Latest Rental-A Pontiac G6

Aurora40 said:
GM actually does have hybrids...
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Hey, don't start on me! I'm a GM guy, I even considered going to GMI (actually visited there). Plenty of companies have serious alternate fuel vehicle programs for non-consumer use. And I'm not forgetting that GM was the pioneer in mass-market electric cars with the EV-1. I'm talking about their current clumsy excuses for not having a consumer hybrid on the market. And you can make all the noise you want about small cars being the wrong application for hybrid technology, but any use of regenerative braking is good--better some than none, which is GM's score.



PS I'm old enough to remember the Arab oil embargo when everyone was talking about having a flywheel in their car to capture braking energy :p
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Hey, don't start on me! I'm a GM guy, I even considered going to GMI (actually visited there). Plenty of companies have serious alternate fuel vehicle programs for non-consumer use. And I'm not forgetting that GM was the pioneer in mass-market electric cars with the EV-1. I'm talking about their current clumsy excuses for not having a consumer hybrid on the market. And you can make all the noise you want about small cars being the wrong application for hybrid technology, but any use of regenerative braking is good--better some than none, which is GM's score.



PS I'm old enough to remember the Arab oil embargo when everyone was talking about having a flywheel in their car to capture braking energy :p
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LOL, wasn't trying to start in on you!
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Just for regenerative braking, GM does have that on some full-size pickups. It's a very simple system which as you said is better than none. Not to read the press, it's not though. Apparently a 10-15% fuel economy gain on pickups with some very easy changes shows GM's lack of ability, not their ability to do a lot with a little.



Hybrids have a certain cost and complexity, and have a certain gain. They aren't a magic bullet. In GM's larger cars, I suspect DOD and direct injection could have similar gains in economy in normal driving. Not everyone drives in a city, which is where hybrids are effective. I'd also like to see GM make their "high-value" (i.e. pushrod) V6's out of aluminum. I think then they'd really realize the weight advantage pushrods can have, both improving their fuel economy as well as a cars performance.
 
I didn't realize that they were doing some regenerative braking on pickups :o . Of course you are quite correct about regen braking only being significant in city driving, but here in Jersey even the highways are stop and go...



EDIT: Hey wait a minute! How can you do regenerative braking without a "hybrid"system? Where is the energy stored? How do you get it back out?
 
I think that claiming a company makes cars no one would buy, simply because you didn't like one, is a bit absurd and inflammatory.
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Let's be fair. I've got lots of experience with GM vehicles and by and large they do suffer from a quality gap with the Asians. This is a real reason why GM is losing so much market share. And why so many dealerships are dropping their brands.



With respect to pricing, there is a fine line between offering a value and being perceived by the consumer as having lower quality product. Selling tons of volume into rental fleets does not help either.



I'm not kicking GM since its a "large American company". I'm kicking them because they are making some horrible product.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I didn't realize that they were doing some regenerative braking on pickups :o . Of course you are quite correct about regen braking only being significant in city driving, but here in Jersey even the highways are stop and go...



EDIT: Hey wait a minute! How can you do regenerative braking without a "hybrid"system? Where is the energy stored? How do you get it back out?
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Here's a quick blurb from the Silverado press release:



Silverado Hybrid models available nationwide:

Previously available in select markets, Silverado 1500 Hybrid is available nationally in the 2006 model year. Silverado 1500 Hybrid promises up to 10 percent fuel economy improvement through its ability to automatically stop and restart the engine under different operating circumstances. Instead of a conventional starter motor and alternator, Hybrid pickups use a compact 14-kw electric induction motor or starter generator integrated in a patented, space-efficient manner between the engine and transmission. The starter generator provides fast, quiet starting power and allows automatic engine stops/starts to conserve fuel. It also smoothes out any driveline surges; generates electrical current to charge the batteries and run auxiliary power outlets; and provides coast-down regenerative braking, as an aid to fuel economy.
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Every car has a battery... ;)
 
Anyone who owns an import LOVES to rip at GM. I think the G6 is a great car, and I'm considering it as my next daily in a few years when I can afford a used one. They are a light-year ahead of the Grand Am as far as quality and fit-and-finish goes. The base model 2.4 isn't the fastest but you get great fuel econemy out of that 4cyl engine in that [big] car. FWIW, the car has more room head/shoulder/leg? room than new Grand Prixs. I do agree the seats are a bit narrow feeling, but that is subjective to the driver. The optional 3.5L V6 moves nicely and the 3.9L in the GTP model according to Car and Driver "60 mph of 6.2 seconds and a quarter-mile of 14.9 seconds at 95 mph".



