z-2+z-5+Blackfire= happy me!

S

samiam513

New member
Today I started thinking how to improve the shine of mym red truck. I have used almost everything on the market but nothing hit the spot. Nothing spectacular.



I loked in my cabinet took all the polymers, and in follow of blkz28's thread about layering bf and Zaino i thought of combining them.



I went to the pharmacy, got some empty pill bottles, and added 2tsp of z-2, z-5, and BF. I shook it up, all looked great. I washed my truck and applied the combo with a foam app. Let dry with finger test.



When i buffed it off with MF all i coudl think was :shocked . It is awesome! Deep, wet, reflective shine! It is awesome! This is the closest I will ever get to perfection. It is just amazing.



I have no pictures right now, but this weekend my bro is bringing back my 35mm. I'll have some then hopefully.



Blkz28conv, Thanks for the help in the Pm's. hope yours turned out as well as mine!
 
No, Thank-you Siamiam513. What a great idea. As you know I did the same thing last night and :shocked. Viewed the car today outside and :shocked :shocked .

You are the MAN!!!:bow



"Step outside the lines sometimes... as long as its legal":xyxthumbs
 
I'm wondering if when the Blackfire breaks down if it will affect the Zaino...I've only heard that Blackfire lasts a much shorter time than Zaino (don't know whether this is true). If they are mixed--the bonds could be broken enough to corrupt the Zaino later? Just a thought. Sounds pretty cool though. Guess we'll see later how it lasts.



eric
 
eboller, that is a good question. blkz28conv and I discussed how these could totally change when mixxed (ex. H2O or NaCl) I fell as though they will last a while. even if they don't, I still apply a coat almost every two days.
 
eboller said:
I'm wondering if when the Blackfire breaks down if it will affect the Zaino...I've only heard that Blackfire lasts a much shorter time than Zaino (don't know whether this is true). If they are mixed--the bonds could be broken enough to corrupt the Zaino later? Just a thought. Sounds pretty cool though. Guess we'll see later how it lasts.



eric
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Isn't chemistry fun. Some reactions strenghtens bonds some reactions weaken. In other words BF to BF bonds maybe weak and Zaino -to-Zaino bonds strong. The question is if the Zaino-to-Blackfire bonds are stronger or weaker or somewhere in between.:nixweiss

Nevertheless, the appearance achieved with blending of the two is better. JMO:cool:
 
samiam513 said:
I went to the pharmacy, got some empty pill bottles, and added 2tsp of z-2, z-5, and BF. I shook it up, all looked great. I washed my truck and applied the combo with a foam app. Let dry with finger test.
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Man that is too cool!:bounce Which BF did you use? The All Finish Paint Protection, or the regular Gloss Enhancing Polish? I'm ordering some BF based on your info:cool:
 
This is very weird, since we know BF is abrasive. I'm getting my Z tomorrow and I have Platinum UPP, so I should yield similar results (maybe). We don't know how similar BF and UPP are.
 
so you guys both mixed Z2 and Z5 together (been done lotsa times) WITH BF in it as well?? Cool..... I might just have to spring for some BF then....





blkZ28conv - got any pics of yours??? (compairison pics would be great) :wavey
 
Shiny Lil Detlr said:
so you guys both mixed Z2 and Z5 together (been done lotsa times) WITH BF in it as well?? Cool..... I might just have to spring for some BF then....





blkZ28conv - got any pics of yours??? (compairison pics would be great) :wavey
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No pictures yet. Need new dig cam. Even so I do not think these subtle changes will be detectable via a pix. Depth is very difficult ,if not impossible to see in two dimensional pixs.

As Samiam513 stated we used the Z2 or Z5 mixed with the BF protectant. Nevertheless, if surface prep is necessary one might want to start with the BF polish than move on to Zaino/BF combination or as I did applied over several months a 50 -70 coat base of Zaino to really augment the clearcoat reflectivity and only recently start working with the BF as a sole topper and thanks to Siamiase513 the mixture of Z5/BF protectant.

Last evening I tried this Z5/BF with ZFX and added 2 more coats to the hood and trunk and one coat to the flanks. No problems whatsoever. Looks great! :D I am receiving my BF gloss enhancing QD today and will compare with Z6. This weekend I will probably do a Z7 wash to see what kind of beading/sheeting occurs, test slickness retention, BF QD performance and retention of appearance.

Next experiment will be to vary the ratio of Zaino/BF to see what the produces the best ( personal taste) appearance.

See what you have started Samiam513. :xyxthumbs :wavey
 
I am thinking of doing the same thing with the ratios. I wanna do one 2:1 bf/zaino and 2:1 z/bf. Then if those don't work out i'll just mix the remains of those combos to have a 1:1.



