black wow

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I didn't get a chance to see the link or video that Richard posted, but I can see both sides of the story. From what I've read so far though, it doesn't look like Richard has spammed at all and was just trying to be helpful. I don't think this site, the mods, or DavidB are treating us like they're prison wardens but in fact are the opposite. This site could be all about Ultima, UDM, and products that Autopia carries but we are free on here to discuss about any product, including those that he doesn''t sell and/or belongs to his competitors.



We also have to understand though that with the popularity of internet forums, many people/companies try to take advantage of the free speech we have on here to use it to their financial benefit. Look at the CEO of Whole Foods. For 7 years he's been bashing his competitors on the internet and boards like this without disclosing who he actually was. I see this problem only getting worse because of the anonymous nature of people on the internet.



The issue of spamming and shilling are going to be touchy subjects, especially since we all have different view of things. Some of you still think highly of Justin, I think he's scum. I'm glad there are rules in place to not only protect the interest of the members, but also the interest of the site and its paid sponsors.



Anyway, back to Black Wow. This is a product I really look forward to trying out. I haven't really seen any bad reviews of it yet. I currently have products I'm happy with for my paint, tires, glass, interior, etc. but I've yet to find anything for trim that I'm satisfied with. I don't know if my particular trim is just a lost cause or if the products I've tried just haven't performed like they claimed, but there's always that hope that maybe one product will come along and blow me away. I'm not holding my breath, but this is definitely a product I've been really curious about lately. I, too, have to use up some other products first before I can buy this because I don't have the luxury to buy every flavor of the month or the latest and greatest.
 
Going by DavidBs' rules of SPAM, I agree that, technically, this is SPAM.



I just think the SPAM rules need to be loosen. I agree that sellers shouldn't be able to advertise thier products without sponsorship. But, should questions come up about the products, I think the manufacturers of said products should be able to answer the pertaining questions. Wouldn't it be nice to have a CG chemist on our board? It would certainly save alot of confusion for our members.



Can't wait for my WOW to show up, probably the most excited I've been about a product since the UDM and OOS.





Setec Astronomy said:
No it's not perfect here, but it's better than the alternative.
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:werd:
 
Well one thing I have learned from this string is that Setec sure has a lot of free time:grinno: :grinno: Isn't setec the same person that was kicked off this board for plagiarizing information from product mfg web sites and posting them as his own?? :bolt
 
sonyexec said:
Well one thing I have learned from this string is that Setec sure has a lot of free time:grinno: :grinno: Isn't setec the same person that was kicked off this board for plagiarizing information from product mfg web sites and posting them as his own?? :bolt
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comments like this only lead to :argue , PM him if you have any doubt...
 
There should be a differentation between a descriptive contribution vs. a sales push.



For me technical descriptions, how-it-works discussions are extremely important, but when we reach a slimy "Dude, c'mon, hey this is the muchomegabest and buy it" point, well, this is the crisp border when I call something a spam. Spam is unwanted, spam will find you.



Yet the fine informations which are needed, worthy, which have true substance, are getting rarer and you can't find them easily. Such contributions are missed from many many fronts and when an individual thinks that already this a form of advertising, then he/she have to rethink his/her preconceptions or provide a viable alternative & source from where we can gather these infos - which themselves aren't "sales intents".
 
sonyexec said:
Isn't setec the same person that was kicked off this board for plagiarizing information from product mfg web sites and posting them as his own?? :bolt
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Both the short and long answers are NO.
 
sonyexec said:
Well one thing I have learned from this string is that Setec sure has a lot of free time:grinno: :grinno: Isn't setec the same person that was kicked off this board for plagiarizing information from product mfg web sites and posting them as his own?? :bolt
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No, that was someone else, but I'm glad to know you hold me in the same high regard, LOL!
 
darn, i've been meaning to stop by richard's place and pick some of that up since he lives a couple miles away from me. i've been wondering about it since he posted the results of that boxster detail he did and everyone asked what kind of trim dressing he was using.
 
sonyexec said:
Well one thing I have learned from this string is that Setec sure has a lot of free time:grinno: :grinno: Isn't setec the same person that was kicked off this board for plagiarizing information from product mfg web sites and posting them as his own?? :bolt
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No, no he's not.



