Coatings vs. Standard LSP'S discussion

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boxingfan30 said:
Looked into prp therapy by chance?
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Whats that? I have recently diagnosed back issues... Neuro recommended a two level spinal fusion. I'm not exactly enthusiastic and trying to look for alternative options. Really don't want my stomach cut open and rods and screws in my back at 30. No car wreck or anything, and I'm 6'2 190. It's nuts to me that my back is that messed up.
 
jrock645 said:
Whats that? I have recently diagnosed back issues... Neuro recommended a two level spinal fusion. I'm not exactly enthusiastic and trying to look for alternative options. Really don't want my stomach cut open and rods and screws in my back at 30. No car wreck or anything, and I'm 6'2 190. It's nuts to me that my back is that messed up.
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Its a newer therapy that uses platlets from your own blood that are separated by being spun, the platelets are then injected back to the site of pain where the blood activates them. The healing rate is hundreds of percents higher than our bodies can normally do. It's good for soft tissue, discs in back, meniscus (which I am going to get it done for), shoulders, maxillofacial surgery, even hair and scalp therapy. There's also hgh site injections. Don't get surgery if it's at all possible man. So often it makes things worse. Look up dr. Lutz prp therapy, just do a google search, he has a lot of articles and studies, especially for back issues.
 
Thomas Dekany said:
It isn't about finicky but durability. I can't imagine that there wouldn't be a longevity difference if one were to clean the paint vs applying it right over the finish...
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But the penultimate product part of many systems (the "pre-cleaner" or "Gloss Enhancing Paint Cleaner" is a long way from bare paint, especially the filler-rich ones. Most people never use KSG on bare paint, always putting it on top of KAIO.

BUT in all fairness, I'm certain you've used a *LOT* more LSPs than I have and I only know how my few behave. And I *am* a big fan of stripping the oils from certain polishes even if they've never copromised my LSP durability.

..Fk1000 doesn't count as that is an oily wax..
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I know the naming game varies with who's playing, but I just knee-jerk about synthetic products being called "wax". My view is that wax comes from plants, not chemical labs in Germany..but FK wants to call it a "wax". Never thought of it as an oily product though, when I think "oily wax" I think of...oh I dunno...Souveran or M26 or maybe a Zymol Estate Glaze.
But if people are happy with the results they are getting the more power to them.
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Yeah, that :D
..I just hope we don't get to a point where not claying a car becomes the norm.
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Eh, I'm just advocating *not* doing stuff...any stuff...that doesn't need doing. Sometimes a vehicle needs decontaminated, or polished, or [whatever], sometimes it doesn't. Last time I reLSPed my wife's car I did some spot-claying to remove tar, and the clay didn't remove *any* other contamination from those areas; no need to clay the whole thing IMO.
 
I think one who is a true autopian, takes pride in trying new things and washing and waxing his or her car on the weekends or whatever. I love coatings, but this thread is about me questioning how much they are actually needed for one who has the time, has the right environment. I also stand by my statement that a coating should NOT need any sort of extra work beyond the correct application and curing time. No reload, carpro spotless, cure, vs1, etc,etc. If I didn't know how to polish and apply a coating, or just paid someone to do it, I'd be beyond pissed if I would up with a car full of spots a month after application simply from washing and drying. Reload costs as much or more than most standard sealants and doesn't last any longer and in my findings it was even less than advertised....so what's the REAL difference between the coating and the paint without it? Both need to be taken care of, both WILL scratch both WILL spot, the difference is that you've paid for a coating you still needs to be tended to.
 
This is exactly what scares me with a coating.

boxingfan30 said:
I think one who is a true autopian, takes pride in trying new things and washing and waxing his or her car on the weekends or whatever. I love coatings, but this thread is about me questioning how much they are actually needed for one who has the time, has the right environment. I also stand by my statement that a coating should NOT need any sort of extra work beyond the correct application and curing time. No reload, carpro spotless, cure, vs1, etc,etc. If I didn't know how to polish and apply a coating, or just paid someone to do it, I'd be beyond pissed if I would up with a car full of spots a month after application simply from washing and drying. Reload costs as much or more than most standard sealants and doesn't last any longer and in my findings it was even less than advertised....so what's the REAL difference between the coating and the paint without it? Both need to be taken care of, both WILL scratch both WILL spot, the difference is that you've paid for a coating you still needs to be tended to.
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I think most professionals will agree that a coating is more durable than a wax/sealant. I would prefer the coating take the abuse than the paint. Thats what I boils down to me. My garage queen back in the day would only get Pinnacle Souveran, but it wAs 99% of the time in the garage. For "ordinary" driven cars a coating serves it's purpose. That's how I look at coatings
 
I believe this is a personal preference choice, both have LSP & coatings have their strong points and weaknesses. LSP's came first and science technology pushed forward and coatings with all kinds of different science behind them were born. I ask you to follow the money trail and you will see why coatings are being advertised and being sold.
The Pro versions by some manufactures have strong requirements that the installer must follow and required set minimum prices.

