Latest Rental-A Pontiac G6

SilverLexus said:
Have you driven one? It sucks. Poor handling, slow, crap ergonomics. GM can do better than this.
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As I noted earlier, complaining about a base model G6 sucking without comparing it to a GTP is kind of like complaining a base model F-car with a V-6 is slow, or like comparing a Camry to a Lexus ES. GM usually does three trim/equipment levels of each car, with the bottom tier being the cheap/entry/rental, while the top is markedly different. The top model usually has a different engine, different tires/wheels/suspension tuning, upgraded interior, and options that are unavailble on the lower models.
 
truzoom said:
They sure can, but are they? As of right now, I don't really see much going on except the release of new models here and there. Sure they are pushing E85 and hybrid technology, but I just see a lack of focus when it comes to them developing cars that can accomodate the needs of 2006, 2007, 2008...and so on, and something that can TRULY compete with other domestic and foreign models of the same class.



I'm somewhat convinced that GM relies on their loyal customer base to keep them in business, so there may be a tendency to improve, but not redesign vehicles.



And the HHR? I guess GM decided to make something to compete with the PT Cruiser...only 5 years late.



I'm not going to hesitate to say that frankly, I'm tired of GM's lack of innovation and creativity.
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They surely have the corporate greed/management by MBA thing going on. I would have liked to think that GM, which has a corporate history full of technical innovation, would have pulled a fully baked hybrid solution out of the lab when gas hit $3, instead of playing catchup and pushing out vehicles like the Caddy ESV, almost like they had no idea that oil has been before/might be again a scarce commodity .



Once upon a time there were companies that did things because they were the right thing to do, rather than the profitable thing in the near term. Those right things frequently were very profitable in the long term (think Prius), but short-term is where it's at for these guys.



About your last sentence, Zoomer--that's what they have Lutz for! :rolleyes:
 
SilverLexus said:
Have you driven one? It sucks. Poor handling, slow, crap ergonomics. GM can do better than this.
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I have driven one. In fact, my best friend just bought one. It rides a little rough, but it's a little sporty. It doesn't ride like a Lexus, no, but it never claimed to do so, or even try to do so. The stereo is great (factory Monsoon), the sunroof is nice, it's relatively quick (GTP with 240 horsepower), and it gets pretty decent fuel economy. I like the seats and the gauges, and I was comfortable in it. Would I rather have it than an IS350? No. Does Lexus have a car in the same segment that costs $24,000? No.



You're comparing a rental car to a decent car. It'd be like taking a base Mustang out for a test drive from your local Hertz, and assuming the GT is going to be just the same. :think:
 
I have a '02 GTP. My next car would totally be a GP GXP. V8, awesome seats, nav, did I mention the V8? ;) My friends '05 GXP (stock) is faster than my '02 GTP with a couple hundred $ worth of mods, 13.76@101 to a 13.892@97.65.



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SilverLexus said:
Have you driven one? It sucks. Poor handling, slow, crap ergonomics. GM can do better than this.
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I bet a lot of people would feel a Lexus ES has poor handling and is slow. Obviously that's what some people look for in a car. Not everyone wants a firm ride. What I don't get is why when it comes to domestics, people feel it's ok to be super inflammatory and say things like "I can't believe anyone anywhere would ever buy one". Obviously people vote with their dollar and do buy them. Why insult them?



You might take a minute to think about what ergonomics mean. A lot of it is simply having things in the place you expect, and working the way you expect. If you are used to things one way, a different way will feel like crap. It doesn't mean one or the other is necessarily better. Obviously there are some things that are generally bad vs good, like if the shifter blocks putting CD's in, or something like that. But generally a lot is preference. Like you mention a triangle steering wheel. Well, I'd be willing to bet the outside of it is round, so what the inside looks like would seem to be simply a matter of opinion, not necessarily one is bad and one is good.



I'm with you on the red gauges. I hate them. I also hate them in BMW's and Ferraris. But I don't feel it's a mistake to have them, it's just not my cup of tea. I also hate those purple VW gauges. To each their own, though.



I've never driven a G6, and have no opinion on them. Perhaps they are slow and crude. But there's no reason to be inflammatory in expressing your opinion about one. Different strokes for different folks.



I have driven Accords and Camrys, and honestly I don't see what the hype is about. The interiors are fine, but nothing special. They are mostly plastic as well, laid out generally the same, etc. I fail to see how they are better than most domestic interiors, they are simply different. Different style switches, different way to turn wipers on, whatever you are used to will be the one that feels more comfortable to you.



As far as GM doing better than that, I suspect they do. You were driving a rental car, typically the lowest content model available. If you don't think trim, tuning, and engine options can change a car's personality a fair bit, then one would wonder why you drive an ES and not a stripper base-model Camry.
 
I asked why anyone would purchase a pontiac because I honestly don't understand it. If that is inflamatory, rude, or offensive call me Mr. manners.



