"Loose Change" - 9/11 Conspiracy by Dylan Avery

[Sherman8r44]

To all of you who have put faith in this video, I ask you one thing.



If our government could plan, execute and cover up 9/11, why have they been unable to plant WMDs in Iraq to show the world we were right?

I've been saying been saying for months that Bush should have done that! :LOLOL



Machiavellian politics may be immoral but they work...

 

[Spilchy]

And a lot of good that did. We quickly forgot about Afghanistan, and where is it now? Taliban and poppy fields abound. Let's go attack a country that wasn't directly responsible for anything in this country. It was a diversion, and made us all feel like we were really getting the bad guys. Sure we might have rid ourselves of their training grounds, but then what. So many of those guys were Saudis we should have bombed them, but NO we get too much oil from there and the Bush family is in bed with those folks (Carlyle Group). And don't bother trying to tell me that's not true either. People are so busy feeling like this lame crap the government is doing is gonna keep us safe. For every one detainee we have in Gitmo there are a thousand more over in the Middle East that are more willing and rabid. Threat color levels are meaningless, and there are WAY, WAY too many things that can be exploited in this country if someone wanted to.

Afghanistan is a billion times more well-off than it was 5 years ago under the Taliban. They hardly have the power they once had; now relegated to small portions of the country. They harbored and gave shelter those responsible for 911. Even Jimmy Carter supported military action there. But, if you want Osama running freely there, Al Qadea camps running freely there, the continuance of the extreme humanitarian crisis of famine, mass disease-ridden refugee camps on the Pakistani border, the total subjugation of women (and the list goes on and on and on) then I can understand why you don't support our actions there and the 10,000 NATO forces.



EVERY president has been in bed with the Saudis since Roosevelt. Their Ambassador is the only one with a Secret Service security detail in the United States. Too bad we didn't take over Saudi Arabia after WW2 as was intially discussed for their rich oil fields. Oil is what makes the world go around. It what makes our economy run. Everything boils down to oil. It's what makes you able to afford and run your GMC Sierra which loves that Iraqi oil. Why do you think the entire world attacked Sadaam in 1990 in the first Gulf War with United Nations approval and mandate? He couldn't have control of 70% of the worlds oil! If it wasn't for the Israelis blowing up his nuclear plant in the early 1980's, then he would be sitting in Kuwait with nuclear weapons too. It's in our interest to be in bed with the Saudis to maintain a cheaper oil supply. Beneath their society lies large terrorist sympayhizing population that would be in charge if not for the royal family. You rather have the Communist Chinese, North Koreans or Russia (and their economies and military) in bed with the royal family for a cheap oil supply? I sure don't. I understand the larger geo economic / political stratgey and necessity of keeping the Saudi royal family in power and setting up a friendly Iraqi government. We are now flanking Iran with troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (rich in natural gas too) where we are setting up sophisticated intelligence gathering and military posts which will help in our larger strategy against Iran and maintain a strong foothold in the region. Getting rid of Sadaam and moving towards a more free society there is a positive by product of the depper reasons of why we are truly there. You look at the Iraq war and our policies as a bad thing because they benefit oil companies. I see it is a good thing benefitting the U.S. and the world in the decades to come. We turned around Japan and Germany after WW2. 50 years from now we'll have transformed Iraq and the broader Middle East for the better. 50 years is a blip on the radar.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Spilchy, thanks for bringing up the national security connection to oil. Without cheap oil (and natural gas), our entire way of life changes.

 

[Sherman8r44]

Afghanistan is a billion times more well-off than it was 5 years ago under the Taliban. They hardly have the power they once had; now relegated to small portions of the country. They harbored and gave shelter those responsible for 911. Even Jimmy Carter supported military action there. But, if you want Osama running freely there, Al Qadea camps running freely there, the continuance of the extreme humanitarian crisis of famine, mass disease-ridden refugee camps on the Pakistani border, the total subjugation of women (and the list goes on and on and on) then I can understand why you don't support our actions there and the 10,000 NATO forces.



