Thomas Dekany
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So why did it fail?
Coatings vs. Standard LSP'S discussion
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So why did it fail?
boxingfan30
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Im not a chemist. I do know I'm by far not the only one who has had the same issues as mine.
Thomas Dekany
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So why blame the product? I realize that THATis the easiest option, but how do we know that you indeed prepped the finish/applied it correctly? Not questioning your abilities, but it would be nice to know exactly what you did - what polishes, how did you clean the paint etc... instead of just saying that you applied it correctly.
If you did and it failed, shouldn't it happen to everyone?
boxingfan30
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Basically I don't feel like listing it all for you when I know I did it right tbh...out of curiosity, what difference would the brand of polishes make though? The paint just has to be completely clean, no Polish IS needed if it's not wanted.
All the coatings I have applied all look really good. Some possibly different than others and that is all taste but all look excellent.
The Polish Angel stuff looks more Wax like and the GTECH EXO v1, GTECH EXO v2, Opticoat 2.0, Gloss coat, and 22PLE look like a hard candy coating. IMO
They are all glossy and wet looking. Its the beading and durability that differentiates them for me.
The Optimum Products I have used Opticoat 2.0 and Gloss Coat are by far and away the most durable in terms of fighting off marring from kids leaning on cars and poor wash methods. I used them on my older sons car first because the Subaru paint is soft and easily marred and second, because he is not one to take care of the finish with any degree of care past a so so wash. it looks great on the car and the only issue I ever have had with the 2.0 was relating to the tightness of the beads. However, It always washed up incredibly easily as nothing stuck to it and looked great. The Gloss Coat is slicker and more hydrophobic and its also going great.
All of the others are working well. The GTECH EXO v2 is my current favorite and only beats the 22ple because its much less expensive. Otherwise they appear to be very similar in looks and performance. Both have been on the car for 4 months at this point, installed a weekend apart. The 22PLE has a longer working time so that makes it slightly easier to install.
I previously had EXO v2 on my DD for 24 months (40K miles of driving) and had stellar performance for about 22 months before it needed to be recoated.
The Polish Angel stuff looks more Wax like and the GTECH EXO v1, GTECH EXO v2, Opticoat 2.0, Gloss coat, and 22PLE look like a hard candy coating. IMO
They are all glossy and wet looking. Its the beading and durability that differentiates them for me.
The Optimum Products I have used Opticoat 2.0 and Gloss Coat are by far and away the most durable in terms of fighting off marring from kids leaning on cars and poor wash methods. I used them on my older sons car first because the Subaru paint is soft and easily marred and second, because he is not one to take care of the finish with any degree of care past a so so wash. it looks great on the car and the only issue I ever have had with the 2.0 was relating to the tightness of the beads. However, It always washed up incredibly easily as nothing stuck to it and looked great. The Gloss Coat is slicker and more hydrophobic and its also going great.
All of the others are working well. The GTECH EXO v2 is my current favorite and only beats the 22ple because its much less expensive. Otherwise they appear to be very similar in looks and performance. Both have been on the car for 4 months at this point, installed a weekend apart. The 22PLE has a longer working time so that makes it slightly easier to install.
I previously had EXO v2 on my DD for 24 months (40K miles of driving) and had stellar performance for about 22 months before it needed to be recoated.
I think Thomas' point is that some polishes are more oily and require much work to remove. Polishing oils left behind can affect bonding of any coating. If I use oily polishes a pre coating APC wash is must for me. The IPA just takes too much work to get the paint squeaky clean for me.
I also have heard that Optimum has a Primer Polish designed to work well with their coatings. I'm not sure if there is a consumer version of this Polish/primer.
I think a lot of coatings (of all brands) fail because the installing person is trying to get the coating to go too far. I was shown how to apply Opticoat 2.0 by a professional and he used a lot more product than I had seen used on the You Tube video I watched prior. He explained that the video was done by someone who was getting 2-3 cars out of a tube deigned for a single car.
I also have heard that Optimum has a Primer Polish designed to work well with their coatings. I'm not sure if there is a consumer version of this Polish/primer.
I think a lot of coatings (of all brands) fail because the installing person is trying to get the coating to go too far. I was shown how to apply Opticoat 2.0 by a professional and he used a lot more product than I had seen used on the You Tube video I watched prior. He explained that the video was done by someone who was getting 2-3 cars out of a tube deigned for a single car.
boxingfan30
New member
I'm not questioning oc hardness, I said I thought it was a good coating, but for someone is "an authorized dealer" to tell me I must have done something wrong because the product had issues for me is just ignorance on their part because I'm not an authorized dealer I couldn't possibly know how to apply it I guess lol.
I was tentative about applying a coating the first time. its really not hard at all, just needs to be done methodically so not spots are missed. its hard to see the film on some of these products and knock down high spots. The newer coatings are much better about leveling than the older ones I have used.
There is also the chance you got a bad bottle or tube. If there is a remnant left, send it back t the manufacturer.
There is also the chance you got a bad bottle or tube. If there is a remnant left, send it back t the manufacturer.
boxingfan30
New member
I threw it out. A bad batch is always possible, I did my brother in laws car and 3 years later his is fine, but the fact of the bad spotting still is something with the water here and not what I want to have to go through again
Sorry I did not see your original issue. What product did you have a problem with specifically, and what was the issue?