End user coating are as many as the stars in the sky, but manufactures all call them coatings. So what is a coating?
To be honest I think clearcoat is a coating.
With new manufacturer or repacking of coatings under different names, The time they last is is a lab tested guestament by the chemist.
Yes I include the "lifetime" permanent coating that can be polished off into this group too.
Let's face it a chemist made all of these products. So this or that company claims "xyz". I ask what is the Guarantee‎?

Which leads all of us to choose which product may work best to us. I agree most of us in the Autopia's search for the "best" newest favor of the month products and wait for the others in the group for updates as to how the product worked. We in turn give manufactures that listen feedback for tweaking of their product.

I like coatings because it is easier to maintain the every day driver car for me. Yes I give up something to get advantage of easy of up keep. We all want it all and some manufactures say you can have it all but many Autopia's report that is not the case. I wonder why this is the the real world results? I feel some times manufactures rush products to the market place to keep up with customer buying fads. Yes I have been caught up in this series of events. I reflect back on the list of products in the back of the shelf not used in years. I think we all have a few of them.... Oh the LSP I have few favor of the month.LOL
Coating are no different, we try many of them as a Autopia's with mixed results.
 
Detail Impressions said:
I believe this is a personal preference choice, both have LSP & coatings have their strong points and weaknesses. LSP's came first and science technology pushed forward and coatings with all kinds of different science behind them were born. I ask you to follow the money trail and you will see why coatings are being advertised and being sold.
The Pro versions by some manufactures have strong requirements that the installer must follow and required set minimum prices.

End user coating are as many as the stars in the sky, but manufactures all call them coatings. So what is a coating?
To be honest I think clearcoat is a coating.
With new manufacturer or repacking of coatings under different names, The time they last is is a lab tested guestament by the chemist.
Yes I include the "lifetime" permanent coating that can be polished off into this group too.
Let's face it a chemist made all of these products. So this or that company claims "xyz". I ask what is the Guarantee‎?

Which leads all of us to choose which product may work best to us. I agree most of us in the Autopia's search for the "best" newest favor of the month products and wait for the others in the group for updates as to how the product worked. We in turn give manufactures that listen feedback for tweaking of their product.

I like coatings because it is easier to maintain the every day driver car for me. Yes I give up something to get advantage of easy of up keep. We all want it all and some manufactures say you can have it all but many Autopia's report that is not the case. I wonder why this is the the real world results? I feel some times manufactures rush products to the market place to keep up with customer buying fads. Yes I have been caught up in this series of events. I reflect back on the list of products in the back of the shelf not used in years. I think we all have a few of them.... Oh the LSP I have few favor of the month.LOL
Coating are no different, we try many of them as a Autopia's with mixed results.
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all very fair statements, I know that the OC on my car was still there because I tried to put some wax on it and it only stayed there for about a week, the truth was, it just wasn't working any longer as a coating alone. Truth be told, if I really wanted a hard clear coat, I'd take it to the body shop, get the hardest possible clear coat sprayed on, and accept the 1,500 or so dollars it cost and have it thick enough that I could polish to my hearts content. There are some sealants out there that will resist wash and clay marring, that's about all we really can ask for IMHO of course.
 
boxingfan30 said:
all very fair statements, I know that the OC on my car was still there because I tried to put some wax on it and it only stayed there for about a week, the truth was, it just wasn't working any longer as a coating alone. Truth be told, if I really wanted a hard clear coat, I'd take it to the body shop, get the hardest possible clear coat sprayed on, and accept the 1,500 or so dollars it cost and have it thick enough that I could polish to my hearts content. There are some sealants out there that will resist wash and clay marring, that's about all we really can ask for IMHO of course.
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Can one have a body shop simply add clear or do they have to repaint?
 