EVERY president has been in bed with the Saudis since Roosevelt. Their Ambassador is the only one with a Secret Service security detail in the United States. Too bad we didn't take over Saudi Arabia after WW2 as was intially discussed for their rich oil fields. Oil is what makes the world go around. It what makes our economy run. Everything boils down to oil. It's what makes you able to afford and run your GMC Sierra which loves that Iraqi oil. Why do you think the entire world attacked Sadaam in 1990 in the first Gulf War with United Nations approval and mandate? He couldn't have control of 70% of the worlds oil! If it wasn't for the Israelis blowing up his nuclear plant in the early 1980's, then he would be sitting in Kuwait with nuclear weapons too. It's in our interest to be in bed with the Saudis to maintain a cheaper oil supply. Beneath their society lies large terrorist sympayhizing population that would be in charge if not for the royal family. You rather have the Communist Chinese, North Koreans or Russia (and their economies and military) in bed with the royal family for a cheap oil supply? I sure don't. I understand the larger geo economic / political stratgey and necessity of keeping the Saudi royal family in power and setting up a friendly Iraqi government. We are now flanking Iran with troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (rich in natural gas too) where we are setting up sophisticated intelligence gathering and military posts which will help in our larger strategy against Iran and maintain a strong foothold in the region. Getting rid of Sadaam and moving towards a more free society there is a positive by product of the depper reasons of why we are truly there. You look at the Iraq war and our policies as a bad thing because they benefit oil companies. I see it is a good thing benefitting the U.S. and the world in the decades to come. We turned around Japan and Germany after WW2. 50 years from now we'll have transformed Iraq and the broader Middle East for the better. 50 years is a blip on the radar.

Genious :clap:

 

[ntoddalbert]

Some planes were allowed to fly after 911, a good buddy of mine is a pilot for a Canadian paper company that has a large fleet of corporate Jets. The company had sent two jets to Disney with Cancer patients/Sick kids that week, they do it all the time as a write off.



When 911 happened, Disney closed. The kids were a mess according to my buddy. Calls were made home to Canada and the Secret Service came and checked out the plane and passengers and let them go, this might have been two days after 911.



Michael Moore was wrong on so many points I know lots of other aircraft that flew that week, me included. It was all done on a case by case basis.Of course we are lighter jets, maybe 60,000 pounds of which 30,000 is fuel so we posed a much lower risk I guess. I did see other aircraft up there though and we talked on the radio. Spooky how you could ask for and get just about and route you wanted, they were all open.



Speaking of conspiracies I have uncovered one of my own, That Fudgey the whale cake Carvel makes uses the same mold that the Santa cake mold uses. Coincidence I think not



I bet the same group of people are involved.



Passports surviving burning wrecks?, how about when people survive burning wrecks, no one ever comes back and says that's impossible?



"While im not paranoid, someone broke into my house and stole everything I own and replaced it with an exact duplicate" This should be my new sig.......

 

[stilez]

Speaking of conspiracies I have uncovered one of my own, That Fudgey the whale cake Carvel makes uses the same mold that the Santa cake mold uses. Coincidence I think not

:lol



You weren't kidding.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Outstanding! A Stephen Wright quote! I hope Arlen Specter has that Fudgy/Santa thing on his list after the FISA stuff, too. LOL!

 

[Tasty]

Spilchy - You are very informed and quite succinct in your posts. I guess we agree to disagree on matters of politics, but thanks for enlightened discussion. Between this thread and the one I started on Pres. Bush I have been thinking about this stuff a lot the last couple of days and that's a good thing! Too bad more people don't spend time to contemplate these matters until 2 seconds before they walk in the polling booth.

 

[pontman43]

:sign That all there is left to say. lol

 

[Spilchy]

Thanks Tasty :dance - Likewise. I appreciate your input as well, and understand why we can get so heated. Your opinion is just as valid as mine and everyone elses's (except conspirators :rofl ) and I enjoy discussing these things.



Just a heads up to folks - I'm not a flag waver or a war monger or a blind follower of Bush's foreign policy. I'm a registered Deomocrat In fact, I'm rather liberal in many other areas.



I've always been interested in the nitty gritty of our shadow world of our foreign policy (and Europe's) and read many, many things from respected policy and military think tanks as well as liberal and conservative sources that help shape my opinions. It's one of my hobbies. I've been following the Taliban and how they rose to power with the aid of the Pakastani intelligence service way back in 1996 after reading about them in National Geographic (I believe). If the U.S. (the CIA) didn't abandon Afghanistan after the Soviets left, who knows, maybe none of this stuff (911 specifically) would have occured. (Or, if Clinton took real action there the 4 times we were hit by Al Qaeda in the 90's, not to mention taking Sudan up on their offer to hand over Bin laden while he was there).



