Zymol Concours vs. Natty's Blue!
- Thread starter percynjpn
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Pennypacker
New member
Mr. $10,000 car wash said that the Zymol wax he uses (I guess the royale stuff again) is actually an enzyme and doesn't technically become a wax until warmed up by rubbing one's hands together with it and applying to the car. I have no idea if this is true, or if so, if it also applies to the "lesser" Zymol waxes as well. This might touch on whether hand application is actually necessary or not.
Wow, just one day and look. Ladies and gentlemen.......you have to try the product(s). Zymol holds up after washing, and in the weather. It lasts for more than one day. It will last for more than one month. Believe me, but do have a look and see for yourself.
Now I almost forgot to talk about one of Zymol's (if not their best) distinguishing attributes. The Zymols (Estate) have an amazing ability of producing ultra sharp reflected images of remote and distant objects, and they seem to have a very wide range in terms of producing rich looking color enhancement. Large phrases......but you will have to do the acid test and compare the Zymol finish in a variety of settings, like sunny clear days, moderately sunny, and overcast days. Many good waxes can produce sheen, but IMO it is the combination of the intensity of sheen, reflection, color sharpness, and depth of shine that marks the Estate Wax line.
Now I almost forgot to talk about one of Zymol's (if not their best) distinguishing attributes. The Zymols (Estate) have an amazing ability of producing ultra sharp reflected images of remote and distant objects, and they seem to have a very wide range in terms of producing rich looking color enhancement. Large phrases......but you will have to do the acid test and compare the Zymol finish in a variety of settings, like sunny clear days, moderately sunny, and overcast days. Many good waxes can produce sheen, but IMO it is the combination of the intensity of sheen, reflection, color sharpness, and depth of shine that marks the Estate Wax line.
Accumulator said:Perhaps "hassle" was the wrong word; I just don't want to be doing that with my hands. I did Souveran that way a few times and it's not something I enjoy. I do about 90% of my waxing by machine anyhow, purely a personal preference, but one I feel quite strongly about. Might change my mind at some point, but I wanna try to figure out alternatives first.
Another question (hey, I'm *still* interested in this stuff) - Once you get the wax on there, how long do you wait until you buff it off. I've quit doing W-O-W-O with Souveran, for example, and I now let it set up like any other LSP. Wondered what the procedure is for the Estate Glazes...
Let me see if I can lend a hand. For the hand painting waxes, I would just follow their directions until you get to a comfort level in spacing out the panels that you're waxing. I always start with half of the hood (or the hood), since that to me is the area that demands the most concentration. It is better to do half of the hood (instead of a 2'-0 x 2'-0 section at a time----you will be waxing all day if you do that). Then after you finish applying the wax, take one of three buffing towels, and "ruff" (rub gently-always) the wax on the first wipe. Take the second cloth, and begin to buff the wax with more confidence. The second wipe will start showing the waxed results. The third wipe with another clean buffing towel or mf will be the one that settles all of the haze, revealing the waxed sheen. I use this procedure on all of the car, and it has been the best way for me.
If you insist on the buffer, then I would probably recommend that you use the HC Zymols (like Japon), because I believe that they can be applied with a foam applicator.
I can't speak for others, but part of my beef with Zymol is the sheer number of offerings they have. More specifically, marque specific waxes seem like *hype*. I drive a 2004 Saab 9-3SS and the thought of paying $46 for 8oz of "Saab Wax" is ludicrous. What kind of Saab paint is it made for? 1986 900 paint? 2002 Viggen Paint? 2004 9-3 Paint? 2005 9-2X Paint? 2006 9-7X Paint? For those out of the loop, currently, the 9-3 is made in Sweden, the 9-2X is a rebadged Impreza/WRX made in Japan, and the 9-7X is a rebadged TrailBlazer made in America. So, what car is the Saab wax designed for? If it's black should I use the Carbon wax? If it's a vintage Saab, should I use the vintage glaze? *HYPE*
(Disclaimer: These are my feelings on the marque waxes, not the rest of their line. Either way, they have too many choices.)
(Disclaimer: These are my feelings on the marque waxes, not the rest of their line. Either way, they have too many choices.)
imported_Bence
New member
Hey, it must be good for the new Cadillac BLS as well, because it is built in Trollhättan... 
Accumulator
Well-known member
lbls1- Sorry, I must've utterly botched up explaining my Q 
Thanks for trying to answer, let's see if I can rephrase it:
Can you apply the Estate Glaze to the whole car and then buff it off?
Next Q: Does the Concours either hide or accentuate marring? Like the way some products (e.g., heavy carnaubas) hide it a little while others (e.g., sealants) make it jump out at you.
