ntwrkguy1
New member
I figured I'd save you the trouble -- here is the proof you need to see Clinton was a moderate. What exactly did you think he was?
Bill Clinton on the Issues
Bill Clinton on the Issues
are you happy with Obama's progress so far?
- Thread starter BigAl3
- Start date
CHEVYMAN
New member
Good i'm glad have a nice life
CHEVYMAN
New member
Len_A said:
It wasn't something you said, it was everything you know nothing about. and as far as the deleted part i'm kinda glad you got to see it.
CHEVYMAN
New member
These Obama supporters are the ones that want everything handed to them the rest of their lives. Just sit back and let the Government pay for everything. What ever happen to people who work hard for a living.No now they say i deserve what everyone else has and i don't need to work for it. WELFARE
wytstang
I see you.....
Zero is doing a crappy job but what did people expect when they voted in such a rookie?
CHEVYMAN
New member
wytstang said:
Community organizer :spit: What a waste
ntwrkguy1
New member
It was a sad testimony to just how bad things are politically when all we had to choose from in 2008 was a political lightweight community organizer who had a bumbling loudmouth as a running mate on one side, and a too-old-for the office Senator who had a bumbling loudmouth for a running mate on the other side.
Is it too much to ask for some decent candidates from both sides? Honestly, what we need -- and we'll likely never get it, with the corruption endemic to either side -- is the rise of a STRONG third political party. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are working for me right now, just the special interests that line their pockets.
Is it too much to ask for some decent candidates from both sides? Honestly, what we need -- and we'll likely never get it, with the corruption endemic to either side -- is the rise of a STRONG third political party. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are working for me right now, just the special interests that line their pockets.
CHEVYMAN
New member
ntwrkguy1 said:
I agree with that!!!
artm3
New member
CCSS2005 said:
are you nuts?
I run a busines that employs dozens
I provide health care (btw, it's tripled since 2000)
I've been working since I was 12
served in the Army
and paid for my own college....
and yes, the tax cuts being eliminated (individual >200k, couple >250k) will affect me...
as it will <2% of the Country... actually only 1.5% make > 250k / household...
and since >1/2 voted for Obama, knowing he would let it expire for this income bracket (like the repubs didn't use this against him), they must agree with it, so only 1% of the affected disagree...
but they got all these koo-koos making 40k lobbying for them...stooges
even Reagans top economist calls letting the cuts stand a road to bankruptcy
I will pay more, so what...
I am a Patriot, just like the farmers who gave Washington livestock and harvest to feed the troops
I will take less, so our troops may live...
and the deficit may be addressed
Gates will do the right thing, cut defense spending
it has doubled since 2000, NOT counting special approps for the war ~1 bil and counting...THAT is what has buried us...it's well over 1/2 the budget...
Eisenhower
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
WAS
Driven
CCSS2005 said:
Len knows nothing about what he's talking about ? This coming from the person who has never experienced any other type of health care system other than the private one he's currently using ?
CCSS2005 said:
Nope. Never said everything should be handed out for nothing. Understand that a universal health care system is paid for by taxes. Whatever happened to people who work hard for a living ? How about you work hard, everyday of your adult life, just to have a stroke at age 52, requiring multiple operations and specialist visits. The co-pays alone could add up to tens of thousands of dollars. You're out of work, your bills are piling up, you can't afford your mortgage anymore, you can't sell your home because its value is half of what you bought it for.... See where I'm going with this ? And how about the poor ? They don't deserve health care just because they've been dealt some bad cards in life ? Again, I challenge you to talk to the detailer on this very forum who is homeless because he couldn't afford his medical bills. Go tell him that he's a "welfare" case and that he just needs to work harder. Go ahead. I think you'll find it a bit harder to do with a real person vs talking rhetoric.
Oh, and I found the story I was speaking about a few pages ago:
There is a scene in Sicko — Michael Moore's controversial new film about U.S. health care — that captures both the power and the limits of Moore's cinematic polemic. A mother is speaking about her 18-month-old daughter, Mychelle, who became ill one evening with vomiting, diarrhea, and a high fever. At the nearest emergency room, Mychelle is treated by a physician who suspects, rightly, that she has a life-threatening bacterial infection. But rather than give her antibiotics, the doctor calls her insurer, whose physician-gatekeeper tells him that Mychelle is not covered at the hospital and must be taken to another facility. The doctor repeatedly says that Mychelle needs care, and he is repeatedly told that she must be transferred first. Finally, nearly 3 hours after arriving at the hospital, wracked by seizures, Mychelle is taken to the approved facility. She dies 15 minutes later.
Maybe the little girl deserved to die because her mother should have worked harder and bought a better health care insurance plan ?
CHEVYMAN
New member
I tried to sympathize with your lose of your job but your just going around with blinders on. Until you open your eyes and see where we are headed their is no hope. Like i said give it 2yrs time and you'll see what i mean.
MSOsr
New member
Oh, and I found the story I was speaking about a few pages ago:
There is a scene in Sicko — Michael Moore's controversial new film about U.S. health care — that captures both the power and the limits of Moore's cinematic polemic. A mother is speaking about her 18-month-old daughter, Mychelle, who became ill one evening with vomiting, diarrhea, and a high fever. At the nearest emergency room, Mychelle is treated by a physician who suspects, rightly, that she has a life-threatening bacterial infection. But rather than give her antibiotics, the doctor calls her insurer, whose physician-gatekeeper tells him that Mychelle is not covered at the hospital and must be taken to another facility. The doctor repeatedly says that Mychelle needs care, and he is repeatedly told that she must be transferred first. Finally, nearly 3 hours after arriving at the hospital, wracked by seizures, Mychelle is taken to the approved facility. She dies 15 minutes later.