Anyways no point on arguing with people who will put down GM and rave about Toyota or whatever import car just because domestics were crap in the past and are now getting better...
 
jaytheman2222 said:
Why do some of you guys have such an obsession with GM and other american cars. IMO everyone should buy German!
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If I were to buy German it wouldn't be a VW. How's that for inflammatory!?



Also, I'm criticizing GM along with others and I've never driven anything BUT GM cars until I recently bought a used Protege. The best car I've ever owned was my GMC Sierra 1500. 120,000 trouble free miles (only routine stuff, nothing major). The guy I sold it to will get many more miles out of it I'm sure.



GM, and other companies, are headed the wrong direction marketing giant SUVs, trucks, and cars with massive horsepower (Dodge) instead of using fuel economy gains where they SHOULD be used...BETTER MILEAGE. I read an article the other day that said that fuel economy has increased something like 20% over that last decade, but it's all been used in the wrong way. One thing this country has to collectively do, and this means all of us, is stop thinking that gas will be around forever and that cars with gigantic V8s are good ideas. I know some will say that I'm wrong on that, but it's an idiotic opinion that it's a good idea to keep going the direction we're going with the size and fuel economy of current vehicles.
 
^^ valid points about fuel econemy, and I agree to an extent. I mean why do we need a V8 in a FWD car (Grand Prix GXP, Impala SS, MC SS)?? It's just silly. If you want (you DON'T NEED) that much power, get a RWD sports car like a Mustang or a GTO. However, getting big power out of small engines I'm all for that. 260hp out of the '07 Solstice GXP (turbo 2.0L) will be the most powerful GM engine in history (per cubic inch). We've been getting ~400hp SUV monsters like the Yukon Denali and the Caddy Escalade.. 6.2L that's just crazy. Save that for the diesel trucks that need it for towing or whatever.
 
Corey Bit Spank said:
You know what's sad...



when the swedes have their way with the car it turns out this nicely:



saab_9-3_2002_05.jpg
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GM is ruining that company too. I have a friend who LOVES Saabs (he lost his in a flood just last week), and he hates where GM is taking that company. Look at the 9-7x. Rebadging a Trailblazer does not make a Saab, and why the hell does Saab need an SUV anyhow. Especially one that looks so bad.



EDIT: I'm aware that sales are up and such with GM, but I think if you ask any real Saab fan they will lament the new direction. All I ever see on our local Saab dealer lot is tumbleweeds.
 
Tasty said:
GM is ruining that company too.
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I'm trying to tell you guys...that's what happens when the CEO comes from the accounting dept. (no offense to you accountants). Saab is just a brand name to GM, a nameplate they bought to put corporate product under. They could care less about Saab history, the unique vehicles they produced for decades, what made a Saab a Saab, etc.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I'm trying to tell you guys...that's what happens when the CEO comes from the accounting dept. (no offense to you accountants). Saab is just a brand name to GM, a nameplate they bought to put corporate product under. They could care less about Saab history, the unique vehicles they produced for decades, what made a Saab a Saab, etc.
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Agreed Setec.
 
I have often remarked on the simply boring (often ugly) appearance of many American designed vehicles. From ugly hubcaps, wheels, body cladding, etc. to worse. I think to myself, in amazement: "How much would it cost to put a nice looking wheel package on that car and make it look 25% better?" Then I think about perspective: From my perspective and that of many people on this forum (I mean think about it, we are car people), those boring, everyday cookie cutter cars don't cut it. For many hard-working, less car savvy people, those cookie cutter cars are more than fine. Those are the people that don't care how they get from place to place as long as they get there. Those are people that have been brought up from birth with GM, Ford, etc vehicles in the family. Those are people from rural communities that only have one dealership within 50 miles and it is a GM, Ford, etc. dealership. For those people, American vehicles have and will be just peachy. The problem for those companies is that when those people get the chance to drive the similarly priced foreign vehicles, they sometimes don't go back. For example, until I bought my current vehicle, I never really noticed how bad many rental cars (mostly american made, base model cars) really are. I just didn't know better. Now, every time I rent a car, I can't wait to get back into my car. It is all about perspective.
 
but why this role reversal? during the 70s and even the early 80s to some extent, it was the japanese and european brands by large that were the econo budget boring vehicles (exempting luxury brands of course).



What happened that caused this shift? The accountants haven't been in charge for THAT long, have they?
 
I cant drive a lot of american cars because it cuts off the circulation to my legs. I have tried an Impala and a GP. The GP was better than the impala but still not good. Thats why I drive a Honda. With all that said I am looking to buy a 02 Camaro :)
 
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