Contrary to popular belief, the United States (CIA) along with Pakistan did not work with Bin Laden and foreign jihadists that came via the Arab countries during the Soviet occupation. They hated us then too. Rather we worked with local Afghan mujahadeen supplying them with tons of training, small arms, 120mm mortars, wire guided anti-tank missles and most importantly the Stinger Missle which broke the back of the Soviets allowing the mass flow of weapons and manpower to flow in from Pakistan (like the Ho Chi Min Trail). We made it like a bloody, demoralizing Vietnam for the Soviets (like they did to us).



This whole thing is real nasty and convoluted and I privately question our motives there (Iraq, not Afghanistan) and all the things that went wrong. Things are going to get far worse before they get better. Every new "Democracy" goes through a form of civil war and we're going to watch one unfold on TV in Iraq with our boys stuck in the middle. But, in my opinion, as tough as it will be, in the long run, IMHO, it is in our nation's economic, strategic and philosophical best interests. We have to remain the superpower. It may take YEARS, but in the span of history, that's nothing. It's just that we're living through it. We've stood down some terrible enemies and ideologies in the past taking most of Europe (not Britain!) kicking and screaming along the way, and we'll defeat this unconventional ideology of Islamic Facism. In my opinion, and this is why I get so angry, our worst enemy is not the terrorists, but ourselves.

 

[Lowejackson]

... In my opinion, and this is why I get so angry, our worst enemy is not the terrorists, but ourselves.

I beleive this to be true in many situations.

....We've stood down some terrible enemies and ideologies in the past taking most of Europe kicking and screaming along the way.. .

Not so sure about this bit

 

[Tasty]

No, I just see that there's no convincing him, and I'm not changing my mind either. We could go on ad nauseum, but why?

 

[Spilchy]

Not so sure about this bit

LOL, I edited it just before you posted! I'm talking about "Old Europe" (i.e. the country whose butt we kicked and the country whose butt we saved). And I mean this in more recent times, although the French always whined about our Cold War policies.

 

[Tasty]

Thanks Tasty :dance - Likewise. I appreciate your input as well, and understand why we can get so heated. Your opinion is just as valid as mine and everyone elses's (except conspirators :rofl ) and I enjoy discussing these things.



Just a heads up to folks - I'm not a flag waver or a war monger or a blind follower of Bush's foreign policy. I'm a registered Deomocrat In fact, I'm rather liberal in many other areas.



I've always been interested in the nitty gritty of our shadow world of our foreign policy (and Europe's) and read many, many things from respected policy and military think tanks as well as liberal and conservative sources that help shape my opinions. It's one of my hobbies. I've been following the Taliban and how they rose to power with the aid of the Pakastani intelligence service way back in 1996 after reading about them in National Geographic (I believe). If the U.S. (the CIA) didn't abandon Afghanistan after the Soviets left, who knows, maybe none of this stuff (911 specifically) would have occured. (Or, if Clinton took real action there the 4 times we were hit by Al Qaeda in the 90's, not to mention taking Sudan up on their offer to hand over Bin laden while he was there).



Contrary to popular belief, the United States (CIA) along with Pakistan did not work with Bin Laden and foreign jihadists that came via the Arab countries during the Soviet occupation. They hated us then too. Rather we worked with local Afghan mujahadeen supplying them with tons of training, small arms, 120mm mortars, wire guided anti-tank missles and most importantly the Stinger Missle which broke the back of the Soviets allowing the mass flow of weapons and manpower to flow in from Pakistan (like the Ho Chi Min Trail). We made it like a bloody, demoralizing Vietnam for the Soviets (like they did to us).



This whole thing is real nasty and convoluted and I privately question our motives there (Iraq, not Afghanistan) and all the things that went wrong. Things are going to get far worse before they get better. Every new "Democracy" goes through a form of civil war and we're going to watch one unfold on TV in Iraq with our boys stuck in the middle. But, in my opinion, as tough as it will be, in the long run, IMHO, it is in our nation's economic, strategic and philosophical best interests. We have to remain the superpower. It may take YEARS, but in the span of history, that's nothing. It's just that we're living through it. We've stood down some terrible enemies and ideologies in the past taking most of Europe (not Britain!) kicking and screaming along the way, and we'll defeat this unconventional ideology of Islamic Facism. In my opinion, and this is why I get so angry, our worst enemy is not the terrorists, but ourselves.

