are you happy with Obama's progress so far?

[WAS]

This info that they get is from one of those left wing propaganda magazines. These progressives always want to blame everything on Bush. Give it another 2 years and they will still be blaming Bush..:rofl

It's the statistics from your own government ? Didn't know your government was in the magazine printing business.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl: You can't be serious Thank GOD your there and not here because you have noooooooooooooooooo clue. Now you no why i say "keep drinking" pal.

And still, this is all you can come up with. No discussion, no attempt to refute what I said, just more "keeping drinking" comments. Not to mention, you can't even get half your grammar correct in 2 simply sentences. The difference between "know" and "no" is taught in the second grade I believe.

Hey "WAS" Where is your smart a** remarks for this one ? , you seem to have the answer to everything:

Too late for today, I'll respond tomorrow to those posters if I feel like it. Since those posts aren't from you, aren't directed to you, and have nothing to do with you, why do you even care ? You just don't like someone with an opinion that's different than yours, do you ? I'd hate to be your spouse or significant other and have a disagreement with you, it'd be like having a fight with a 2 year old all the time.



6th time around, you taken your chance yet to feel like a big man and make fun of the homeless detailer we have the forum ?

 

[CHEVYMAN]

your grammar correct in 2 simply sentences

Say what ?

 

[Leadfootluke]

I reread the thread title and I will answer no

 

[CHEVYMAN]

If history is any indication, any single-payer initiative will end up costing much more than advocates claim. That, in turn, will lead to higher taxes and/or rationing under which the government will determine which medical treatments will and will not be covered. How do we know this will happen? Because single-payer health care has already been empirically tested on seniors in the United States. Many people may not realize it, but the Medicare program is one of the largest single payers of health care in the U.S. and in the world. An examination of Medicare's 38-year-old track record provides evidence of what happens when the government controls the financing of health services for millions of U.S. citizens.

 

[CHEVYMAN]

He’s misjudged the character of the country in his whole approach. There’s the saying, “It’s the economy, stupid.” He didn’t get it. He was determined somehow or other to adopt a whole new agenda. He didn’t address the main issue.



This health-care plan is going to be a fiscal disaster for the country. Most of the country wanted to deal with costs, not expansion of coverage. This is going to raise costs dramatically.



In the campaign, he said he would change politics as usual. He did change them. It’s now worse than it was. I’ve now seen the kind of buying off of politicians that I’ve never seen before. It’s politically corrupt and it’s starting at the top. It’s revolting.



Five states got deals on health care—one of them was Harry Reid’s. It is disgusting, just disgusting. I’ve never seen anything like it. The unions just got them to drop the tax on Cadillac plans in the health-care bill. It was pure union politics. They just went along with it. It’s a bizarre form of political corruption. It’s bribery. I suppose they could say, that’s the system. He was supposed to change it or try to change it.

 

[WAS]

If history is any indication, any single-payer initiative will end up costing much more than advocates claim. That, in turn, will lead to higher taxes and/or rationing under which the government will determine which medical treatments will and will not be covered. How do we know this will happen? Because single-payer health care has already been empirically tested on seniors in the United States. Many people may not realize it, but the Medicare program is one of the largest single payers of health care in the U.S. and in the world. An examination of Medicare's 38-year-old track record provides evidence of what happens when the government controls the financing of health services for millions of U.S. citizens.

The average working Canadian doesn't pay higher taxes, and our health care is not "rationed". I have not heard of rationing being an issue in ANY western public health care system. Again, more socialist fear-mongering. I don't know that much about Medicare, but let's assume you're correct in that it's not a good system and is bleeding out. Is that because universal health care in and of itself is the culprit, or could it simply be that the Medicare system is not run and managed very well ?

 

[rt4x4]

ccss2005 you are a good fiction writer you should work for fox(faux) news

 

[MSOsr]

You haven't heard of rationing in any public health system? Can you get an MRI done immediately if your doctor thinks you need it? Can you have arthroscopic knee surgery tomorrow if the MRI says you have a torn meniscus? Can you then immediately go to physical therapy and be back to work a week or two after you have disabling knee pain?



"Rationing" means not that there is a fixed number of procedures the government will approve; "rationing" includes not being able to have timely care because the system won't pay for it or support it.



As a result of Obamacare, one of the top local hospital systems in my town will no longer accept medicare patients with a certain secondary payer, because both the hospital system and the carrier agree that Obamacare makes an agreement impossible. As the local paper reported:



Starting next year, Baptist Health's five hospitals in Northeast Florida will no longer accept Humana's Medicare HMO - fallout, both entities assert, from the federal health care overhaul.



Neither party wanted to divulge specifics about the failed contract negotiations. But both were quick to cite as a key factor the federal government's planned cutbacks to Medicare Advantage.