Maybe the little girl deserved to die because her mother should have worked harder and bought a better health care insurance plan ?
Michael Moore is a master of editing. If the original emergency room felt the little girl was acute, they HAD to treat her, coverage or not. If they felt she was not acute, it was appropriate to transfer her.
I would bet that Moore read some lawsuit by the mother and believed everything that was alleged. The mother probably sued both the original hospital and the carrier, alleging the first ER had to treat her, or, in the alternative, the carrier made the first ER transfer the patient (which is BS, unless the initial ER found the girl was not in an acute situation.)
Mike
There is a scene in Sicko — Michael Moore's controversial new film about U.S. health care — that captures both the power and the limits of Moore's cinematic polemic. A mother is speaking about her 18-month-old daughter, Mychelle, who became ill one evening with vomiting, diarrhea, and a high fever. At the nearest emergency room, Mychelle is treated by a physician who suspects, rightly, that she has a life-threatening bacterial infection. But rather than give her antibiotics, the doctor calls her insurer, whose physician-gatekeeper tells him that Mychelle is not covered at the hospital and must be taken to another facility. The doctor repeatedly says that Mychelle needs care, and he is repeatedly told that she must be transferred first. Finally, nearly 3 hours after arriving at the hospital, wracked by seizures, Mychelle is taken to the approved facility. She dies 15 minutes later.
Maybe the little girl deserved to die because her mother should have worked harder and bought a better health care insurance plan ?
Michael Moore is a master of editing. If the original emergency room felt the little girl was acute, they HAD to treat her, coverage or not. If they felt she was not acute, it was appropriate to transfer her.
I would bet that Moore read some lawsuit by the mother and believed everything that was alleged. The mother probably sued both the original hospital and the carrier, alleging the first ER had to treat her, or, in the alternative, the carrier made the first ER transfer the patient (which is BS, unless the initial ER found the girl was not in an acute situation.)
Mike
I got laid off fifteen months before Obama was elected. However poor a job this administration is perceived to be doing, the Bush administration, whom I did vote for, was no great shakes. The health care reform you keep railing against, as poor a piece of legislation as it is, at least it attempts to address the problems. The counter proposals from the GOP, if they can even be called that, were so minor incremental in nature, they were of zero use. "Pre-existing conditions" was a topic no one else would not even discuss. That's the tip of the iceberg. Slow change isn't going to help. At the same time, this bill is undoubtedly going to increase costs to business, and equally and undoubtedly slowing down any rehiring as businesses try to figure how exactly how this law is going to impact their bottom line. The problem is, as artm3 pointed out with his premiums, health insurance premiums have tripled since 2000. Please tell me what else tripled in price in the last ten years?CCSS2005 said:
Before Obama was elected, before the health care legislation was passed, you know what was THE most common questions I was asked in what few interviews I was able to score, as a then near 50 year old? "Do you need health insurance?" As bad as the competition was for jobs between September, 2007 and January of 2009 (right after my wife was laid off - I was on her insurance, and took cash from my old job in lieu of their sh*ty coverage), since then, since my wife's COBRA was going to eventually run out, being over 50 is a double millstone around my neck. In addition to being seen as too experienced for what ever jobs I apply for, I guarantee that any business with less then 50 people is looking at the bottom line with regard to how much the health insurance premium for me is going to cost them. I know this for an absolute fact, because dropping off my previous employer health insurance offset the per-employee increase we were going to get because the youngest guy quit.
So the private care system is broken. Single payer probably won't work, because of the costs - as bad as Canada's may seem to you, at least their economy is stronger, per person, than any of the European Union members economies are. Being a major oil exporter (the USA's number one foreign source, not OPEC) helps them, and their system is no where near as generous as Great Britain's, and as such, no where near as broke as Great Britain's.
Do I want to see a single payer system here? No. Will we eventually see one? No, but private care isn't going to collapse completely either, no matter what anyone thinks. In the long run, we'll probably see a hybrid system, part public, part private, and most, if not all, of the countries with single payer systems will eventually see either a move toward a hybrid system too. And then, even that will be f***ed up.
WAS
Driven
MSOsr said:
Trust me, I'm the first one to be skeptical about Michael Moore's movies (again, I'm not a fan of Bowling for Columbine at all). I've researched Mychelle's story, and have not found any evidence that the story Michael Moore showed was "bent his way".
The truth is, these things happen everyday. Hospitals do NOT treat you simply because you're acute and in need of it. I have seen this FIRST hand, not just through "some movie" or "someone's story". A tight lid is kept on this type of thing, because if everyone in America knew what really went on and happened every single day, none of you would EVER put up with private health care.
CHEVYMAN
New member
OMG take some advise : If you believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear, You'll make it through life!!! (MR. WORLD TRAVELER):rofl
while i like to be optimistic instead of pessimistic, you would think things can't get any worse but they are in some ways. hopefully Obama will deliver and pick up the pieces that were before him and any issues that lie ahead. i sincerely hope EVERYONE on here if they were laid off or what have you, venture into something bigger and better down the road and be happy in the long run...
CHEVYMAN
New member
The sad thing is you will see a single payer program because the premiums will sore so high that these companies will be forced into the Government program (which will become a single payer program) That's why if your company drops the insurance you yourself will have to pay the government run insurance out of your pocket and if you choose not to then they will fine you for not having insurance and if you read the bill the I.R.S. is going to be in charge of this. YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK
WAS
Driven
CCSS2005 said:
That makes no sense ? Also, why do you feel the need to finish every single one of your posts with an ALL CAPS ending ? Do you get THAT worked up about being challenged on your opinions ? Oh hey, did you talk to the detailer on this forum who is homeless because of his medical bills ? Still waiting to hear how that's going.
CCSS2005 said:
*yawn* Same thing you've already said and already been debated over. You're just going in circles now.