imported_GregCavi
New member
ok i watched this yesterday evening, I thought some of the stuff was just not possible as it is propoganda, but the pentegon thing is very odd, I dont understnad that at all.
Greg
Greg
"Loose Change" - 9/11 Conspiracy by Dylan Avery
- Thread starter stilez
- Start date
Spilchy
New member
Mosca said:
That whole whacky "man on the moon thing?" Fake, never happended. Sorry space geeks, it was cooked up in a Hollywood studio. Saw it on the Internet.
UFO's at Area 51 in the Nevada Desert? Completely true. Saw in the movies - Independence Day. You can't tell me they made that up.
Did Mark David Chapman really shoot John Lennon? It was the FBI! Crazy you say?! I read it on the Internet! http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/lennon_report.htm
As far as no plane at the Pentagon, a quick search on CNN pulled up eye witnesses that saw the tail of it sticking out of the building as well as a the plane actually flying low and fast crashing into it. I guess all the people on that plane went missing via the Bermuda Triangle.
Ok, there were no bombs going off floor by floor.
The gov. found a passport of a terrorist who was on one of the planes,. in the street lol. ?
There was a report of the melting point of the metal that composed the 2 buildings ?
Jet fuel really burns at a temp hotter than the sun, thats how main support members were melted many many levels below the impact area.
An earthquake dude picked up a reading, and he lied about what it meant, because he wanted to be famous on the internet.
Bush sat in a classroom for-7, or 9 minutes reading books to kids while terrorists were attacking the country.
Remember the look on his face when he got the news.
Rumsfield was warned not to fly on a commercial plane weeks before 911.
The FBI and CIA both had reports and warnings about a terrorist attack using our planes, flying them into buildings. The most common debunk here is that Clinton diminished the capacity of the CIA and FBI in his administration, so its his fault.
The president of Russia personally called to warn us about it.
This is simple stuff, that is common knowledge, people will say something witty like, why do you hate Bush, as a comeback.
All we can do is keep a watchful eye, and keep asking questions.
The gov. found a passport of a terrorist who was on one of the planes,. in the street lol. ?
There was a report of the melting point of the metal that composed the 2 buildings ?
Jet fuel really burns at a temp hotter than the sun, thats how main support members were melted many many levels below the impact area.
An earthquake dude picked up a reading, and he lied about what it meant, because he wanted to be famous on the internet.
Bush sat in a classroom for-7, or 9 minutes reading books to kids while terrorists were attacking the country.
Remember the look on his face when he got the news.
Rumsfield was warned not to fly on a commercial plane weeks before 911.
The FBI and CIA both had reports and warnings about a terrorist attack using our planes, flying them into buildings. The most common debunk here is that Clinton diminished the capacity of the CIA and FBI in his administration, so its his fault.
The president of Russia personally called to warn us about it.
This is simple stuff, that is common knowledge, people will say something witty like, why do you hate Bush, as a comeback.
All we can do is keep a watchful eye, and keep asking questions.
ntoddalbert
New member
Having spent 5 years as an aviation accident investigator and still being employed in aviation, training flight crews on emergency/abnormal procedures I can say the pentagon wreckage looks exactly like one would expect it to look like given the speed and angle of impact.
You cant compare what you normally see in accidental crashes where the aircraft is level and at low speed when it crashes 2 miles out from the airport. This crash was intentional, the impact shows a high speed impact where the aircraft impacted at an angle most aircraft never fly at, at least not airliners anyway.
The only people who dont know this are the tin foil hat guys that see conspiracies in everything they look at.
The old quote " When your a carpenter, all the world looks like a nail " comes to mind.
I once did a crash investigation for a Guy named Herschel Friday, he was Bill Clinton's personal attorney in Little Rock. Without my written report in front of me im shooting from a clouded memory but the guy was 84 years old, had 90% blockage of his Aorta and was flying alone, at night, in bad weather with very little experience in the high performance aircraft he had just purchased. Of course the conspiracy nuts claimed he was offed as he was about to "Out" Clinton. You can find tons of web links saying he was killed when his crash was obviously not caused by anything other than "Normal Causes"
Makes you wonder, just what do these people think is real/fake?
You cant compare what you normally see in accidental crashes where the aircraft is level and at low speed when it crashes 2 miles out from the airport. This crash was intentional, the impact shows a high speed impact where the aircraft impacted at an angle most aircraft never fly at, at least not airliners anyway.
The only people who dont know this are the tin foil hat guys that see conspiracies in everything they look at.
The old quote " When your a carpenter, all the world looks like a nail " comes to mind.
