Zymol Vintage and Royale

J

JJ_

New member
How long are you getting these waxes to last ? Are they lasting a few weeks or a few months ?



John
 
I didn't like Vintage. The durability of it was not very good at all. It was definitely weeks. Maybe five or six on the top end. If durability is what you are looking for, then carnauba waxes are not the way to go about getting it. Even the very very best carnauba waxes aren't going to last that long. Polymer sealants are the way to go for months of durability.
 
Not really I am just interested what these high end waxes are doing longevity wise.



What would you say the reason for buying vintage is over buying royale etc ? really not much information regarding this online.
 
Its not the durability as so much the look. The look of Vintage is incredible for sure. The problem is not many people will actually notice it unless they have an eye for it. Its a wax the people will pay for just because of its name. I charge by the layer with this stuff. if you want to see what it looks like here is a link to my youtube video. I put it on a F430. Its one of them things where Both a rolex and a timex will tell you the time, but some just prefer to wear the Rolex.



 
Barry Theal said:
Its not the durability as so much the look. The look of Vintage is incredible for sure. The problem is not many people will actually notice it unless they have an eye for it. Its a wax the people will pay for just because of its name....Its one of them things where Both a rolex and a timex will tell you the time, but some just prefer to wear the Rolex.
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Yeah, they sound like they're mostly for the prestige and the perception, and mostly purchased by people who have their cars detailed for them. Because of their exclusively in such a small circle, they're probably even more akin to a Patek or a Vacheron-- Vintage and Royal--two "bluebloods" of the world of carnauba wax.
 
Here is my thing though... If a wax isn't going to last any longer than say S100, it isn't going to look any better than it either, then why would you pay that much more for it? I did the math here once and figured you'd have to marry that jar of Vintage for somewhere around 40 years for it to equal the cost of using S100 for the same amount of time. If the results are only going to be marginally better, and by that I'm talking about it looking like a 9 instead of an 8, then why would you pay that kind of premium for it? For most people I think it is just to say they have the most expensive wax on their car. Personally, and for my clients, they'd rather say they have the best wax for what they expect it to do on their car. They want it to look good, protect, and most of them want it to last longer than a month.



Sorry... I'm obviously not going to be asked by Zymol to promote their products, but that is only because I feel they have found a way to dupe people into thinking their product is worth far more than it is. There are a hundred waxes that cost under a hundred bucks that I'd put against any Zymol wax without hesitation. 99% of people won't be able to tell the difference and the 1% left will wonder why it doesn't perform better at that price when compared to others.
 
Just a little more background for you on my experience with Vintage:



An Autopia member sent me his Vintage in a zip loc bag for testing. He posts on the very last page with some of his thoughts about it too. Also, here is another post with an interesting Vintage article in it. Those go waaaay back. In fact, I just threw out the remaining crumbles of that wax 3 weeks ago. I stuffed it in a empty wax jar so I could keep it a little more presentable. Most people said it smelled like crayons and that was how they knew it wasn't one of my normal waxes which usually smell really good. :) I have to say that it did a good job living in a jar for nearly a decade. I could have probably mashed it up and gotten a few more coats out of it, but it really was (and I hate to sound snobby about this) inferior to every other product on the shelf, so I knew I wouldn't ever use it again. I'm sorry Zymol, but that is my honest feeling about it after comparing it to probably ten other paste waxes readily available and waaaaaaaaaay less expensive. Vintage is a great wax to purchase if you have a several hundred bucks you aren't doing anything with and don't like the feeling of papercuts when you wipe your arse with it. Buying $1500 wax that can't compete with $20 wax has to be pretty much the same feeling though.



That fairly subjective review of it is based entirely on my experience with the product several years ago, so no offense intended to anyone who has purchased updated formulas or has used it on cars where it really does make a difference. I don't have a lifestyle where that much money on wax seems like it could ever be worth it, so I'm probably not being entirely objective about it. I didn't get to use it on any Ferraris, but on the several vehicles I did use it on, I was very disappointed. But I am still grateful for the opportunity to have been able to try it and test it and receive an opinion of this product first hand instead of wondering how the other half lives. ;)
 
Looks are subjective and some see differences, sometimes ones different enough , to collect different waxes for different looks. I'll probably play around with some, for the fun more than anything else. I couldn't see much of any true,obvious difference between S100(P21s) and Souveran. I don't mind applying LSPs fairly often, so I typically use most of one for a long time, and then switch to something new. A hobby within a hobby--at a conservative level.In my years of being Autopian, I really haven't used that many LSPs.
 