Now that post I was totally down with.

 

[zainoshine]

So.....how bout them Packers?

 

[Tasty]

LOL, Favre needs to ride the pine. Whether he's Favre or not. :Geezx

 

[Larrycolorglo]

This is for everyone to read regardaless of your political beliefs or how think you our mistakes may have put us in the circumstances we are all in. Just look at the facts and decide for yourself if this WAR IS FOR REAL. This is a summary of a piece written by one of our Generals.



1. When did the threat to the US begin? Many people think it was 9/11 but look at the FACTS;

1979 Iran Embassy Hostages

Beirut, Lebanon Embassy

Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks - 233 Marines Killed - 1983

Lockerbie, Scotrland Pan AM Flight - Bomb KIlled Everyone -1988

First New York World Trade Center Bombing - 1993

Dhahran, Suadi Arabia - Kohbar Towers Attack - 1996

Dares Salaam, Tanzania - U.S. Embassy Bombing - 1998

Nairobi, Kenya - U.S. Embassy Bombing -1998

Aden, Yemen, USS Cole Bombing -2000

New York World Trade Center - 2001

Pentagon - 2001



Note that during the peirod from 1981 - 2001 there 7,581 terriost attacks worlwide which includes cruise ship, airport, and Cia agents shot in there cars on the streets of D.C.



These attacks were carried out by Muslim Extremist and although they focus their hate on the US they will kill anyone who gets in thier way as shown by the Spanish and English murders.



Now ask yourself can we lose this war?

What does losing really mean?

Many people think losing means we hang our heads and bring the troops home and go about our business just as we did after Vietnam. This is no where near the truth. The truth is we would no longer be a trusted super power in the world, the attacks would not subside, but would increase not only because they want to kill as many of us as possible, but because they want to neuter us into being submissive to them. No other country would support our policies for fear of being attacked. Bottom line is if we do not stop these extremists then who will?



These murderers know what is riding on the outcome of this war and we better all know it as well. If we are united we cannot lose - if we are divided we will implode. The media truly has no grasp of what is at stake as they continue to point fingers and even talk of crimes the President has committed. The purpose of terroism is to disrupt our way of life with the constant threat of death hanging over Americans and if the media does not get that then they are oblivious to the magnitude of the situation.



IN closing can anyone name one Muslim country that allows freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of press, equal rights for all, let alone equal staus for women or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world other than oil.



We will not have our freedom taken away by a military force. Instead we could give away our freedoms away politically correct piece by politically correct piece.



Where Muslim Extremists have taken over countries they start killing each other over who will be the few in command.

Stay UNITED NO MATTER WHAT and there is no way they will win this war.

 

[wlhump]

LKDFW...........AMEN!

The stakes in this 'war' are different than in any previous war we fought. As you've shown, the terrorist have infinitely more patience than the general American public has or would believe. They know they can wait us out. The radical Muslims feel they have been fighting this 'war' since the Crusades, so what's another 10-20 years. They will not give up! And winning for them means elimination of all others.

Losing for us means losing everything, not a quiet existance in 'our corner' of the world.

 

[Larrycolorglo]

LKDFW...........AMEN!

The stakes in this 'war' are different than in any previous war we fought. As you've shown, the terrorist have infinitely more patience than the general American public has or would believe. They know they can wait us out. The radical Muslims feel they have been fighting this 'war' since the Crusades, so what's another 10-20 years. They will not give up! And winning for them means elimination of all others.

Losing for us means losing everything, not a quiet existance in 'our corner' of the world.

The only fact I would add is the 72' Olympics which was the first time the extremisits carried out a mission across continents. Unfortunatley the world was not realy watching because it did not happen to a large Western country. This event should have been recognized as a crime against humanity, but it was seen as ony a few Israelis dying.

Speilbergs new film Munich (DEC. 23) will bring back this event so a whole new generation can have a more informed point of view about terrorism as it relates to innocent people beingmurdered and it will remind us older citizens that we missed an oportunity draw the line in the sand back in 1972 and say your either with us or against us.