Oh, and other than the Estate Glazes, I'd just stick with Souveran for various reasons (some of them subjective). Heh heh, as I'm talking about cars that virtually *never* get used anyhow I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill with the application gripes anyhow. If I ever get the RX-7 to the point where I'm applying a LSP, well, something small like that shouldn't be a huge hassle to do by hand.
Thanks for trying to answer, let's see if I can rephrase it:Can you apply the Estate Glaze to the whole car and then buff it off?
Next Q: Does the Concours either hide or accentuate marring? Like the way some products (e.g., heavy carnaubas) hide it a little while others (e.g., sealants) make it jump out at you.
Oh, and other than the Estate Glazes, I'd just stick with Souveran for various reasons (some of them subjective). Heh heh, as I'm talking about cars that virtually *never* get used anyhow I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill with the application gripes anyhow. If I ever get the RX-7 to the point where I'm applying a LSP, well, something small like that shouldn't be a huge hassle to do by hand.
Mikeyc
TheDetailingHandBook.com
Accumulator said:
You could apply the Estate Glaze to the entire car and then buff off. In fact, I used to do this myself. However, a guy I know once met Chuck Bennett (started Zymol) at an NSX show and was told by Chuck to use W-O-W-O method. I seem to definitely get a much better result with W-O-W-O. Also, as was already mentioned it's best to lightly buff the haze off instead of muscling it off. However, this is true for all waxes as muscling off residue will result in marring.
As far as bare handed application goes, I was a little put off by it at first. It seemed really odd to me. Now, I love it. It's really easy to get a nice thin layer of wax using my bare hands. Not sure I would use this method with many other waxes as many of them have a lot of petroleum products in them. Other waxes I typically apply with a foam applicator.
strat81 said:
I hear this criticism a lot from people who have an issue with Zymol. I'm not sure where this comes from. Zymol is a company trying to make a profit just like any other. So, they're going to do whatever they can to get you to buy their products. Every car care company uses lots of marketing hype. Zymol just takes it a little further.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Mikeyc said:
I know it can be hard to express some of this stuff, but could you elaborate? I'm curious about what (characteristic of the wax) turned out better. I hope I don't sound like I'm putting you Zymol guys on the spot, for some reason I find this all very interesting.
I will chime in on the WOWO. I have not tried any other method besides WOWO, but WOWO is the manufacturers instructions, and is the same for Zymol and Souveran. If you do not WOWO, and the wax dries, it can be harder to remove.
I do not have the containers in front of me, but essentially the directions say apply to a small section, and immediately wipe off -- WOWO.
MikeyC is spot on with his comment about marketing hype with detailing products. I use several Meguires products, and have tried many more. How many sealants, waxes, polishes or is it detailers, do I need! If I am working on many diifferent vehicles, maybe all of them. At CMA, should I go with Blackfire, Pinnacle, Menzerna, Klasse, they all sound good. Part of the fun in this is figuring out what I like.
I do not have the containers in front of me, but essentially the directions say apply to a small section, and immediately wipe off -- WOWO.
MikeyC is spot on with his comment about marketing hype with detailing products. I use several Meguires products, and have tried many more. How many sealants, waxes, polishes or is it detailers, do I need! If I am working on many diifferent vehicles, maybe all of them. At CMA, should I go with Blackfire, Pinnacle, Menzerna, Klasse, they all sound good. Part of the fun in this is figuring out what I like.
Mikeyc
TheDetailingHandBook.com
Accumulator said:
Sorry about that. I always get frustrated when people put up vague posts like that. So, you would think I would know better.
As was already said, if you let an Estate Glaze setup for awhile it is a SERIOUS bear to buff off. I also find that I get a smoother finish with W-O-W-O than if I let the wax setup for a minute. I usually apply to part of a panel and then wipe right off.
What Mikeyc said Accumulator!!!!!! Haha..
Must be getting old...I was just about to ask what is wowo...ok I got it. The most I've covered with my estate glazes I've used so far is a quarter panel plus a door (My car #1 I wager is a tad larger than your 2-seater right Mike??!?) I do not want to take a chance by getting into a situation where I have to add moderate pressure to a panel. There was one crazy guy on another board that said that he let his EGZymols dry, and then took a rotary to it........................................UGGG...do not do that please!!!
Always feel free to ask, because the hand painting does look a tad silly looking at it, but it is effective in covering the panels with the right amount of wax. I use latex gloves when I do mine.....that's just a little technique I add to the methodology.
I am wagering that you may be impressed Accumulator. I am familiar with the pc, but I won't even try to put the EGZymols on the car with one. In general I prefer to wax by hand as a personal preference. Just don't take my word for it; put the Zymols to the test, because you want to see what you are getting for your money. If the Zymols didn't perform for me, you would not see and hear me spending my energy talking about (and defending) their abilities!
