What's the Toughest protection against swirl marks?

S

st7677

New member
Hi,

I am writing this from India, the climate here is hot and dusty, and that creates nightmares in maintaining my car.



Bought a Hebanaro Red color Honda last year. The car is a daily driver, is parked outside under a tree. The environment here is very hot and dusty and requires daily cleaning of the car. Unfortunately the car cleaner cleans around 5-6 cars with a bucket of dirty water/cloth. These tough conditions have left the paint to be heavily abused and full of swirl marks / spider webs.

:sadpace:



I have been reading posts on Autopia for a while now but I am very confused on what products to choose. Unfortunately most products discussed here are not available here. So I will have to select the process and required products and import them from US.



There are not many knowledgeable detailers around, so I am left on my own for a DIY. Hence need help from fellow Autopians...



I need to

1. Get rid of the swirl marks, lots of them...



2. Put the toughest and most durable protection available so that environment elements are handled and the swirl marks are resisted/delayed...



3. Finish the surface so that I can get that wet, deep, rich look...



And I need to do all this by hand. Please advice... :secret
 
I never saw how you were going to handle the swirls. Whether its going to be by PC, UDM, Flex, Rotary.



Either way, I'd use Menzerna Super Intensive Polish for the heavy stuff, and then Menzerna po85rd for the lighter stuff.



After removing all the swirls you want durable protection. I would recommend something by Collinite. Like 845 or 476s. I honestly also like Zaino 5. Lasts a good while and gives amazing looks. But your best bet would be the Collinite.



It's going to be hard to get A LOT of durability and a wet/deep look out of the same product. I think Zaino does that pretty damn well. Collinite will protect longer but lack that deep/wet look...



Good luck!
 
Woa!!! what a wonderful forum, So many responses in such a short time :)

Thanks to all of you!



Originally Posted by gmblack3a

Proper washing is your best protection against swirl marks.
Click to expand...



Yeah, I understand after going thru the forum that proper washing is the key. I am going to either change the washer or find out time to do it myself.



But before that I need to restore my finish, so I need to

1. Get rid of the swirl marks, lots of them...



2. Put the toughest and most durable protection available so that environment elements are handled and the swirl marks are resisted/delayed...



3. Finish the surface so that I can get that wet, deep, rich look...



Since I do not have option to try out mutiple products, what are the best products that I can import for this?
 
Well to get rid of the swirl marks you are going to need a PC/UDM/Flex and and abrasive polishes, probably 2 (cutting polish and finishing polish).



Most durable protection would be Collinite 845 or 476s. It's looks aren't great, but you could throw down a glaze (Danse Wet Glaze, but IDK if he ships to India) and then put the Collinite over that.
 
st7677- Welcome to Autopia!



For the polish, *especially* if you're working by hand (no machine), I'd recommend 1Z brand Paint Polish. It's user-friendly and effective as is my absolute #1 choice for newbies (and I use it myself even though I have Menzerna/Hi-Temp/3M/etc. on the shelf).



For the wax, my (equally emphatic) recommendation is Collinite, either their 845 Insulator Wax or their 476S paste (my preference; the 885 paste is the same stuff in a larger can).



The Collinite is tough, good protection against bird bombs/etc. It lasts a long time and fills minor imperfections. And perhaps most importantly it sheds dirt easily so there's less chance of marring during the wash.



No LSP (Last Step Product, i.e., "wax") is gonna really protect against marring/swirls. The abrasives that scratch the paint are too tough for wax/sealant to resist. I've only had *one* instance that I can recall where the marring didn't penetrate the LSP...and that's in over 30 years of doing this stuff.



I've recommended the 1Z/Collinite combo countless times and I've never had any negative feedback. I have it on one of my vehicles and it looks great. How's that for a hard-sell ;)



Oh, and there's no need for a glaze with 1Z polishes, they leave glaze-like stuff behind on their own.
 
Collinite #845 for protection.



I just laid down 3 coats in 3 days on my daily driver. You can feel the extra coat of protection,

plus it has a blazing look...
 
I was thinking of manually filling the swirl marks with a filler like

Autoglym Super Resin Polish and add a protective sealant over it.

http://autopia.org/forum/hall-fame/77859-test-swirl-removal-hand.html





One challenge here is that it's pretty hot and dusty so will the wax tend to melt/break, attract dirt, and be difficult to clean?



I used carnuba based turtle wax for some time but results were very short lived - a week to 10 days!!!



I have been reading up on multiple products, how are following products rated on Durability (in hot environment), Protection, Show (on a hebanaro red color), and Clean-ability (the more it attracts dust, the quicker the swirl marks will return)



Zaino

Collinite

Glare

Matrix Micro Coating - Hypergloss & Hyperseal
 
845 recommender here as well. I have 2 coats on my 350Z, and it beads like crazy! and does shed dirt very well during a mild wash, or even a ONR rinseless wash.
 
st7677 said:
I was thinking of manually filling the swirl marks with a filler like

Autoglym Super Resin Polish and add a protective sealant over it...
Click to expand...