I've got a few, very few, waxes that I have found work better on some shapes and colors than other. I've found that S100/P21S (I still think they are the same thing) is probably the best 'go to' wax for any shape or color, but there are things that some other waxes do that make them worthy of keeping around. I said it ten years ago and I'll say it again, I love the Pinnacle waxes. Souveran is awesome on black with some flake in it. The XMT 180 wax is also a very very good go to wax on anything that has curves, but isn't a color where Souveran would really make a difference. And Fuzion seems to combine the best of all worlds with durability like a sealant and looks of a paste wax. I would love to be a Dodo Juice expert and have tested all the other waxes that have come out in the past several years, but I just don't have the budget for it and neither do most other people. So I just say to find something that works and then use it often. :) I stole that line from someone that I can't remember, but it is good advice. If you've got the budget to experiment, then by all means do and then post your review on Autopia so the rest of us who wonder can start collecting enough information to form an opinion around. :)
 
I've never been one to buy into the hype of these ridiculously priced waxes. We all know they don't cost anymore money to make then every other wax out there and the look is subjective. You can take a car and apply Vintage on one panel and then apply different waxes/sealants on the other panels. Then take 10 random people to evaluate based on look alone and I guarantee they can't all agree on which looks best, let alone which one costs 1000x more then the other.



Even If I one the lottery tomorrow, I would still refuse to buy one of these waxes and I set my cap at $200 several years ago.





Just my $.02





...or $20 if you buy into the hype :D
 
Bill D said:
Looks are subjective and some see differences, sometimes ones different enough , to collect different waxes for different looks... I couldn't see much of any true,obvious difference between S100(P21s) and Souveran..
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Yeah, and sometime "subjective" gets a bad rap. This particular subject saw a dramatic diff between P21s and Souveran on his Jag (would I notice it on another car? would anybody else see it? Dunno, don't care..). So when somebody like Barry, or wannafbody (where is he these days?!?), or SuperBee364 says how great Vintage is, I believe it. And when Jngrbrdman says he doesn't see it, I believe him too.



Besides the look, something that Vintage enthusiasts rave about is the way (heavily layered, presumably via spit-shining) Vintage sheds dirt. That gets my attention, and if it weren't so labor-intensive I'd probably use it on the S8 and maybe on the Jag too (if I liked how it looked on that car's weird paint). But every time a vintage fan explains the whole multiple wipedown/etc. thing I think that I have better things to do. Now if somebody like Barry were local and detailing my cars for me...well, I'd at least give it a try and see what *I* think.



In all sorts of areas, people tell me I will/won't notice a diff, or a have a preference, or think something is "worth it" and I've learned that when it comes right down to it, only my opinion, based on my first-hand experience, really matters to me. Subjective? Sure, but I'm the subject who matters to me ;)
 
Accumulator said:
I've learned that when it comes right down to it, only my opinion, based on my first-hand experience, really matters to me. Subjective? Sure, but I'm the subject who matters to me ;)
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Perfectly put!!! :bigups :bigups
 
Now I wish I hadn't thrown the stuff out. I would have sent what was left to you so you could try it. I sent several chunks to different people on the forum when I got it so people could see what it was like.



Here's my theory... we value the things more that we paid for and sacrificed for ourselves. If your parents give you a car then it doesn't mean as much as the car you saved your whole life for. By the same token, the guy who pays $1500 bucks for a jar of wax HAS to believe it is awesome because he just shelled out so much money for it. The guy who received it in a zip loc bag can say he doesn't like it and it doesn't hurt his wallet at all. I'm just curious how many guys using these super expensive waxes actually really feel it does a better job than a lower priced one, or if they force themselves to believe it because they paid so much money for it and if it sucked then they'd have to admit they wasted some cash. I dunno... I think our opinions can sometimes be tied to the price and that is what Zymol wants. It cost the most, so it must be the best. ...right? Then by that measure a Ferrari is better than a Jeep. Well, unless you want to take it off road or something like that. ;) I guess 'Best' is as subjective as anything else out there, eh?
 
You just described the essence of the goal of packaging. Decent product or not, there's typically not much way around buying a product based on it. The more the packaging effectively calls out to the consumer, in theory, the consumer is more open to trying it. Great packaging can often reach "epic status". Take Coca-Cola the other day, folks kinds freaked there for a minute when they briefly tweaked the look. Coca-Cola is going to revert back to red pronto after that.



