Klasse SG, the Bill North way

F

foxtrapper

New member
I've read warning after warning about the difficulties of applying Klasse SG. I also read Bills recommended technique. So off I finally went to apply to to my wifes car.



Hey, this was easy.



Had no problem with keeping the application very thin. Maybe it's because I'm cheap and it appealed to me from a cheating stand point or such. I intentionally over applied in one area just to see what it felt like and what the difficulties were in removing it. But it was very easy to keep it thin on the pad and simply wipe it on, while looking crosswise over the surface.



I simply went with the two panel method. Apply to the second panel, wipe off the first. Continue over the car. Wow, look at that shine!



I don't think there's any issue with lack of bond or reaction. In watching the stuff "cure" I could see it change in a matter of minutes and stabilize. The only areas I ever encountered any difficulties were those that I managed to get a little think. They "cured" slower and were much more difficult to wipe down. Going on extremely thin I could see it going on, and I could see it quickly "cure".



I did two coats, taking about a half hour each to apply.



After I was done I could see some "fume marks" in the paint where it appeared the SG was still interacting with the paint. It did what I figured it would do, over the night it completely balanced and the car loooked great.



It's been a little over a month now, and the car still looks good. It would look better probably if I were to wash it. The paint is still beading up quite nicely.
 
foxtrapper,



Thanks for the update!



I have yet to try SG for the fear of it not coming out right. I think I might have to give it a try with this new 'Bill North' technique.



Cheers,

AMP01, formerly AMP99 :p
 
I tried SG when I was first starting off detailing, it was a headache. Then I boycotted it. Then I got the courage to use it again. I prepped my friends Audi- DACP, SFP, AIO, then SG. I used a MF app. I used the Bill North method for the most part, applied to the whole car, let sit for a few minutes, then took it off. It came off so easily and the shine was incredible! It beads like crazy and it does help with the bird bombs. I am really impressed with everything including ease of use now.
 
I have never had a problem with SG. It does have a learning curve for the average joe to overcome, the "Less Is More" mantra come to mind. A very small spray/spritz bottle helped me to apply it consistently thin and not over use the product.
 
Quick search for Bill North gave me this:



Oh my. OK, a correction to one of the posters. Curing is the time required between coats of a product. Curing is the actual bonding and molecular crosslinking process. For SG, CURE time is 24 hours, not 1 hour. The 1 hour you are referring to is (by some ppl) the recommended DRY time. Many have suggested letting sg dry for an hour to make it easier to buff off. Not true. The best way to remove SG is to wipe on and wipe off. Do a section at a time, similar to how s100 is applied and removed. Using the two towel method or the water in a spray bottle method will cause your SG to develop an oily haze/film down the road, especially as the weather changes. Ask me how I know this. Ask showroom lincoln how he knows this as well. It's the reason why he stopped using klasse.



To apply SG, mist your terry applicator with a non-carnuba based qd. Apply it to a section thinly, so thin you can't even see it. Then immediately wipe with a DRY MF/cotton. Move onto the next section.



I don't recommend using lynn's method either. Buffing your car after having driven it anywhere is asking for trouble. You are just begging for swirls. QD'ing your car after driving is also asking for trouble. Again, ask me how I know this (and on a silver car)!! With that said, its not practical to let your car sit in the garage for 2 days letting the sg dry.



The method I've outlined is the simplest and most effective way to SG a car. It takes me half an hour to SG (apply/buff) to a MB C-Class or BMW 3 Series. There has been no degradation in my SG thus far.



And Ironically, this method is also how klasse USA recommends applying the product. One of the oldschoolers on here sent Bob from Klasse USA an email asking him the best way to apply and remove SG. He said, wipe on, wipe off. Nobody believed him at the time because they thought he was trying to make SG more consumer friendly. It turns out he wasn't bs'ing. I'm proof of that.



And please, no flame intended to anyone on here. Just trying to set the record straight.
Click to expand...



http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29080&highlight=Bill+North
 
I havent had problems with SG either. My paint is still 1 year old so thay may help. Lets see when I do my brothers SI. But, I have applied it the cheap way (few quantity) and the I wont have time to do a second coat way (high quantity) and no probs with removin or with hazing. I do the whole car with a dry applicator mf pad, then to remove used a damp mf with qd .
 