I once did a crash investigation for a Guy named Herschel Friday, he was Bill Clinton's personal attorney in Little Rock. Without my written report in front of me im shooting from a clouded memory but the guy was 84 years old, had 90% blockage of his Aorta and was flying alone, at night, in bad weather with very little experience in the high performance aircraft he had just purchased. Of course the conspiracy nuts claimed he was offed as he was about to "Out" Clinton. You can find tons of web links saying he was killed when his crash was obviously not caused by anything other than "Normal Causes"
Makes you wonder, just what do these people think is real/fake?
SpoiledMan
New member
GSRstilez said:
...and please, anybody, explain to me what happened to the wings and engines of this so called airplane.
I'm with you Sean. Something about the "plane" that crashed into the Pentagon S T I N K S !
ntoddalbert
New member
I haven't a clue why they never released the tapes, back in 1994 when I stopped doing that work the Govt even stopped releasing Cockpit Voice Recordings. Its not unusual for the government to say we don't want to release footage of murders to the general public. I wouldn't want to watch my Mom/Dad/Son/Daughter's death.
As far as the passport, yea its believable.
Once I had a case, minor by comparison but to use as an example. A US Navy Super Sea Stallion ( Huge Helo and I mean huge) was doing autorotation tests over the Chesapeake bay near Norfolk VA. This means they remove engine power and allow the rotor blades to be used like a windmill to to support the helo as would occur in an engine/gearbox failure, even though this is a multi engine helo. Of course they didn't tell anyone they were going to be dropping from 4 thousand feet to 1400 where they would restore power and do it again for practice.
At this same time a Fish spotter flying for a company that uses small planes to spot schools of fish used in commercial canning, menhaden If I recall the name of the fish was doing his thing. His flight was to circle the bay and spot the schools, then a refrigerated ship would grab the fish and can them right there on board, quite a huge operation. Mostly this fish was used for cat food I was told.
As the helo dropped straight down this poor guy never saw them coming, he hit the helo which had its side doors open, mind you these doors are big enough to drive a car thriugh.When he exited of course he now had no wings and was on fire. He hit the water and was killed. He was found the next day when we spotted an oil slick coming from his engine.
Due to the nature of Navy crashes we weren't given access that day, the Helo made a precautionary landing on a beach just at the end of the Chesapeake bay bridge with no injuries and remarkably minor damage.
It was hot, they had Navy grunts guarding the helo . Considering this guys plane was a burning missile they were lucky. I mentioned it was hot for a reason, we bribed the navy guys with some cold brews to let us take our pics that night. The navy would have let us the next day anyway and they knew that.
I still get chills when I think about what I saw inside, for one thing his left shoe, and foot. His pilots logbook, intact, and a photo of his daughter with her boyfriend. How the physics of this all worked out I have no idea but it is entirely plausible to find a passport undamaged at a crash site. I could tell you a thousand things that shocked me, this one just popped into my mind today.
I could tell you funny stories of things found, or people who were not supposed to be traveling together....... that happens a lot. We also had to collect passenger baggage and identify it and turn it over to families, that led to some interesting finds too......
As far as the passport, yea its believable.
Once I had a case, minor by comparison but to use as an example. A US Navy Super Sea Stallion ( Huge Helo and I mean huge) was doing autorotation tests over the Chesapeake bay near Norfolk VA. This means they remove engine power and allow the rotor blades to be used like a windmill to to support the helo as would occur in an engine/gearbox failure, even though this is a multi engine helo. Of course they didn't tell anyone they were going to be dropping from 4 thousand feet to 1400 where they would restore power and do it again for practice.
At this same time a Fish spotter flying for a company that uses small planes to spot schools of fish used in commercial canning, menhaden If I recall the name of the fish was doing his thing. His flight was to circle the bay and spot the schools, then a refrigerated ship would grab the fish and can them right there on board, quite a huge operation. Mostly this fish was used for cat food I was told.
As the helo dropped straight down this poor guy never saw them coming, he hit the helo which had its side doors open, mind you these doors are big enough to drive a car thriugh.When he exited of course he now had no wings and was on fire. He hit the water and was killed. He was found the next day when we spotted an oil slick coming from his engine.
Due to the nature of Navy crashes we weren't given access that day, the Helo made a precautionary landing on a beach just at the end of the Chesapeake bay bridge with no injuries and remarkably minor damage.
It was hot, they had Navy grunts guarding the helo . Considering this guys plane was a burning missile they were lucky. I mentioned it was hot for a reason, we bribed the navy guys with some cold brews to let us take our pics that night. The navy would have let us the next day anyway and they knew that.
I still get chills when I think about what I saw inside, for one thing his left shoe, and foot. His pilots logbook, intact, and a photo of his daughter with her boyfriend. How the physics of this all worked out I have no idea but it is entirely plausible to find a passport undamaged at a crash site. I could tell you a thousand things that shocked me, this one just popped into my mind today.