But say, aren't YOU the same poster as "Asonyexec"? Care to explain why you have two accounts? Please let me know which account you'd like removed. Oh, and consider this a warning: Calling another member a plagiarist isn't exactly the pinnacle of polite discourse.



Tort

(power-trippin', iron-fisted moderator . . . waves to Jakerooni)
 
Jakerooni said:
The mods are only there to moderate those rules.
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Glad you agree. Here are the rules in question:



:help: Spam is out of control!



We get four kinds of spammers:



- Hit-N-Run Spammers

- Shills

- Wannabe Sellers

- Vendors Who Forget the Rules



Our no spam/no commercialism rules are in place to keep Autopia a comfortable place for everyone. EVERYONE is welcome to participate and post, even vendors. However, you may not make commercial posts.



What is commercial solicitation/spamming?



If you post We/our/my company has... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my product is... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my customers'... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my will be announcing... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my test results for our... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my can make or supply that... you are spamming!



If you or your company would like to have your unaffiliated customers talk about your product, business practice or services, they are welcome to do so. However, as a commercial vendor with a sales intent, you are not.



Tort

(moderator)
 
Tort.. Good to meet you. I like the way you handled the dual account member. Right on the mark as what a mod should be doing.



The whole spamming thing..... Yea Not sure I agree with that.



"What is commercial solicitation/spamming?



If you post We/our/my company has... you are spamming! True

If you post We/our/my product is... you are spamming! Um No this is absoultly NOT spamming. It's informing. Which is the whole point of a message board And should be very much allowed

If you post We/our/my customers'... you are spamming! More like bragging but why split hairs

If you post We/our/my will be announcing... you are spamming! Again could be informing depends on how far they go with the annoucement

If you post We/our/my test results for our... you are spamming! I think this is absoultly needed information. especially on a forum like this. I want to know what works and what dosen't Unless they tell me the only way I'll ever find out is by wasting money on it and stocking my shelves with a bunch of crap that may not be any use to me because no one was allowed to tell me the test results



If you post We/our/my can make or supply that... you are spamming! And I agree this is spamming"





Just my $.02 on this subject. The rules are wound up waaaaay to tight for an open forum. Things definatly need to be re-looked at and re-written to accomodate open forums and access to information.



And to the point of this piticuler thread.. Again in my mind. just because an enthusiast creates a product, dosen't make him a company that's bent on spamming it out. It makes him one guy that created one thing that helps out the rest of the detailing world. I think this clarification needs to be addressed.
 
Jakerooni said:
The whole spamming thing..... Yea Not sure I agree with that.



[snip]



Just my $.02 on this subject. The rules are wound up waaaaay to tight for an open forum. Things definatly need to be re-looked at and re-written to accomodate open forums and access to information.
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Well, that's just it . . . although Autopia allows discussion on all products (good or bad, providing it doesn't have commercial motivation), it's NOT an "open" forum in the sense I think you mean. David Bynon and Autopia Car Care, along with the other site sponsors, are paying for this forum, and quite a bit, too . . . bandwidth costs $$$. Is it fair that spammers and shills promote their products in the forums while actual site sponsors foot the bill? Hell, no. That's what we're trying to fight . . . the rule of thumb is simple: If you stand to gain financially by discussing/promoting a product in the forums, then you shouldn't post on that topic.



You may find the restrictions too tight, but take a look at other car care forums that are sponsored by (or wholly owned by) other vendors . . . on many of those sites, discussion of non-sponsored products is simply not allowed at all. IMO, here at Autopia we've struck a pretty good balance between allowing open discussion, and at the same time filtering out the viral marketers and others that would take advantage of our members.



Tort
 
I think you just clarified something for me on this topic then. I thought this was an enthisiast owned site meaning that David in his love for clean cars started up a web site to that effect and called it autopia. I was unaware that autpia was in fact a commercial owned site. That does make a huge difference then unfortunatly. Your right I can't go on Megs open forum to discuss other products. The same would go for this site then as well. thanks for the clarification on that.
 
