Another PC swirl removal thread...

1 Clean WS6

1 Clean WS6

Detailing Rottweiler
Hey all!!



I've seen a few too many "PC can't do that" threads so as an avid PC user...I'll throw my two cents in. ;)



I am a full time pro and use a PC for 90% of my work. I do own a Makita 9227 that I do use for the total "basket cases" usually combined with Meg's 7006 pads and either Meg's #84 or #85. For me the PC is a simple, effective and safe tool that can tackle almost any job I ask of it. Unlike a rotary I never have to worry about how thin the paint on a vehicle is, catching an edge on a body line, sling or holograms...the sacrifice for that safety is time. I can say with certainty that it probably takes me twice as long to polish a vehicle with the PC than it does with a rotary but the same results can 9 times out of 10 be achieved. My simple solution on a business level is charging my customers more for in-depth details. Knowing that there won't be any "swirls" (i.e. holograms) combined with the end results of the detail have allowed me to prosper at my job for the past six years.



I in no way want you to think that I am bashing the rotary aficionados *I* just have a different preference in my choice of tools to complete my job. The purpose of this post is just my way of saying "Yes...the PC can do that". :waxing:



Here is an example of PC polishing on an '03 Mustang Cobra that I recently detailed. As you can see the paint was trashed...bonded contaminants galor and heavy marring. All polishing was done with a PC 7424 with a 6oz counter weight and 6" backing plate. Pads were LC orange for IP; LC white for FPII; LC black for VM and Meg's 9006 for CMW.



Before (after wash and clay)...



03KBCobraswirls1A.jpg




03KBCobraswirls2A.jpg




03KBCobraswirls3A.jpg




Clay after just one panel...



03KBCobraclayA.jpg
 
After IP and FPII. No glaze or LSP are applied in these pics...



03KBCobraIPFP1A.jpg




03KBCobraIPFP2A.jpg




03KBCobraIPFP3A.jpg




Finals...



03KBCobrafinal1A.jpg




03KBCobrafinal2A.jpg




03KBCobrafinal3A.jpg




I'll post a full "spread" on the detail in the click and brag forum tomorrow.
 
:) I am in the same boat. The safety of the PC is usually worth the time...although a few Audis have convinced me I need to at least step up to a Cyclo.



Excellent work!
 
Mike: Kind of bonehead common-sense response on my part, but do you ever use the Makita followed by the PC? That's a great way to save time on the cutting step (if it's necessary,) but still finish with the orbital so you're completely sure you're safe and hologram-free.



I do agree with your post, though. 95% of the time I'll reach for the PC first. We all preach about using the least abrasive method first, it's just following that same rule. Only reason I bought the rotary was because of the occasions where you have to deal with exceptionally difficult GM/Mercedes/Audi/etc clear.
 
tailwind I always follow my rotary work with the PC any time I use it. I 100% agree with you that using the Makita for the cutting step would absolutely save time but again I still prefer to sacrifice some time and use the old PC for that step.



For dealing with hard clear I simply follow the four "p's" ;)... process, product, pad and patience .
 
Good post.



I recently got a PC, picked up my products. I am at school so I have not got a chance to use it yet. But I own a 2004 Black Mustang GT, and the swirls are in the same boat as yours. Not sure if my Optimum Polish is going to aggressive enough to get rid of all the swirls, but I am going to take my time, and make multiple slow passes with the PC to do my best to get them out :waxing:
 
Yeah, good post and I agree.



I only get out the rotary if I can't make decent headway with the PC/Cyclo. Just not having to tape, deal with sling, etc. makes it a no-brainer for me.



I *do* need the rotary to do some jobs to my satisfaction though, but it's not like my vehicles looked awful before I got it.



IMO everybody who thinks the PC "can't do correction" oughta try it with 4" pads. You can do *damage* with it when using the smaller pads (gee, ask me how I know :o ).
 
You can definitely correct paint with the PC, but ever since I got my cyclo I reach for that instead. I'm surprised there isn't more full time detailers on this board that don't use the the cyclo.



Nice informative post Mike :xyxthumbs



Disclaimer: I'm not a full time detailer
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, good post and I agree.



I only get out the rotary if I can't make decent headway with the PC/Cyclo. Just not having to tape, deal with sling, etc. makes it a no-brainer for me.



I *do* need the rotary to do some jobs to my satisfaction though, but it's not like my vehicles looked awful before I got it.



IMO everybody who thinks the PC "can't do correction" oughta try it with 4" pads. You can do *damage* with it when using the smaller pads (gee, ask me how I know :o ).
Click to expand...



I want to know more about the 4" pads Accumulator.



This post has made me stop whining about my PC results. I always use a rotary and just tried a PC a few weeks ago.
 
Yes, the PC can do everything the rotary will...just depends on how much time you got. Though I'm a rotary first kinda-guy, I love my PC and couldn't survive without it. I just did a Jeep Wrangler with fairly heavy swirls and was able to know out 85% of the swirls with PG and then OP...both applied via PC. I don't think I could have done any better with the rotary and a two-step process...blew me away. And the best part about using a PC is the fact it doesn't require the same level of concentration...the safety factor.
 
tailwind said:
Out of all of them, the last "P" is the one that really sucks. Heh.



Good post.
Click to expand...



It is also the one some customers might not be willing to pay for...although taping and cleaning up might cancel out the time savings in some instances.
 
Scottwax said:
It is also the one some customers might not be willing to pay for...although taping and cleaning up might cancel out the time savings in some instances.
Click to expand...



Very true. A lot of times, a thorough explanation isn't enough for some people, mainly the ones that don't care if the car looks "perfect", they just want it cleaned up a bit.



