Coatings vs. Standard LSP'S discussion

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mbpress01 said:
Is it your opinion then that the non-professional weekend warrior who does a very good job polishing and uses the quality tools and polishes (flex, menzerna, hd and optimum) should still attempt coatings. I applied coatings twice. Both times car came out good and the sheeting beading was the best I have ever seen. The paint - Lexus black - look good but didn't shine as much as I hoped and I could tell there wasn't a swirl in the paint. The main issue I see is all the risk in improper application - with zaino or any sealant anyone can do it. You just have to make sure there is no polishing oils left from the polishing work. Plus if you mess up or the environment doesn't agree (let's say a storm comes unexpectantly) a dawn wash with citrus red and the paint is ready for another application. With the coating I would assume you have re polish it all off and start over. Hence leave the coatings to the professional. Unlike you being an opticoat professional - you have the time experience and facilities to make them work. I would assume the majority of us don't.
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I did it.

Stick in in garage for 12-24 hrs after
 
boxingfan30 said:
For one , I am on a slow, laggy iPhone 4, and it's extremely annoying.
Washed with dawn, Clayed with another dawn mix. M105 for orange peel removal, blue pad with sf4500. 50/50 IPA with 1 drop of dawn, each panel was left wet for 5 minutes, a second IPA wipe down w/o dawn no dwell time, pressed with the towel to insure squeaky clean results. Car left approximately 1 hour to insure a totally dry finish. OC pad prep and then followed the directions to the letter on application.
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If SF4500 is a menzerna product, I am not sure that what you did would remove all oils, even if the paint felt squeaky clean. That is just my opinion, and I maybe wrong, but as I said earlier, when we were testing some compounds, the german one resisted 100% IPA for 4 rounds before the 5th wipe won. I stopped using menzerna many years ago, but if not coating, if one wants to just have a "swirl free" finish, they are good until those oils dissipate on their own after a few months in which case those swirls will be back.
 
Thomas Dekany said:
It would be your loss. Using a sealant? You will run into the same issue except people don't talk about it much - you have to have a clean surface in order for the sealant to stick. Look at zaino - why do you think it has so many steps and last longer than other sealants? Wax maybe a bit more forgiving but even then you should clean the paint properly before applying it to get the most out of it.
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I dunno, I've been using polymer sealants for many years and never had a problem anything like what's been described here with coatings. One day I may dip a toe in the coating pool....we'll see.
 
Thomas Dekany said:
If SF4500 is a menzerna product, I am not sure that what you did would remove all oils, even if the paint felt squeaky clean. That is just my opinion, and I maybe wrong, but as I said earlier, when we were testing some compounds, the german one resisted 100% IPA for 4 rounds before the 5th wipe won. I stopped using menzerna many years ago, but if not coating, if one wants to just have a "swirl free" finish, they are good until those oils dissipate on their own after a few months in which case those swirls will be back.
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it is a menzerna product yes. This process has worked for me every other time, cquk didn't fail, it just spotted terribly, 22ple held while I had the car for about 5 months before selling it, I have also done about 10-15 other cars without issue the same way.
 
boxingfan30 said:
it is a menzerna product yes. This process has worked for me every other time, cquk didn't fail, it just spotted terribly, 22ple held while I had the car for about 5 months before selling it, I have also done about 10-15 other cars without issue the same way.
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Well oc 2.0 as well as OCP are clear coats and not sealants so thats maybe why 22ple had no issues.
 
MiVor said:
I dunno, I've been using polymer sealants for many years and never had a problem anything like what's been described here with coatings. One day I may dip a toe in the coating pool....we'll see.
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Off the top of my head, I see 2 issues interfering with durability. Oily finish or removing too much as you level. With a regular sealant the issue is also durability which would originate from improper bonding. I can tell you that cleaning the paint will always improve longevity sealant or coating it doesn't matter. How many times do you see members asking for lsp recommendation because their last purchase did last anywhere close to the claim the manufacturer made? Ever wonder why? We always assume that it is the product, but I'd say it is more than not us.
 
Tried OC, liked it, but I favor regular sealants. For one thing, with the OC, I felt the need to get the finish absolutely perfect, since I was applying a "permanent" coating. The application of OC was easy enough (with proper lighting), but the prep work was a killer. With a regular sealant, you can get the finish "90% perfect", knowing you can attack it again in a few months, or next week, since it's easy to reapply. Secondly, you will get mars and microswirls in the OC, from sap, road dust, etc. The OC may last forever, but gets nicked up over time. If I bought a new car, I think I would hit the hard-to-buff areas (bumpers, mirrors, side skirts) with a permanent coating, use regular sealant on the easy access areas. I get why people like permanent coatings, it just doesn't work for me in all situations.
 
Thomas Dekany said:
Off the top of my head, I see 2 issues interfering with durability. Oily finish or removing too much as you level. With a regular sealant the issue is also durability which would originate from improper bonding. I can tell you that cleaning the paint will always improve longevity sealant or coating it doesn't matter. How many times do you see members asking for lsp recommendation because their last purchase did last anywhere close to the claim the manufacturer made? Ever wonder why? We always assume that it is the product, but I'd say it is more than not us.
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I don't believe I ever saw a durability/longevity issue with sealants I've used. Then again, in true 'Autopian form', I probably sealed again long before the previous application failed. Since I currently tend to use an Aquawax topper after nearly every wash over my Duragloss sealant, I believe it lasts a very long time.