Edit: Accumulator, Concours and the majority of the estate wax line will have a tendency of showing your marr marks if you haven't taken them out. The optical clarity of the "white" carnauba wax ingredient has a way of showing up your paint issues. Also, if you try to put the estate waxes on without allowing them to either soften a bit (thus the hands), you may risk the chance of smears or even marred streaks. It has to soften to a spreadable consistency....once it does that then their glazes are harmless. Like most carnaubas, the EGZymols will fill in some very light issues or streaks, but again, if you haven't taken care of the surface with good prep before, you may see more of those issues than you wouldn't want to have seen. Once the EGZymols are well layered............watch out!!!!! You will just have to see what I mean!
Its hard sometimes figuring out how much I want to put on, because EGZymols I feel have the most violent color effect with the lighter stages of layering, but all heck breaks loose when you've taken care of the surface and manage to accumulate 4-9 (yes I like a lot of wax) layers of wax on your clean paint.
Must be getting old...I was just about to ask what is wowo...ok I got it. The most I've covered with my estate glazes I've used so far is a quarter panel plus a door (My car #1 I wager is a tad larger than your 2-seater right Mike??!?) I do not want to take a chance by getting into a situation where I have to add moderate pressure to a panel. There was one crazy guy on another board that said that he let his EGZymols dry, and then took a rotary to it........................................UGGG...do not do that please!!!
Always feel free to ask, because the hand painting does look a tad silly looking at it, but it is effective in covering the panels with the right amount of wax. I use latex gloves when I do mine.....that's just a little technique I add to the methodology.
I am wagering that you may be impressed Accumulator. I am familiar with the pc, but I won't even try to put the EGZymols on the car with one. In general I prefer to wax by hand as a personal preference. Just don't take my word for it; put the Zymols to the test, because you want to see what you are getting for your money. If the Zymols didn't perform for me, you would not see and hear me spending my energy talking about (and defending) their abilities!
Edit: Accumulator, Concours and the majority of the estate wax line will have a tendency of showing your marr marks if you haven't taken them out. The optical clarity of the "white" carnauba wax ingredient has a way of showing up your paint issues. Also, if you try to put the estate waxes on without allowing them to either soften a bit (thus the hands), you may risk the chance of smears or even marred streaks. It has to soften to a spreadable consistency....once it does that then their glazes are harmless. Like most carnaubas, the EGZymols will fill in some very light issues or streaks, but again, if you haven't taken care of the surface with good prep before, you may see more of those issues than you wouldn't want to have seen. Once the EGZymols are well layered............watch out!!!!! You will just have to see what I mean!
Its hard sometimes figuring out how much I want to put on, because EGZymols I feel have the most violent color effect with the lighter stages of layering, but all heck breaks loose when you've taken care of the surface and manage to accumulate 4-9 (yes I like a lot of wax) layers of wax on your clean paint.
Mikeyc
TheDetailingHandBook.com
lbls1 said:
:chuckle: Yeah your car is bigger than my S2000, but a Camaro is not exactly an SUV.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Thanks for all the info guys. Long ~random observations/comments follow:
Yeah, I wondered about that. The only vehicles I'd use such stuff on are the collectibles, which have imperfect (but original) finishes. Can't correct them, the old paint's too thin and I'm not gonna be the guy who required a repaint
With all the (too many ) vehicles we have around here the drivers aren't gonna get such labor-intensive treatment and oddly enough some of those are the vehicles with perfect finishes.
Heh heh, in an alternate reality I'd really like to try the Concours on my S8 but life's too short and hard enough.
Lou- Here's my current position on the W-O-W-O:
I'd heard a lot about various waxes being a bear to remove if allowed to dry. Heard it about Meg's #16. P21S, and even Collinite, but those never caused any problems for me. Still, I always liked how easy it is to do W-O-W-O with Souveran.
I'd used W-O-W-O with Souveran for many, many years. I posted something over at MOL recommending that people use W-O-W-O for the obvious reasons: people say it's a paint to buff off if it dries, W-O-W-O is recommended by the manufacturer, and it'd always worked well for me. Mike Phillips challenged me on the point- he pointed out that I never use W-O-W-O with my other waxes and said I oughta try letting Souveran set up. He said he's experimented with a *lot* of waxes (hey, it's his job) and never had any problems from letting one dry as long as he applied it properly thin.
So...I applied it to some areas on my wife's A8. Let it set up for varying lengths of time up to 90 minutes. In every case it buffed off easily, looked great, and might've even lasted longer than it does when W-O-W-O'ed.