It takes a while to get the knack. I was having a lot of trouble when I first got the Klasse twins. I have been using it for a year now, and I can get the AIO on and off, and the SG spread on the car in under 30 minutes. Then wait and hour and wipe off easily with damp and dry MF's. Very easy. The key is knowing how to get it super thin and working it a bit so there is no haze to begin with. If you have haze right off the bat, you'll have haze after removal. Working it quickly all over will spread it really thin.



I really enjoy using it now that I have learned the trick.



Someone else mentioned it above mentioned the other crucial ingredient, and that is a well prepped surface. I never apply SG without claying now, unless it's my garaged car, and was clayed in the last month. If there are contaminants, the SG is a bear to work with.
 
Now I am getting really confused ..



Bill North posts



"Using the two towel method or the water in a spray bottle method will cause your SG to develop an oily haze/film down the road, especially as the weather changes. "



Reading in other posts it indicates using water ( or a QD which contains water ) within 24 hours to possibly a week will have an effect on the crosslinking and cause hazing.



So what is really the correct SG removal method?



A) buff it off with a dry towel/MF or the likes



B) Buff it off with a towel/MF with the aid of water in a spritzer or on amother towel, or QD added.



I want to eventually try the Klasse but the more I read then more I become confused and the less I want to.
 
ok thats it, i am applying Klasse SG to the ML this weekend! the bill north way!
Click to expand...



Ditto..if the weather holds here in the NE this weekend I will be trying this same method on my Silver 4Runner.
 
I've got a question. Do I still have to wait at least 24 hours between coats?? I'm asking because I will definitely be putting at least 3 coats of SG on the paint before topping off with S100.
 
ExplEddieBauer said:
I've got a question. Do I still have to wait at least 24 hours between coats?? I'm asking because I will definitely be putting at least 3 coats of SG on the paint before topping off with S100.
Click to expand...



Yes, as Bill explains, that the amount of time between layers is the cure time, not the time it sits on the paint before you remove. It still needs to cure 24 hours between layers.
 
i just started sg w/ a car this weekend. i have 1 layer of aio and 1 layer of sg on there. i will probably apply the 2nd coat of sg this weekend. my question is, how long do i have to wait between my last coat of sg and the s100 carnuba?
 
dtsang,



I believe that you should wait at least 24 hrs. after applying SG before you top with S100. Post some pics when done! :xyxthumbs



Cheers,
 
I need to check back in more often!!! Interesting thread!



Jesstzn,



I can understand your confusion. There are currently two klasse application/ and removal techniques on the board. I've used both myself.



The first method introduced was: apply sg, let sit for an hour, and remove with a damp mf. I used this way and encountered a serious problem with my SG. That being that it developed an oily haze/film. Don't confuse this haze with the haze you see from unbuffed sg. They are two different hazes. Unbuffed SG is not a big deal, you just need to go back and buff it off. The oily haze has no fix. I personally believe that if you introduce water to SG before it has fully cured, it will cause the SG to react this way.



My only recourse was to remove the water from the equation and buff SG with a dry towel. Unfortunately this was very difficult. SG becomes harder to remove the longer it sits. So I came up with something different. That being the wipe on/off method with a dry towel again.



In my personal experience, this is the easiest way to buff off SG, while still enjoying the full benefits of the product.



No need to be confused. Try either way you feel is best. Just keep in mind that I'm not the only one who has had problems using water/ a damp MF to remove SG.



ExplEddieBauer,



Greg answered your question perfectly. Anymore, please let me know! Thanks Greg!
 
OK. I used the two MF towel (one damp, one dry) to remove the two layers of SG on my car. It has been 2 months and so far no haze.....but now I am worried. Can I use the wipe on wipe off method to apply another layer of SG or should I go back to AIO first and then do the wipe on wipe off method?
 
~One man’s opinion~



All-In-One (AIO) is a non-abrasive cleaner [you can’t layer as it will remove polish/wax/glaze].

High Gloss Sealant Glaze (SG) is a finishing glaze that works similarly to a wax or polish in that you can layer it (SG x 3 is what I use, and then ‘top’ with P21S).

Apply AIO to a prepped surface, then apply SG x 1 (Bill North method, wipe-on, wipe-off) wait one hour apply SG x 2 ….etc, etc



The AIO already on the car should be (only you can judge)OK to apply SG x as many layers as you want to.



Hope this helps



Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect
 
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