite protectant for my black Z28. When I first used this product (Zaino) I got caught up in the popular belief that layering to the infinitum was the answer or route towards perfect. WRONG. After discussing with Sal he, like many here at Autopia, stressed PREP. I wandered down this path and found the holy grail. Now 3-4 coats after an anal driven prep does the job!!!!



Point: You can lead a horse to water, but you can make it drink! :o



Problem: now I have nothing to do this winter on the hiberated cars.

"Bells go off" Maybe LS will come out early to give a poor detailing hobbist something to do the time. ;)
 
Mike Phillips said:
Finished washing, I must say, this gives a Meguiar's guy the eebeejeebies
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Scared me too, Mike! I've yet to comprehend the fascination of the Dawn Wash. Besides, a quick polishing with #82 leaves the paint squeaky clean!
 
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