Not saying there's anything *wrong* with W-O-W-O, hey, I have over a decade's evidence that it works great. But it does occur to me that there could reasons other than functionality behind the maker suggesting W-O-W-O, especially if letting it set up results in greater durability.
More of Accumulator's Autopian Heresy: You guys who find it therapeutic/relaxing to detail cars make me feel a zillion years old and very stodgy For me, detailing a car is like sharpening a tool...a chore I have to do as part of proper maintenance. I do find it rewarding, like any other job done well, but it's just not my idea of how to spend my time. And to think I used to really *love* doing this stuff....
lbls1 said:
Yeah, I wondered about that. The only vehicles I'd use such stuff on are the collectibles, which have imperfect (but original) finishes. Can't correct them, the old paint's too thin and I'm not gonna be the guy who required a repaint
With all the (too many
) vehicles we have around here the drivers aren't gonna get such labor-intensive treatment and oddly enough some of those are the vehicles with perfect finishes.Heh heh, in an alternate reality I'd really like to try the Concours on my S8 but life's too short and hard enough.
Lou- Here's my current position on the W-O-W-O:
I'd heard a lot about various waxes being a bear to remove if allowed to dry. Heard it about Meg's #16. P21S, and even Collinite, but those never caused any problems for me. Still, I always liked how easy it is to do W-O-W-O with Souveran.
I'd used W-O-W-O with Souveran for many, many years. I posted something over at MOL recommending that people use W-O-W-O for the obvious reasons: people say it's a paint to buff off if it dries, W-O-W-O is recommended by the manufacturer, and it'd always worked well for me. Mike Phillips challenged me on the point- he pointed out that I never use W-O-W-O with my other waxes and said I oughta try letting Souveran set up. He said he's experimented with a *lot* of waxes (hey, it's his job) and never had any problems from letting one dry as long as he applied it properly thin.
So...I applied it to some areas on my wife's A8. Let it set up for varying lengths of time up to 90 minutes. In every case it buffed off easily, looked great, and might've even lasted longer than it does when W-O-W-O'ed.
Not saying there's anything *wrong* with W-O-W-O, hey, I have over a decade's evidence that it works great. But it does occur to me that there could reasons other than functionality behind the maker suggesting W-O-W-O, especially if letting it set up results in greater durability.
More of Accumulator's Autopian Heresy: You guys who find it therapeutic/relaxing to detail cars make me feel a zillion years old and very stodgy
For me, detailing a car is like sharpening a tool...a chore I have to do as part of proper maintenance. I do find it rewarding, like any other job done well, but it's just not my idea of how to spend my time. And to think I used to really *love* doing this stuff....The old "let wax dry" theory I don't believe has any significant advantage in the waxed result from my personal experience. The important thing is for the wax membrane to be applied and stretched. Remember the oooold Simonize Era and all of that stuff it would put you through? Talk about bear (but in hindsight I think I would've been able to tackle that old time stuff as well with some of my techniques). The finished wax will dry eventually even with the wowo method, because all you are doing with wowo is getting off the haze and excess product. The wax finish is the important (and main) ingredient.
The main point I stress in applying wax is to apply it without inducing excessive pressure on the panels, which could cause marring.
The good thing about this hobby, however, is that there isn't a set in stone method in doing anything. The result is what counts.
The main point I stress in applying wax is to apply it without inducing excessive pressure on the panels, which could cause marring.
The good thing about this hobby, however, is that there isn't a set in stone method in doing anything. The result is what counts.
Accumulator
Well-known member
lbls1 said:
I agree completely. There are differing opinions about the benefits/shortcomings of using W-O-W-O with wax, and I gotta admit that I lack the scientific knowledge base to tell who's right/wrong. So I'm happy to use the empirical approach, where we do what works for *us* (without worrying about what other people believe).
Oh, and yeah, it'd sure be a drag to mar the finish taking off the LSP! I had this happen on soft lacquer when I used the early Cobra MF bonnets for the final buff
Back to square one...BTW, thanks for taking the time to discuss the Zymol specifics with me. You've definitely whetted my appetite.
Heh heh, my mother and her sister convinced me to never even try the Simonize. They said that when Meg's #16 came out in the early '50s it was like a miracle product, so easy to use.
Hmm...just came across this: http://www.chemicalguys.com/product_p/wac_301.htm. It contains the same amount of carnauba wax(white and yellow) as Zymol Concours. What else does Zymol have in Concours that makes it more expensive?
Mitchubishievo
New member
Their oils...I've used that paste, and even though it's nice (I was about to do a Souveran comparo becaseu they seemed IDENTICAL), it is NOT the same look.