I think any extreme Autopian is going to take great care of their cars' aesthetics, if they were gifted it, found it, or bought it. It's one the things that sets us apart from the typical car owner.
 
I just saw that about the Coke can. Do you read Consumerist.com too? :)



Extreme or not, I think any Autopian would take care of their paint. If people were animals then Autopians would be those fish that get caught the second they see something shiny. lol Anyone who posts more than 20 times on this board has to be considered one of those people who value what they drive. Otherwise they never would have found this place to begin with.
 
I followed it a little bit in my professional circle and it was no surprise to me. I briefly worked for one of their suppliers during one of the last times they tried to go too untraditional with their packaging.



Oh yeah, I have a weakness for shiny :D I just love it when those 20 posts grow to 200, then 2000, then... :D folks get converted to the Autopian way! :chuckle:
 
Jngrbrdman said:
Now I wish I hadn't thrown the stuff out. I would have sent what was left to you so you could try it. I sent several chunks to different people on the forum when I got it so people could see what it was like...
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OH NO.... :grinno: People have offered me samples of it but it's one of those things where I don't want to know what I'm missing. There are all sorts of expensive things I can't live without once I've tried them and I don't need another! But really, I don't want to find that I simply love something that's so much work; bad enough that I won't Souveran my wife's car (she actually notices a diff and simply loves how that particular LSP looks on it) because I don't want to spend the time and effort :o





Here's my theory... we value the things more that we paid for and sacrificed for ourselves. If your parents give you a car then it doesn't mean as much as the car you saved your whole life for. By the same token, the guy who pays $1500 bucks for a jar of wax HAS to believe it is awesome because he just shelled out so much money for it...I think our opinions can sometimes be tied to the price and that is what Zymol wants. It cost the most, so it must be the best. ...right?
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Understood, but I can honestly say that I'm not like that. When I read the book "Predicably Irrational" (same idea and a *great* book on the subject) I was simply astounded that most people really are like that! Lots of "name" products don't do it for me whereas cheaper ones are exactly what I like. But it's not something where I can *predict* what I'll like based on the price so I don't assume that pricey stuff isn't worth it either.



But sure, I bet that a *WHOLE* lot of Zymol's success is based on people who base their opinions on the cost. Sorta like people who don't know from Champagne raving about how great Cristal is, or people wearing certain clothes/shoes because they're expensive even though the stuff looks awful on them.



Then by that measure a Ferrari is better than a Jeep. Well, unless you want to take it off road or something like that. ;) I guess 'Best' is as subjective as anything else out there, eh?
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Well, I think the "best" thing in that case depends on the application, so maybe it's not all *that* subjective :think: But I do get your point about the Ferrari vs. Jeep; like...is my S8 "better" than my Crown Vic? Hey, two big sedans, they oughta be directly comparable, right? And the S8 is clearly "better". But there are cases where the CV is the better tool for the job no matter how "cheap and crappy" it is.



Bill D said:
Decent product or not, there's typically not much way around buying a product based on it. The more the packaging effectively calls out to the consumer, in theory, the consumer is more open to trying it...
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Contrary ol' me...I like the no-frills packaging that AI/FK/Collinite use. Maybe it says "no-nonsense Professional" to me, which I guess is just a different way of getting suckered by the packaging, huh?!? But to use another Champagne analogy, I knee-jerk away from fancy bottles (PJ's flowers, for instance) because I assume I'm paying for that soon-to-be-trash container and it just says "sucker-test!" to me.



Hey, you're a cigar aficionado...what about cigars that come in individual tubes? I can see the functional aspect, but is that a reliable indicator of quality or just a packaging ploy?
 
Hey, I like cigars in tubes. It helps keep them from getting crushed in my glovebox or backpack. (I'm a low class cigar guy obviously. The whole point of the tube is probably completely missed by me other than a form of protection for my cheap $7 smokes. lol)
 
Jngrbrdman- Yeah, I have a plastic tube (forget the name of the thing) that I use for purely protective reasons too. I suppose the "hermetically sealed" aspect of individual containers might have some value, maybe as a substitute for a travel humidor, but eh....it just screams "I'm so special! Waste some money!" to me. Best cigars I've ever had didn't come in some fancy tubes, just regular boxes.
 
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