I don't understand why people take the negative comments about a car company so personally anyways.
 
ebpcivicsi said:
I asked why anyone would purchase a pontiac because I honestly don't understand it. If that is inflamatory, rude, or offensive call me Mr. manners.



I don't understand why people take the negative comments about a car company so personally anyways.
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What makes a Pontiac any different than any other car on the road? The same could be said for any car to try to make an argument. Why would anyone buy a Honda when they could buy a Toyota? Why would anyone buy a Ford when they could buy a Chrysler? A Lambo when they could have a Ferrari? Personal preference might have something to do with it?
 
BlackSunshine said:
What makes a Pontiac any different than any other car on the road? The same could be said for any car to try to make an argument. Why would anyone buy a Honda when they could buy a Toyota? Why would anyone buy a Ford when they could buy a Chrysler? A Lambo when they could have a Ferrari? Personal preference might have something to do with it?
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Right, I guess I just can't understand how someone's personal preference could be a Pontiac over *anything* else. There are always exceptions--I just don't get it.



It's just a car, I really don't see what the big deal is? LOL
 
Years ago I used to be a GM test driver, so I had the chance to drive lots of different models from all their car lines. I always enjoyed the Grand Prix and Bonneville, especially the supercharged models. They were great to drive and perhaps only the Northstar-powered Caddys ranked above that in my book as a daily driver. (I loved the 'Vette, but wouldn't want one as my only car). The smaller Grand Am was another story, it always felt more like an ecomony car to me. Don't even get me started on the Fiero. It was out of production by then, but they were still doing testing to deal with some recall issues. IMHO the only halfway decent Fiero was the 6-cylinder model they made the last year, but by then it was already a doomed model.



Anyway, while I enjoyed driving Pontiacs because they felt "sportier", if I were to buy one I'd have been more likely to look at one of the comperable Buick models. I liked the stlying on the Pontiacs a lot more, but they had a lot of parts that looked and felt cheaper, where the Buicks felt more solid and seemed to have a higher level of quality control. Of course, prototypes are usually a lousy way to judge QA.
 
ebpcivicsi said:
Right, I guess I just can't understand how someone's personal preference could be a Pontiac over *anything* else. There are always exceptions--I just don't get it.



It's just a car, I really don't see what the big deal is? LOL
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There is no big deal, I'm just trying to understand why you don't see why anyone would buy a Pontiac. Sounds a bit silly to say, "I don't see why anyone would buy a Pontiac. There are other cars to be bought." Maybe they preferred the Firebird over the Camaro. Maybe they preferred the GTO over any other car for the same price that has a 6.0L 400+ hp V8, 6 speed manual, IRS, leather, etc.... wait, there are no other cars for the price that has those things. Hmm. Maybe that's why I chose a Pontiac over *anything* else.
 
BlackSunshine said:
There is no big deal, I'm just trying to understand why you don't see why anyone would buy a Pontiac. Sounds a bit silly to say, "I don't see why anyone would buy a Pontiac. There are other cars to be bought." Maybe they preferred the Firebird over the Camaro. Maybe they preferred the GTO over any other car for the same price that has a 6.0L 400+ hp V8, 6 speed manual, IRS, leather, etc.... wait, there are no other cars for the price that has those things. Hmm. Maybe that's why I chose a Pontiac over *anything* else.
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You seem to take it personally because you own a pontiac. I now understand why you would purchase a GTO. Pontiac makes the best cars, they are the most reliable, fastest, have the best long term reliability, and are selling like hot cakes. They also have more available features for the money in all segments of the auto world. They are also in awesome financial standings and stand poised to dominate the world in both sales and engineering. :D



I am kidding, perhaps my own dislike for the brand keeps from understanding why anyone would purchase a Pontiac(perhaps I need to branch out). My needs and goals are different in a car, I need a reliable daily driver, you need 400+ horses. Perhaps later in life my needs will change and I will purchase a Pontiac--if they are still around. :D
 
ebpcivicsi said:
You seem to take it personally because you own a pontiac. I now understand why you would purchase a GTO. Pontiac makes the best cars, they are the most reliable, fastest, have the best long term reliability, and are selling like hot cakes. They also have more available features for the money in all segments of the auto world. They are also in awesome financial standings and stand poised to dominate the world in both sales and engineering. :D



I am kidding, perhaps my own dislike for the brand keeps from understanding why anyone would purchase a Pontiac(perhaps I need to branch out). My needs and goals are different in a car, I need a reliable daily driver, you need 400+ horses. Perhaps later in life my needs will change and I will purchase a Pontiac--if they are still around. :D
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That's kind of a stretch. I never claimed Pontiac was the best at anything. If my car had a Nissan badge on it, but was mechanically identical, and there was no Pontiac GTO, I'd own the Nissan instead. I am brand loyal to GM, but when they stop producing exciting cars that cater to my need for speed, I'll spend my money elsewhere. The fact that they aren't selling like hotcakes is hardly reason for me to look elsewhere. As it turns out, like I pointed out a few times already, the car did have the most available features for the money, which is why I bought it.