Footnote: I've never used Zaino. My experience is mostly with Klasse, Meguires, and Duragloss.
 
I think sometimes it may be the paint. I did a Toyota Tundra (black) that looked like a smeary mess with Zaino, but BFWD did fine. The thing was, I just did a wash, IPA and LSP both times so there shouldn't be any polish oils in the equation. And yes, followed Zaino directions to the letter.
Sometimes you just can't figure it. I personally find Menz Power Lock lasts fine, I use Prima wax as you dry every other wash too. Both work good, fairly cheap, and extremely easy to use. Just my 2 cents.
 
Junebug said:
I think sometimes it may be the paint. I did a Toyota Tundra (black) that looked like a smeary mess with Zaino, but BFWD did fine. The thing was, I just did a wash, IPA and LSP both times so there shouldn't be any polish oils in the equation. And yes, followed Zaino directions to the letter.
Sometimes you just can't figure it. I personally find Menz Power Lock lasts fine, I use Prima wax as you dry every other wash too. Both work good, fairly cheap, and extremely easy to use. Just my 2 cents.
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PL is a great sealant
 
MiVor said:
I don't believe I ever saw a durability/longevity issue with sealants I've used. Then again, in true 'Autopian form', I probably sealed again long before the previous application failed. Since I currently tend to use an Aquawax topper after nearly every wash over my Duragloss sealant, I believe it lasts a very long time.

Footnote: I've never used Zaino. My experience is mostly with Klasse, Meguires, and Duragloss.
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Duragloss 105 is one of my favorites. It has solovents in it and so likely cleans as it goes.
 
MiVor said:
I don't believe I ever saw a durability/longevity issue with sealants I've used..
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Same experience here, though some sealants like UPP are pretty short-lived anyhow.

I've only used a few sealants, can only recall: KSG, FK1000P (we do count that as a sealant, right?), UPP (v2.0 and 3.0) and BF. But all of those are dead-nuts-simple, utterly Accumulator-proof. And some aren't very finicky about what they're applied over top of.
 
Accumulator said:
Same experience here, though some sealants like UPP are pretty short-lived anyhow.

I've only used a few sealants, can only recall: KSG, FK1000P (we do count that as a sealant, right?), UPP (v2.0 and 3.0) and BF. But all of those are dead-nuts-simple, utterly Accumulator-proof. And some aren't very finicky about what they're applied over top of.
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It isn't about finicky but durability. I can't imagine that there wouldn't be a longevity difference if one were to clean the paint vs applying it right over the finish. Fk1000 doesn't count as that is an oily wax. :)

But if people are happy with the results they are getting the more power to them. I just hope we don't get to a point where not claying a car becomes the norm.
 
Thomas Dekany said:
It isn't about finicky but durability. I can't imagine that there wouldn't be a longevity difference if one were to clean the paint vs applying it right over the finish. Fk1000 doesn't count as that is an oily wax. :)

But if people are happy with the results they are getting the more power to them. I just hope we don't get to a point where not claying a car becomes the norm.
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To each his own. Give it a good wash with CarPro Reset, Clay with Speedy Prep Towel, Polish with Optimum's "Rupes," strong alcohol wipe down, and then Kamikaze ISM/or Gloss Coat time. :)
 
A few years back I did a comparison between Megs 21 and DG105. It was a husband & wife thing, hers got the Megs, he had the DG, after 4 months, I did both again and the DG was still looking good and beading, Megs was dead.

Side note, my detailing for others career is over due to my lower back. I think just taking care of my car, wife's, and daughters, will be plenty. My wife is going to share the work with me - I had surgery and she has been keeping me from any work ever since. I look forward to gradually getting back to normal. I guess that new bottle of PL will last a long time now.
 
Junebug said:
A few years back I did a comparison between Megs 21 and DG105. It was a husband & wife thing, hers got the Megs, he had the DG, after 4 months, I did both again and the DG was still looking good and beading, Megs was dead.

Side note, my detailing for others career is over due to my lower back. I think just taking care of my car, wife's, and daughters, will be plenty. My wife is going to share the work with me - I had surgery and she has been keeping me from any work ever since. I look forward to gradually getting back to normal. I guess that new bottle of PL will last a long time now.
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Hope you get well soon. And I have to pick up some Woolite that you reccomend to clean leather and cut it 20:1
 
Junebug said:
A few years back I did a comparison between Megs 21 and DG105. It was a husband & wife thing, hers got the Megs, he had the DG, after 4 months, I did both again and the DG was still looking good and beading, Megs was dead.

Side note, my detailing for others career is over due to my lower back. I think just taking care of my car, wife's, and daughters, will be plenty. My wife is going to share the work with me - I had surgery and she has been keeping me from any work ever since. I look forward to gradually getting back to normal. I guess that new bottle of PL will last a long time now.
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Looked into prp therapy by chance?
 
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