I could tell you funny stories of things found, or people who were not supposed to be traveling together....... that happens a lot. We also had to collect passenger baggage and identify it and turn it over to families, that led to some interesting finds too......
ntoddalbert
New member
The wings and engines are exactly where you would expect them to be, do you really think they want you to see the interior of the Pentagon? They didn't before 911 they sure as hell don't want you to now.
That's why you dont see the pics you are expecting, like you would in a typical airliner crash. This wasn't a typical crash. When a missile hits its target you rarely get to see the missile afterwards.
That's why you dont see the pics you are expecting, like you would in a typical airliner crash. This wasn't a typical crash. When a missile hits its target you rarely get to see the missile afterwards.
FalconGuy:
I appreciate your comments and they are sure helping me make sense of everything. Just to confirm though. Your story is very believeable and myself, too, have heard stories similar (many of my relatives were in the services). However, your story related to a 2 plane collision whereas 9/11 was a plane directly colliding with a building which subsequently burned (9/11 commission blamed the fires on the structural failure) and fell to the ground. Most of everything was vaporized, even humans. Do you think its still believeable about the passport (this is not a bash or a second guess of you in anyway, I just wanted a little more clarification)?
May I ask you to take a look at this documentary "911, In Plane Site" and let me know what you think.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7137996953057764203&q=in+plane+site
It has to do MUCH MORE with the planes themselves. It really disects the videos and recordings taken. It seems much more professional and believable than the original link I posted.
As stated in this link I just posted, the author states "This is not about republicans vs. democrats. We are not 'Bush Bashers'. This is about what is right and what is wrong". I think that about sums it up for me. He goes on to mention how Clinton (democrat) bombed a chemical plant (forget where, but vid mentions it) that turned out to just be an Asprin plant.
Again, I appreciate your advice.
I appreciate your comments and they are sure helping me make sense of everything. Just to confirm though. Your story is very believeable and myself, too, have heard stories similar (many of my relatives were in the services). However, your story related to a 2 plane collision whereas 9/11 was a plane directly colliding with a building which subsequently burned (9/11 commission blamed the fires on the structural failure) and fell to the ground. Most of everything was vaporized, even humans. Do you think its still believeable about the passport (this is not a bash or a second guess of you in anyway, I just wanted a little more clarification)?
May I ask you to take a look at this documentary "911, In Plane Site" and let me know what you think.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7137996953057764203&q=in+plane+site
It has to do MUCH MORE with the planes themselves. It really disects the videos and recordings taken. It seems much more professional and believable than the original link I posted.
As stated in this link I just posted, the author states "This is not about republicans vs. democrats. We are not 'Bush Bashers'. This is about what is right and what is wrong". I think that about sums it up for me. He goes on to mention how Clinton (democrat) bombed a chemical plant (forget where, but vid mentions it) that turned out to just be an Asprin plant.
Again, I appreciate your advice.
Spilchy
New member
Just a little tid bit:
Clinton ordered the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant via cruise missle (owned by a Saudi) because it the CIA believed it contained the deadly nerve agent VX and symapthized with Al Qaeda. It was retaliation for the bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Sudan harbored Bin Laden as a guest (like Afghanistan) for a few years and as an extremist Isalmic government, had sympathetic leanings towards Al-Qaeda. This was a strategic blow to their ability to potentially gain this agent. During the same bombing raid, a few Al Qaeda trainig camps in Afghanistan were also bombed via cruise missles.
It was not just an "aspirin plant." That's a joke! Don't forget, our embassies overseas were blown up and killed many (not to mention the 3 other times Al Qeda struck us during the Clinton years). We were retaliating against those who attacked the embassies and at the time, continued to plot to attack us. Too bad we didn't do more militarily over the Clinton years leading up to 9/11 to crush these people and their terrorist Candy Land in Afghanistan.
I don't mean to say that those who think our government blew up our twin towers, part of the pentagon and potentially the white house (if not for the downed plane in PA) are Bush bashers. It's just that I listen to people continually complain about him pulling at straws to try to legitimize their dislike.
Clinton ordered the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant via cruise missle (owned by a Saudi) because it the CIA believed it contained the deadly nerve agent VX and symapthized with Al Qaeda. It was retaliation for the bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Sudan harbored Bin Laden as a guest (like Afghanistan) for a few years and as an extremist Isalmic government, had sympathetic leanings towards Al-Qaeda. This was a strategic blow to their ability to potentially gain this agent. During the same bombing raid, a few Al Qaeda trainig camps in Afghanistan were also bombed via cruise missles.
It was not just an "aspirin plant." That's a joke! Don't forget, our embassies overseas were blown up and killed many (not to mention the 3 other times Al Qeda struck us during the Clinton years). We were retaliating against those who attacked the embassies and at the time, continued to plot to attack us. Too bad we didn't do more militarily over the Clinton years leading up to 9/11 to crush these people and their terrorist Candy Land in Afghanistan.