Jakerooni said:
I think you just clarified something for me on this topic then. I thought this was an enthisiast owned site meaning that David in his love for clean cars started up a web site to that effect and called it autopia. I was unaware that autpia was in fact a commercial owned site. That does make a huge difference then unfortunatly. Your right I can't go on Megs open forum to discuss other products. The same would go for this site then as well. thanks for the clarification on that.
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Yes, Autopia is affiliated with Autopia Car Care; however, ACC holds itself to the same rules as other sponsors (i.e. vendor-led product discussions, customer service, etc. should take place in the sponsor forums, not general forums).



Keep in mind, though, that Autopia welcomes discussion on all products as long as it's not commercial in nature. The spam rules aren't in place to suppress discussion on non-ACC products; rather, they're in place only to prevent non-sponsors from profiting from the forum that ACC and site sponsors pay for. Generally, this works out pretty well. Enthusiast members can speak freely regarding all products, while members that stand to gain financially are asked to refrain. Yes, that occasionally means that a good source of information is hushed, but IMO, the policy works more often than it fails.



FWIW,

Tort
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Glad you agree. Here are the rules in question:



:help: Spam is out of control!



We get four kinds of spammers:



- Hit-N-Run Spammers

- Shills

- Wannabe Sellers

- Vendors Who Forget the Rules



Our no spam/no commercialism rules are in place to keep Autopia a comfortable place for everyone. EVERYONE is welcome to participate and post, even vendors. However, you may not make commercial posts.



What is commercial solicitation/spamming?



If you post We/our/my company has... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my product is... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my customers'... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my will be announcing... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my test results for our... you are spamming!

If you post We/our/my can make or supply that... you are spamming!



If you or your company would like to have your unaffiliated customers talk about your product, business practice or services, they are welcome to do so. However, as a commercial vendor with a sales intent, you are not.



Tort

(moderator)
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This is EXACTLY what I was referring to.
 
kellyinkc said:
This is EXACTLY what I was referring to.
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Okay Kelly, I mean no harm, no disrespect by this, just take it for what its worth.



Seriously, enough already. The moderator posted and that's it. We don't need other to quote the mods and say exactly etc...



We know. Its been taken care of via Richard speaking directly with David.



No one needs to drag this on any longer or attempt to drag Richard into a mess.



Let's get back to speaking about this amazing product.



All the best.
 
I just felt I needed a short reply.

Actually, I would like to know where it is made, The US?

The other question I have is the beading as being proof. No disrespect here. It is just that with an LSP beading does not mean protection or if it is still there, if I said that right.

GC sheets and carnuaba wax beads like crazy.
 
kellyinkc said:
I just felt I needed a short reply.

Actually, I would like to know where it is made, The US?

The other question I have is the beading as being proof. No disrespect here. It is just that with an LSP beading does not mean protection or if it is still there, if I said that right.

GC sheets and carnuaba wax beads like crazy.
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I have always said and will forever maintain that if given the opportunity to get direct answers from a product's developer it is best and I would take that opportunity all day.



So here, is a prime example where I'll let Richard answer the question.



Personally, I don't think a short reply was needed. It only dragged it on even more.
 
kellyinkc said:
I just felt I needed a short reply.

Actually, I would like to know where it is made, The US?

The other question I have is the beading as being proof. No disrespect here. It is just that with an LSP beading does not mean protection or if it is still there, if I said that right.

GC sheets and carnuaba wax beads like crazy.
Click to expand...



Come to think of it, I feel pretty confident in my answers I'll provide so I'll answer them for you.



If you must really know Black Wow is made in the USA in an undisclosed manufacturing plant in Los Angeles.



And if you must also know all those other questions were answered and offered polietly to yourself and other members by Richard to help answers these sort of questions, when he posted a link to that website dedicated to Black Wow which you deemed spam.



Did you get a chance to look at that website before you pounced on it and called it spam, because it answers a lot of questions about Black Wow.
 
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