Tell the medicare patients involved there is no "rationing". Give me a break.



Mike

 

[CHEVYMAN]

ccss2005 you are a good fiction writer you should work for fox(faux) news

Just keep going around with blinders on my friend because in the end you will be saying i was right. But it's great to see part of the 41% that thinks Obama is doing a good job chime in . Very good "WAS" & "rt4x4" very good. (Can you say Welfare state) gimmy gimmy gimmy .

 

[CHEVYMAN]

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the Senate bill does little or nothing to reduce insurance premiums. Even if the bill passes, premiums will roughly double by 2016, and keep rising after that. But for millions of Americans, the Senate bill will actually make things worse. According to the CBO, the bill would actually increase insurance premiums by 10 to 13 percent for Americans who don't receive insurance from their employers and buy their own insurance. These increases are over and above any increases that would occur if we did nothing.

 

[Scottwax]

According to the CBO, the bill would actually increase insurance premiums by 10 to 13 percent for Americans who don't receive insurance from their employers and buy their own insurance. These increases are over and above any increases that would occur if we did nothing.

Exactly. I've been responsible for my own health care by purchasing my own insurance (and being self-employed, no one is kicking in any $$$ to help pay the premiums) and I face larger premium increases than I otherwise would have.

 

[WAS]

You haven't heard of rationing in any public health system? Can you get an MRI done immediately if your doctor thinks you need it? Can you have arthroscopic knee surgery tomorrow if the MRI says you have a torn meniscus? Can you then immediately go to physical therapy and be back to work a week or two after you have disabling knee pain?



"Rationing" means not that there is a fixed number of procedures the government will approve; "rationing" includes not being able to have timely care because the system won't pay for it or support it.



As a result of Obamacare, one of the top local hospital systems in my town will no longer accept medicare patients with a certain secondary payer, because both the hospital system and the carrier agree that Obamacare makes an agreement impossible. As the local paper reported:



Starting next year, Baptist Health's five hospitals in Northeast Florida will no longer accept Humana's Medicare HMO - fallout, both entities assert, from the federal health care overhaul.



Neither party wanted to divulge specifics about the failed contract negotiations. But both were quick to cite as a key factor the federal government's planned cutbacks to Medicare Advantage.





Tell the medicare patients involved there is no "rationing". Give me a break.



Mike

A hospital that refuses care because of "contract" negotiations ? You see, that's what's wrong with this picture. It's all about money, money, money. There is not a single hospital in Canada that won't treat you because of some payment or funding dispute. Bottom line is, the end patient is the one who suffers at this nonsense. All those hospitals should be government owned as part of the health care system (as they are in Canada), then you take the greed and money factor out of the equation, and you deal with what should be the main issue, and that's the care of the patients.



MRIs are done ASAP, depending on condition. The soccer player who tore his knee during a game might have to wait if someone with a stroke is ahead of him. Do I feel bad about this ? Nope. It's called triage, and, IMO, when a life is on the line, the one that isn't can wait. And actually, yes, Canada has excellent physiotherapy facilities, never hear of any wait times for those (even for the injured soccer player).



I never said America didn't have good health care. IMO, it's probably one of the best in the world. My problem is with your payment system. Having immediate access to an MRI is awesome, but completely useless if your insurance company won't approve it. And that happens more often than you think. Like I said before, insurance companies are out to make money, NOT to look after your health.

Just keep going around with blinders on my friend because in the end you will be saying i was right. But it's great to see part of the 41% that thinks Obama is doing a good job chime in . Very good "WAS" & "rt4x4" very good. (Can you say Welfare state) gimmy gimmy gimmy .

Again, here comes the "blinders" comment.



7th time around, get a chance to talk to that detailer ? I love how you keep ignoring me on this, it seems when you're actually challenged, you just cower down.

 

[wytstang]

You haven't heard of rationing in any public health system? Can you get an MRI done immediately if your doctor thinks you need it? Can you have arthroscopic knee surgery tomorrow if the MRI says you have a torn meniscus? Can you then immediately go to physical therapy and be back to work a week or two after you have disabling knee pain?

Exactly, When I was suffering from side pains I went to the doctor, he assumed it was an appendicitis and sent me to the hospital (1 hour waiting to be seen). In the hospital I waited 3 hours in the waiting room before I had my MRI, 2 1/2-3 hours after the MRI I was in the surgery waiting room being prepped for surgery. 2 hours later I was on the table being cut up (that's when they figured out it was diverticulitis not appendicitis). 4 hours later I was in the recovery room with an IV and on demand morphine when ever I was in pain (no waiting for a nurse to come in and give me pain relief). Less then 10 hours I was seen and on the surgery table. Best part is if I hadn't of had health insurance the results would have been the same.