I don't mean to say that those who think our government blew up our twin towers, part of the pentagon and potentially the white house (if not for the downed plane in PA) are Bush bashers. It's just that I listen to people continually complain about him pulling at straws to try to legitimize their dislike.
pontman43
New member
OK, so what was the reasoning for the government planning this?
And what happened to the people and the planes?
And what happened to the people and the planes?
White95Max
New member
Pontman43 said:
Well many of the hijackers seem alive and well in Saudi Arabia!
pontman43
New member
White95Max said:
LOL, ya, where is the proof?
And what about the passengers on the plane?
White95Max
New member
Pontman43 said:
IDK maybe they went to Saudi Arabia too! lol
I don't believe everything that this documentary was trying to say, but as I said before, some of the points make you think.
pontman43
New member
And... how stupid do you think our government is?
Why would they blame certain terrorists and leave them alive?
Why would they attact the Trade Center?
Why would they put a missle on the outside of a plane so everyone can see?
If our government was this stupid then we should be worrying about more than this.
Also how was the other plane that was taken over by passengers that was crashed into nothing in Penn. explained?
Why would they blame certain terrorists and leave them alive?
Why would they attact the Trade Center?
Why would they put a missle on the outside of a plane so everyone can see?
If our government was this stupid then we should be worrying about more than this.
Also how was the other plane that was taken over by passengers that was crashed into nothing in Penn. explained?
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
I don't want to get too deep into this, but when the planes hit the towers, you can see debris being expelled from the far side of the building (IIRC, one of the engines of one of the planes went thru a WTC tower and landed on a building on the other side). How difficult is it to imagine that some of the expelled material could be from the plane, even a passport, which would float down to the street?
And for a bunch of guys who will rip the flesh off of someone who walks onto this forum and says they have a super duper better than anything wax, some of you seem to be swallowing a similarly unsupported set of "facts" hook, line and sinker. Spilchy threw up some other examples.
That's not to say that I think this "war on terror" has been prosecuted in a productive way, or really think we are any safer than we were on 9/10/01, but I don't think we started the war (by perpetrating the attacks...perhaps in other ways) either.
And for a bunch of guys who will rip the flesh off of someone who walks onto this forum and says they have a super duper better than anything wax, some of you seem to be swallowing a similarly unsupported set of "facts" hook, line and sinker. Spilchy threw up some other examples.
That's not to say that I think this "war on terror" has been prosecuted in a productive way, or really think we are any safer than we were on 9/10/01, but I don't think we started the war (by perpetrating the attacks...perhaps in other ways) either.
pontman43
New member
OK, so I just watched the whole thing and :lol.
It never said why the government would do this. Why would you kill thousands of your own people for no reason, nothing to gain, nothing at all?
Max, your right, this vid does make you think, think about how people could belive this stuff, if you go through the whole movie and try to counter every one of their points, you can come up with a reason within seconds, imagine if you actually did research.
It never said why the government would do this. Why would you kill thousands of your own people for no reason, nothing to gain, nothing at all?
Max, your right, this vid does make you think, think about how people could belive this stuff, if you go through the whole movie and try to counter every one of their points, you can come up with a reason within seconds, imagine if you actually did research.
SpoiledMan
New member
Setec Astronomy said:
What if you think about the government being the bringer of the end all be all wax?
The motive is something we probably cannot relate to.
Gov., countries, and people act on behalf of their own percieved self intrest.
It is clear that the gov. and The People have two seperate agendas.
The burden of proof is on the accuser, and these two video clips show some very serious flaws, that are not answered.
I aks a bunch of "why's" also, its pretty stupid to think that the people we have put our trust, faith, and protection behind would do something like this, or ALLOW it.
Lets say you guys had the rarest and most expensive car on the earth. You let your brother take it on the weekends. On Monday, do you look it over real close, or do you just assume he treated it well, filled up the gas tank, and returned it exactly the way it was to be returned?
Why shouldnt the American people put the gov under a microscope for everything they do?
Why shouldnt we look at their motives, and make sure their interests directly reflect the interests of the Amercian People?
It would be great if this was found to be a bunch of b.s. , but is anyone steppig up to prove any of this wrong?
This is just one possible betrayal of the gov against the American People.
Lets look at a few simple examples of how the gov. is not looking out for US.
In the last few years TV commercials for prescriprions drugs are relentless.
Credit Card companies have been "turned loose" on the American People.
Jobs over seas.
Health Care is being slowly removed from our life style.
People are being forced to work longer and longer in life, well past a reasonable age.
There is little certainty for people approaching retirement.
Eminant Domain is becoming pretty popular
Big Business has been "let loose" on the American public.
Small businesses are being squashed
Maybe i am paranoid, i dont trust very many people ill admit, but someting is going on, i see it, and i am just a construction worker, someone wgo REALLY pays attention to this stuff, could be alot more specific than me i am sure.