boxingfan30 said:
I think one who is a true autopian, takes pride in trying new things and washing and waxing his or her car on the weekends or whatever. I love coatings, but this thread is about me questioning how much they are actually needed for one who has the time, has the right environment. I also stand by my statement that a coating should NOT need any sort of extra work beyond the correct application and curing time. No reload, carpro spotless, cure, vs1, etc,etc. If I didn't know how to polish and apply a coating, or just paid someone to do it, I'd be beyond pissed if I would up with a car full of spots a month after application simply from washing and drying. Reload costs as much or more than most standard sealants and doesn't last any longer and in my findings it was even less than advertised....so what's the REAL difference between the coating and the paint without it? Both need to be taken care of, both WILL scratch both WILL spot, the difference is that you've paid for a coating you still needs to be tended to.
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Of course you have to take care of the finish, no matter what you use on it. Did I miss the claim where a product was advertised as such? To me that is like saying my new car only needs an oil change once a year/every 10000 miles but it still needs an oil change and I complain about it.

I assume water spot is what you mean by spots? If you dry your car properly you will not have water spots from washing. If you have a sprinkler hitting your car and you let it etch the paint, that is not the fault of the LSP, anymore than if you let bird poop stay on.

As far as the add on products are concerned, "MOST" coatings are sealants, and they wear away, that is why the limited 'durability" claim. Of course a product like Opti Coat needs none of that - once on the paint, it stays on the paint.
 
boxingfan30 said:
all very fair statements, I know that the OC on my car was still there because I tried to put some wax on it and it only stayed there for about a week, the truth was, it just wasn't working any longer as a coating alone. Truth be told, if I really wanted a hard clear coat, I'd take it to the body shop, get the hardest possible clear coat sprayed on, and accept the 1,500 or so dollars it cost and have it thick enough that I could polish to my hearts content. There are some sealants out there that will resist wash and clay marring, that's about all we really can ask for IMHO of course.
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Can you name them for me?
 
Thomas Dekany said:
Of course you have to take care of the finish, no matter what you use on it. Did I miss the claim where a product was advertised as such? To me that is like saying my new car only needs an oil change once a year/every 10000 miles but it still needs an oil change and I complain about it.

I assume water spot is what you mean by spots? If you dry your car properly you will not have water spots from washing. If you have a sprinkler hitting your car and you let it etch the paint, that is not the fault of the LSP, anymore than if you let bird poop stay on.

As far as the add on products are concerned, "MOST" coatings are sealants, and they wear away, that is why the limited 'durability" claim. Of course a product like Opti Coat needs none of that - once on the paint, it stays on the paint.
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no Thomas, you are seeing things through your authorized dealer glasses right now. OC had spotting problems, my water here has spotting problems. I know how to polish a car, I know how to check the finish and follow instructions. Perhaps when a product says that an IPA wipe down is needed, they should be more specific. If I have cquartz uk on my paint, and it spots, it's now my fault for not buying more products, or putting more reload on it?

this has been an issue to more people than just me btw.
 
boxingfan30 said:
no Thomas, you are seeing things through your authorized dealer glasses right now. OC had spotting problems, my water here has spotting problems. I know how to polish a car, I know how to check the finish and follow instructions. Perhaps when a product says that an IPA wipe down is needed, they should be more specific. If I have cquartz uk on my paint, and it spots, it's now my fault for not buying more products, or putting more reload on it?

this has been an issue to more people than just me btw.
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What do you mean by spotting?

Fyi, I am professional Detailer - I just happen to use OC. And FYI topping ANY "coating" with a wax or sealant is counter productive since doing so you cover up the properties of the coating. But I guess you know that too.

I can only tell you what I have personally experienced. So if you dispute any of that, please provide proof. Coatings need more prep work, a little trickier to apply, but if all that is done properly, the benefits are well worth it.

As far as you being not the only one who had issues with coatings we all know about that. Nothing new. But the small % of the applications that have failed just proves my point.
 
Thomas Dekany said:
So I guess no personal experience? See what I write is my own experience not something I read or heard. But it is all good.
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I have never had it with DG105 nor with power lock, which is slick and most things just slide off the paint. Thank you for reminding us all yet again of your professionalism
 
boxingfan30 said:
I have never had it with DG105 nor with power lock, which is slick and most things just slide off the paint. Thank you for reminding us all yet again of your professionalism
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Instead of questioning my professionalism at least remember what you are replying to. The topic was your claim that there are sealants that prevent marring - what is that have to do with slickness? Yes I am being a pro by providing personal experiences not stuff that I read on line.
 
I do not think any LSP (coating included) can prevent a water spot caused by excessively hard water.

I would hope a good coating would prevent it from etching the actual paint provided it was removed in a reasonable amount of time.
 
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