I've tried explaining to a few the benefits of a clay and two-step polish, but they still insist on a basic wash/wax and vacuum, nothing else.
 
jsatek said:
I want to know more about the 4" pads Accumulator.



This post has made me stop whining about my PC results. I always use a rotary and just tried a PC a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...





I've only tried the Cyclo brand pads but they make the PC much more effective. It doesn't bog down and merely "jiggle" when you apply pressure. I've been able to remove all the marring I felt safe about (cheap thin factory clear) on my MPV with just the PC/4" pads and/or the Cyclo, never took the rotary to it and it's fine except for a few RIDS that I'd be stupid to remove.



I played around on a to-the-metal scratch on it with the PC/Cyclo Green/PI-III RC 05933. Knew I'd have to have it spotted in by my paint guy anyhow. I cut through the clear on the sides of the scratch with that combo, and I was *not* being goofy-aggressive about it. I still think it was a sign of thin clear, but it did give me a little more respect for the PC/4" setup.



But IMO the PC can't really do what the rotary can because the rotary can add heat to the equation and with products designed for rotary-use-only you have more than just abrasion-over-time going on.



I simply can't do the same correction on Audis with the PC/Cyclo that I can with the rotary, and I've spent many, many hours (on one panel) trying. On other paints yeah, but not on ones that are very hard, it seems to require a different technology and it's not just about saving time. NO, I don't have a good explanation for it, just the first-hand experience that's lead me to that conclusion.
 
Accumulator said:
I've only tried the Cyclo brand pads but they make the PC much more effective. It doesn't bog down and merely "jiggle" when you apply pressure. I've been able to remove all the marring I felt safe about (cheap thin factory clear) on my MPV with just the PC/4" pads and/or the Cyclo, never took the rotary to it and it's fine except for a few RIDS that I'd be stupid to remove.



I played around on a to-the-metal scratch on it with the PC/Cyclo Green/PI-III RC 05933. Knew I'd have to have it spotted in by my paint guy anyhow. I cut through the clear on the sides of the scratch with that combo, and I was *not* being goofy-aggressive about it. I still think it was a sign of thin clear, but it did give me a little more respect for the PC/4" setup.



But IMO the PC can't really do what the rotary can because the rotary can add heat to the equation and with products designed for rotary-use-only you have more than just abrasion-over-time going on.



I simply can't do the same correction on Audis with the PC/Cyclo that I can with the rotary, and I've spent many, many hours (on one panel) trying. On other paints yeah, but not on ones that are very hard, it seems to require a different technology and it's not just about saving time. NO, I don't have a good explanation for it, just the first-hand experience that's lead me to that conclusion.
Click to expand...



I think my success with the rotary can be attributed to the fact that the cars I was polishing were 24hrs out of the oven. The finishes were extremely responsive to the heat and torque of the rotary and the 3M chemicals.



I just used the PC on one of my cars last night to test my new theory. I sat the PC on the paint in a way I would not with the rotary, for me it was an extremely long time, I was concerned with bruning the paint and material caking. The results were to my expectations.



I think polishing a car with a rotary takes a long time, you guys that use the PC must be Saints.
 
jsatek said:
I think my success with the rotary can be attributed to the fact that the cars I was polishing were 24hrs out of the oven....



...I think polishing a car with a rotary takes a long time, you guys that use the PC must be Saints.
Click to expand...



Remember that fresh-from-the-oven paint is softer than it'll be after a few weeks of outgassing. I have to radically change my approach over the first few months of a new paintjob's life as it gets *so* much harder! Having the right combos in mind for the different stages a paint goes through is very helpful, sounds like you know *just* what works for you on the fresh ones.



Yeah, I too take a long time with the rotary and life's too short do do much major correction with the PC/Cyclo ;) I could speed things up if I used harsher products with the rotary, but I'd rather work within my comfort zone/current abilities.



Oh, and if you experiment with the 4" pads, be careful how long you leave it in one spot if you're applying pressure. Without the pressure you won't hurt anything, but *with* the pressure it's a different ballgame. Without the bogging you don't have the big clue that you're pressing pretty hard so it's easy to get a bit more heavy-handed than normal.
 
Accumulator said:
But IMO the PC can't really do what the rotary can because the rotary can add heat to the equation and with products designed for rotary-use-only you have more than just abrasion-over-time going on.



I simply can't do the same correction on Audis with the PC/Cyclo that I can with the rotary, and I've spent many, many hours (on one panel) trying. On other paints yeah, but not on ones that are very hard, it seems to require a different technology and it's not just about saving time. NO, I don't have a good explanation for it, just the first-hand experience that's lead me to that conclusion.
Click to expand...



I say tomato you say tomatoe my friend. ;) It has been my conclusion through first-hand experience that a PC can correct hard clear. I've polished many, many a Corvette with my PC and been able to remove defects. I think we must take our respective tools in hand...go polish something and agree to disagree. :cool:



As far as heat generation I agree 100% the rotary will generate more heat faster but a PC can generate a fair amount of heat. Try this...take a light cut pad...turn your PC up to 6 and place you hand on the pad surface with enough pressure to just start bogging the motor. In a short period of time your hand will warm to an uncomfortable tempature. When heat is concerned a rotary is like a microwave oven = high heat RIGHT NOW while a PC is like an electric oven on pre-heat. It takes some time but eventually it gets to 350 and you can cook those tater tots. :D
 
Intersting tread. Does the Cyclo do the same as a PC with a 4" pad then? Or is it weaker becouse of the two head design or can they even compare. :think:
 
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