I am not quite sure which I will like better. Wetter, or more reflective. Which ever I think is the best I am gonig to trty a 3:1 just to see if it gets better. mabey it will :nixweiss



Hopefully my family will stop asking me to put drain pans under my trruck to catch the wet paint when it drips off. :eek:
 
blkZ28Conv said:




I am receiving my BF gloss enhancing QD today and will compare with Z6. This weekend I will probably do a Z7 wash to see what kind of beading/sheeting occurs, test slickness retention, BF QD performance and retention of appearance.

Next experiment will be to vary the ratio of Zaino/BF to see what the produces the best ( personal taste) appearance.

See what you have started Samiam513. :xyxthumbs :wavey
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Man this is great, and yes, do keep us posted on what would be the best to put on top of the mixture, whether it be Z6 or BF QD. I do have a question though - if I washed my car with dawn, to start over, and put Z1 on the car first, would it be OK to put the Z/BF mixture on the car then? Or would it be best to put pure Z2 on it first, wipe that off, and then put the Z/BF mixture on it? I can't believe this stuff...here I am less than 3 weeks from being unemployed - thanks WorldCom:rolleyes: and am actually excited about doing this with my car :cool:
 
DP-Jedi said:




Man this is great, and yes, do keep us posted on what would be the best to put on top of the mixture, whether it be Z6 or BF QD. I do have a question though - if I washed my car with dawn, to start over, and put Z1 on the car first, would it be OK to put the Z/BF mixture on the car then? Or would it be best to put pure Z2 on it first, wipe that off, and then put the Z/BF mixture on it? I can't believe this stuff...here I am less than 3 weeks from being unemployed - thanks WorldCom:rolleyes: and am actually excited about doing this with my car :cool:
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First of all Dave, I'm sorry that the WorldCom situation directly effected your life. :( Best of luck in the future and keep the chin up.



In terms of detailing.... I would create a good foundation. Z1 and Z2 first and allow to cure at least 24 hours. Z6 and either layer several more coats of Z2 (1/day w/o ZFX) or go straight to the Z2/BF combo. It is well established that Zaino is very durable. So multiply coats can only be beneficial for protection of the paint's finish. Also the more Z2 layers you have the glossier it will become. The combo in my case is not for longevity of protection, but to give me the appearance I desire... Zaino's high gloss and Blackfire's wetness and depth.

This is an ever evolving experiment so there are not rules to really follow except normal car detailing doctrine ( soft cotton towels, MF's, etc,etc.). I think it is extremely important to at least follow the Zaino procedure ( dawn, SMR, clay, Z7,Z1(x1) ,Z2, and Z6) for the first few coats before deviating to the combo.

:wavey
 
blkZ28Conv said:




First of all Dave, I'm sorry that the WorldCom situation directly effected your life. :( Best of luck in the future and keep the chin up.
Click to expand...



Thanks man, I appreciate that:xyxthumbs



Dave
 
....but the simple science doesn't add up.



Mixing Blackfire and Platinum (same difference) with Zaino is like mixing oil and water. Or more acurately, like mixing silicone and polymer. The silicone will not allow Zaino to bond. Hence, NO durability. Also, there are abrasives in Platinum/Blackfire so you will be removing Zaino with repeated applications. The shine you get is different because you are getting a tinted shine rather than an optically clear shine. If that's what you desire, cool.



Silicone is a wonderful shine-inducer. It looks great! It's rich, deep and glossy. It's also quite temporary and bonds with practically nothing. It's a key ingredient in many popular carnubas.



My point is this. If you want the gloss and durability of a polymer like Zaino don't ruin it by breaking it down.



If you want the carnuba-like look that is achieved with Platinum/Blackfire stick with that. A mix of Zaino is completely psychological in benefit.



If you want to mix things stick with peanut butter and jelly!:D
 
i don't undertand why some say that BF has abrasives in it. the manufacturers publications state that they are non-abrasive. that is why i bought it. are they lying?
 
I can not remember if it was here that i read this, but as I understand it many products say they have no abrasives because many people are afraid of abrasives. They think of severe compounds when you say abrasive.







:nixweiss
 
Zaino Polymer



blkz28conv's statement.



http://www.autopia.ws/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13746&highlight=zaino+polymer



brokerbh's statement



http://www.autopia.ws/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13320&highlight=zaino+polymer



blkz's statement verified by alboston



http://www.autopia.ws/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13355&highlight=zaino+polymer





Blackfire Polymer



last word in first sentance.



http://www.properautocare.com/blacallfinpa.html



I now feel 110% safe saying both are polymers. The onyl two test (to my knowlege) of this have been done by blkz28 and I. We didn't use platinum. Only Zaino and Blackfire.



Sorry if that seemed harsh in any way. Didn't want it to come across like that. just wanted to back myself up.



Now I see what you are saying about Justin TRW. If platinum is infact a silicone ( I have no clue if it is becasue I don't use it) then what you say adds up. you can't make oil and water mix.
 
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