I'm not taking anything personally. It doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks about my cars, and I suspect the same goes for most other people regarding my thoughts about theirs. If you were making the same argument towards a Chevy, I would ask the same question.... or a Ford, or an Infiniti. Just because YOU don't like Pontiac, doesn't mean YOU should think it's unruly for anyone else to consider buying one, and it sounds kinda... I'll say ODD, just to keep it civil... for you to make such a claim. That's all I'm sayin.



If I were to say, "I don't see why anyone would buy a Honda over *anything*," you would probably think it's strange, because the basis of that argument all boils down to personal preference.
 
BlackSunshine said:
That's kind of a stretch. I never claimed Pontiac was the best at anything. If my car had a Nissan badge on it, but was mechanically identical, and there was no Pontiac GTO, I'd own the Nissan instead. I am brand loyal to GM, but when they stop producing exciting cars that cater to my need for speed, I'll spend my money elsewhere. The fact that they aren't selling like hotcakes is hardly reason for me to look elsewhere. As it turns out, like I pointed out a few times already, the car did have the most available features for the money, which is why I bought it.



I'm not taking anything personally. It doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks about my cars, and I suspect the same goes for most other people regarding my thoughts about theirs. If you were making the same argument towards a Chevy, I would ask the same question.... or a Ford, or an Infiniti. Just because YOU don't like Pontiac, doesn't mean YOU should think it's unruly for anyone else to consider buying one, and it sounds kinda... I'll say ODD, just to keep it civil... for you to make such a claim. That's all I'm sayin.



If I were to say, "I don't see why anyone would buy a Honda over *anything*," you would probably think it's strange, because the basis of that argument all boils down to personal preference.
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As I stated previously, I was kidding. I now understand why someone would choose a Pontiac, it's just something that I may never choose. Unless of course one day my needs and goals for a vehicle change again, as I previously stated above.



Thank for helping me to broaden my horizons. I now retract my statement, I now completely understand why people choose vehicles.



Just didn't know this was such a touchy subject.
 
LOL. I don't understand why people would choose Pontiac. I don't care if it's a Solstice or a GTO, they make ugly cars that are of crappy quality. The GTO was a DOA design. How did the GM engineers screw that one up? Let's wedge a Corvette engine into something a grandma would drive. Nice work. Sales speak volumes, and this is why Ford and GM are floundering and scrambling to come up with cars that don't suck.
 
Tasty said:
LOL. I don't understand why people would choose Pontiac. I don't care if it's a Solstice or a GTO, they make ugly cars that are of crappy quality. The GTO was a DOA design. How did the GM engineers screw that one up? Let's wedge a Corvette engine into something a grandma would drive. Nice work. Sales speak volumes, and this is why Ford and GM are floundering and scrambling to come up with cars that don't suck.
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:werd: the GTO is a very nice car to drive. hell i took a test drive and i like it alot too much even. to me the car is right on with the first GTO look plain and goes like stink :bigups where they missed to me was the wheel and tire pkg. they need a wheel with a lip and some real good rubber. as a GM employee i am wating for the new Z28 :usa
 
Keep in mind, the GTO is not technically a Pontiac. It is a "slightly" modified Holden, which is a GM. Again, this is proof that the General can build high quality cars. What turns me off is the fact that they build them for everyone EXCEPT the USA.



Ford is the same. Check out the Falcon and the Euro spec. Focus. We get the "old" Focus and the Taurus and / or Fusion!!



I'm not a Chrysler or even a Mercedes fan, but at least we get the best Chrysler has to offer, not the leftovers from Europe.



I traded my '98 GTP Daytona 500 Pace Car in for my Audi and haven't looked back!!
 
Must have struck a nerve. People are really sensitive about Pontiac.



Some points:



1. We are discussing the G6, not the GTO. If the GTO is a good car then that's a different discussion. But on the other hand, why can't they make the G6 more like the GTO if it's so good.



2. I'm not comparing this car to a Lexus, just judging the car on its own merits (or lack thereof).



3. The fact is that GM is struggling because the G6 and others are boring, non-functional cars and the Mazdas, Hondas and Toyotas are much better at the same price point.



4. GM makes some cool cars but they are a small portion of its output.



5. The triangular steering wheel was a big problem, not a preference issue. The damn thing was just uncomfortable as hell and would not allow a proper grip.



Ever wonder why the G6 was my rental in the first place? They can't sell it elsewhere sadly.
 
Coming from a fellow Grand Prix GTP owner...I will agree that after hearing the arguments against the G6...I will probably be led to a different make for my next vehicle. As I would love to get behind the wheel of a GTO/Soltice they arent in my price range as of yet. And Pontiac's low to mid priced vehicles are just not very appealing, especially the current Grand Prix style...If they want to sell a quick car to 20-30 year old men they need to make their cars more sportier, too many car companies are making sporty looking cars but no engine to go with them. (Cobalt - Caliber) Bring back the Firebirds, Camaro, etc..and get styling/power into one vehicle instead of having 20 different cars with each one lacking in a major area.
 
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