I have used a lot of products and none were able to shed water spots caused by my neighbors sprinkler. I had to install a new head at my expense and then I polished off the damage and I have been good ever since. I also invested in a CR spotless dual cartage large unit so I can wash in the sun. It was a drag to wash before dawn and after dark all the time. Our water is hard here and its just something I have had to work around. Failure is not an option
I have used a lot of products and none were able to shed water spots caused by my neighbors sprinkler. I had to install a new head at my expense and then I polished off the damage and I have been good ever since. I also invested in a CR spotless dual cartage large unit so I can wash in the sun. It was a drag to wash before dawn and after dark all the time. Our water is hard here and its just something I have had to work around. Failure is not an option
Thomas Dekany
New member
I do not understand why you wouldn't list your steps? Yes, the paint "just has to be clean" but that may not mean that it is actually clean. If one uses Optimum polishes, you have a lot less to worry about, but if you were to use lets say 3D polishes (used to be my favorites) - I will give you an example what can happen.
At least happened to me. I coated a good friend's car. My steps were: wash/clay/hd adapt/hd polish/IPA. OC was gone in less than a year - when my steps include IPA after EACH polishing step? OC is fine.
FYI, when I worked for 3D, Tunch was working on a compound and we did a test against all the heavy hitters (heaviest compounds) - there was one compound, that looked near perfect when cleaned with 100$ IPA while all the others looked like $*&T. (on fresh Jet Black paint. Took 5 wipes to remove all the oils.
So this is one example where one CAN make an "an honest mistake" and it isn't because of one's ability. Look, you maybe the Michael Jordan of detailers, but I would still suggest that you have an open mind - none of us know EVERYTHING, and don't take it so personally when someone is trying to help you. It is good to learn. When you get to THAT point of "I know everything" - you really don't.
Hope this clears things up.
I may be the ignorant one, but it could also be that I have a little more experience with coatings and I was just trying to help you get better. But who knows, maybe you should be teaching me.
silverfox
New member
The thing with coatings comes down to one thing....the prep must be perfect. Not ok, not really good, not even excellent. That doesn't just mean polishing which really isn't the most important part. Its getting the damn polishing and decon crap off the paint. Think of all the steps and products you are introducing to the paint during prep. All that can be perfect, and yet any coating can turn out lousy or underperform. Its the step just before the coating application that is absolutely crucial. For most users, this is too much BS to deal with. That's the bottom line. Nobody is questioning whether coatings are better than sealants or waxes. That discussion is obvious. However...coatings require everything to be perfect...prep, environment, experience...and finally if you use products from outside the coating manufacturer family...including polish, car wash, toppers etc... Your coating will never perform as intended. Coatings imo should only be considered if done by experienced, or certified people. Otherwise save your money.
Based on that I am convinced. Coatings are a goner for me. I used eraser and the blackfire coating prep twice with the BF Crystal Coat as well as 22PLE. Both cars came out ok but not very glossy and definitely not slick. Actually Zaino looked better and since I figured out why it streaked I am done with the coatings based on what you said. No way I can make it perfect and my environment is outdoors (which clearly could really mess this process up). Thx for this advice.
Where are you located? Perhaps a member can show you the ropes. If you are in the NY Metro area I would show you how to do it. its really easy. So many people try to over complicate this., Its hard to tell you but easy to show.
MiVor
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I gotta say after reading all of this with an open mind, I think I'll stick with sealants and wax!
Thomas Dekany
New member
It would be your loss. Using a sealant? You will run into the same issue except people don't talk about it much - you have to have a clean surface in order for the sealant to stick. Look at zaino - why do you think it has so many steps and last longer than other sealants? Wax maybe a bit more forgiving but even then you should clean the paint properly before applying it to get the most out of it.
boxingfan30
New member
Sorry I did not see your original issue. What product did you have a problem with specifically, and what was the issue?
I have used a lot of products and none were able to shed water spots caused by my neighbors sprinkler. I had to install a new head at my expense and then I polished off the damage and I have been good ever since. I also invested in a CR spotless dual cartage large unit so I can wash in the sun. It was a drag to wash before dawn and after dark all the time. Our water is hard here and its just something I have had to work around. Failure is not an option
Both oc and cquk spotted badly, the uk was so bad I had to polish out the spots, the OC just didn't look very good to me, and it was also not beading anymore and things were sticking pretty bad.
Is it your opinion then that the non-professional weekend warrior who does a very good job polishing and uses the quality tools and polishes (flex, menzerna, hd and optimum) should still attempt coatings. I applied coatings twice. Both times car came out good and the sheeting beading was the best I have ever seen. The paint - Lexus black - look good but didn't shine as much as I hoped and I could tell there wasn't a swirl in the paint. The main issue I see is all the risk in improper application - with zaino or any sealant anyone can do it. You just have to make sure there is no polishing oils left from the polishing work. Plus if you mess up or the environment doesn't agree (let's say a storm comes unexpectantly) a dawn wash with citrus red and the paint is ready for another application. With the coating I would assume you have re polish it all off and start over. Hence leave the coatings to the professional. Unlike you being an opticoat professional - you have the time experience and facilities to make them work. I would assume the majority of us don't.
boxingfan30
New member
For one , I am on a slow, laggy iPhone 4, and it's extremely annoying.
Washed with dawn, Clayed with another dawn mix. M105 for orange peel removal, blue pad with sf4500. 50/50 IPA with 1 drop of dawn, each panel was left wet for 5 minutes, a second IPA wipe down w/o dawn no dwell time, pressed with the towel to insure squeaky clean results. Car left approximately 1 hour to insure a totally dry finish. OC pad prep and then followed the directions to the letter on application.
Thomas Dekany
New member
Of course! You do not need to be a pro to use consumer coatings. It isn't that much harder, but you do need to be at your best. For durability, the paint needs to be free of oils.
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