 

[WAS]

Best part is if I hadn't of had health insurance the results would have been the same.

Even if the results were the same, you'd be in massive debt, probably have to go bankrupt, lose your home, car, and anything of any monetary value. Or, you could have a public system where the results would have been more or less the same, and not worry at all about the money.



Do you believe that in another country, say Canada or the UK, we would have just let the patient's appenix burst while they waited 2 to 3 months for surgery ?



It baffles me that you guys actually believe things like that, without ever having witnessed it or experienced it yourself.

 

[MSOsr]

[quote name='WAS']A hospital that refuses care because of "contract" negotiations ? You see, that's what's wrong with this picture. It's all about money, money, money. There is not a single hospital in Canada that won't treat you because of some payment or funding dispute. Bottom line is, the end patient is the one who suffers at this nonsense. All those hospitals should be government owned as part of the health care system (as they are in Canada), then you take the greed and money factor out of the equation, and you deal with what should be the main issue, and that's the care of the patients.



MRIs are done ASAP, depending on condition. The soccer player who tore his knee during a game might have to wait if someone with a stroke is ahead of him. Do I feel bad about this ? Nope. It's called triage, and, IMO, when a life is on the line, the one that isn't can wait. And actually, yes, Canada has excellent physiotherapy facilities, never hear of any wait times for those (even for the injured soccer player).



I never said America didn't have good health care. IMO, it's probably one of the best in the world. My problem is with your payment system. Having immediate access to an MRI is awesome, but completely useless if your insurance company won't approve it. And that happens more often than you think. Like I said before, insurance companies are out to make money, NOT to look after your health.



This thread is about Obama's perfomance..........which has caused the problem I pointed out. It's not about whether there should be a single payer system in the US. The point is that Obamacare has caused reduced access to older people in order to pay for medical care for people who've never had insurance, possibly due to their decision they didn't need it (young "indestructible" people) or shouldn't have to pay for it (welfare recipients). The point is, anyone who shows up with an emergency situation gets treated, as the system stood before Obamacare.



Triage in the US is a matter of minutes......not potentially months. See the post of the guy who was in surgery hours after presenting at the ER. Waiting a few hours is enough to kill some people, which, if it happens in the US, results in lawsuits against the healthcare providers. Even delayed minutes can result in lawsuits in the US.



How many Canadian doctors were trained in the US?



Mike

 

[CHEVYMAN]

This thread is about Obama's perfomance..........which has caused the problem I pointed out. It's not about whether there should be a single payer system in the US. The point is that Obamacare has caused reduced access to older people in order to pay for medical care for people who've never had insurance, possibly due to their decision they didn't need it (young "indestructible" people) or shouldn't have to pay for it (welfare recipients). The point is, anyone who shows up with an emergency situation gets treated, as the system stood before Obamacare.



Triage in the US is a matter of minutes......not potentially months. See the post of the guy who was in surgery hours after presenting at the ER. Waiting a few hours is enough to kill some people, which, if it happens in the US, results in lawsuits against the healthcare providers. Even delayed minutes can result in lawsuits in the US.



How many Canadian doctors were trained in the US?

WOW!!! That was posted on 8-19-10 and no response from "WAS" what's up need some time to come up with your propaganda ? :grinno::grinno:

 

[CHEVYMAN]

get a chance to talk to that detailer ? I love how you keep ignoring me on this, it seems when you're actually challenged, you just cower down.

You keep bringing that up. What is this a spokes model for your agenda ? Don't forget if you get sick and need to wait for care, you can always come here to the good old U.S.of A.

 

[spotter]

Just thrilled with all of his campaign promises about transparency. Before signing any bills they would be on the White House web site for 5 days for the public to review....The congressional health care negotiations would be broadcast live on C-Span....End the hiring of former lobbyists to high White House positions...End no-compete contracts with the government....End all earmarks.....



Yeah I think he is doing a bang up job of telling people one thing and doing another.



A cartoon in the 1934 Chicago Tribune describes "Plan of Action for the U.S. Spend! Spend! Spend! Under the guise of recovery - Bust the Government - Blame the Capitalists for the failure - Junk the Constitution and declare a dictatorship "



I admit I am biased against OBama ...... and scared of where he is leading us.

 

[Scottwax]

scared of where he is leading us.

:werd: Exactly.

 

[CHEVYMAN]

Just thrilled with all of his campaign promises about transparency. Before signing any bills they would be on the White House web site for 5 days for the public to review....The congressional health care negotiations would be broadcast live on C-Span....End the hiring of former lobbyists to high White House positions...End no-compete contracts with the government....End all earmarks...

Nicely put!!!!