I'm a big fan of the SRP, and using it under Collinite is something I used to do on almost all the friends/family quickie details I did. It's a viable option but since I tried the 1Z I haven't used the SRP very often. Guess I'm just in favor of doing more mechanical/abrasive (real) correction via the 1Z. IME the SRP doesn't *really* hide all that much in real life, and mild marring that *would* be hidden isn't all that hard to remove, even by hand, with the 1Z.



One challenge here is that it's pretty hot and dusty so will the wax tend to melt/break, attract dirt, and be difficult to clean?



I used carnuba based turtle wax for some time but results were very short lived - a week to 10 days!!!



I have been reading up on multiple products..
Click to expand...



Of the suff you've mentioned, I've only used the Collinite. It *WILL* hold up fine in hot/etc. conditions. After polishing my Blazer (with 1Z ;) ) I applied one coat of Collinite 845 and then four coats of 476S. That was still beading great eight (yeah, eight) months later, after a very tough winter. Collinite sheds dirts incredibly well and *IME* protects better against environmental hazards (birds, etc.) than sealants.



Used over SRP or 1Z (the 1Z will come out better, but OK, I'll quit the hard-sell) you won't be dissatisfied with the Collinite. And it'll hide any little flaws a *LOT* better than any sealant will. IMO sealants only look good over a basically perfect finish and I just can't imagine somebody getting a vehicle good enough for Zaino without using a polisher (and even then *keeping* it perfect is a mighty tall order). I use sealants on two of our vehicles, and getting/keeping those utterly marring-free takes some doing.
 
Here in Cyprus we have similar climate conditions. Very hot and a lot of dust,Because of the dust i have to wash my car every 2 days to keep it clean.As i have been told,Honda paint is very soft so it is too easy even by hand washing(wool mitt for wash and microfiber towels for drying ) to create light swirl marks.I also tried for months different methods and products by hand without having the best possible results (maybe it was my bad technique).I was afraid to use a polishing machine until i bought UDM.I don't know if i get the best possible results but i think that the difference is huge.you can see some picture of my car on the Autopia Car Detailing Forum > DETAILING & FINISH CARE

Professional Detailers-opinion needed thread,and see the results.I also don't know what i have to do to avoid the swirls and also because of polishing to often with different polishes i don't know what is the level of clear coat.Some professionals told me to wash it every 2 weeks(i can't see my car dirty for so long period) and use an extremely light polish,just not to remove too much paint,or using a sealant to hide them and polishing it every six months. I hope that will help a little bit and if you find the way to avoid them and keep your car clean at the same time,please let me now : )
 
st7677 said:
But before that I need to restore my finish, so I need to

1. Get rid of the swirl marks, lots of them...



2. Put the toughest and most durable protection available so that environment elements are handled and the swirl marks are resisted/delayed...



3. Finish the surface so that I can get that wet, deep, rich look...



Since I do not have option to try out mutiple products, what are the best products that I can import for this?
Click to expand...



st7677, I just came across something I think may be of interest to you. You mentioned the thread entitled "Test - Swirl Removal By Hand" by member Dave KG here on Autopia. The "same" thread appears on Detailing World - that's Dave KG's "home forum". Anyhow Dave just responded with a post that mentions a product called Bilt-Hamber Auto Balm. I think this *may* be just what you're looking for. Here's the link to the DW thread and the Bilt-Hamber website in the UK.



** Swirl Removal By Hand - Test ** - Page 8 - Detailing World



Bilt-Hamber Laboratories - Polish and Wax - Auto-balm



Good luck and, if you decide to go this route, don't forget to share your experience here on Autopia! :)
 
It's so confusing to decide on the LSP, the more you read the more you get confused ;)



Now there is a new product in evaluation list - Ultima PGP...
 
Thinking of going for a machine polishing job (to remove the swirls) at a paint shop and then maintain it by hand with



1. Ultima Paint Prep Plus

2. Ultima Paint Gaurd Plus

3. topped with Collinite 436s/885



Fire the car cleaner and start cleaning the car myself with Sonus cleaning kit containing Sonus Shampoo, Wunder Mitt & Drying Towels.
 
I have two Hondas, and agree that they are very tough to keep swirl-free, even in much easier situations than yours. For example, while I like ONR and must use it because of our current drought situation, I still get some marring from using it (and after trying all sorts of techniques).



Don't stress too much about what products to use. The 1Z/Collinite is endorsed by many great folks on this board. I personally have experience with the Zaino and Ultima lines, as well as Duragloss (yes, there is a pattern there!). You will be dealing with fantastic products with any of these three lines.



Compared to Ultima (or any wo/walk away product), Zaino Z2 or Z5 pro have a higher solids content. You also have two levels of correction available in the Zaino line, with the Z-PC offering more correction than the Z-AIO, and the Z-AIO probably being about the equivalent of the Ultima PPP in cleaning and correcting power.



Bottom line: see what is available at the best cost to you, or what strikes your fancy, and with any of these, you'll be happy. There are too many variables in personal use and taste to say that any one of these is "The Best." They are all really excellent.
 
st7677- One thing to consider when chosing an LSP is concealing ability. No, I'm not advocating having a marred-up car with thick glazes/etc. hiding the worst of it, but rather pointing out that sealants are utterly unforgiving when it comes to showing flaws. Carnaubas (especially "heavy carnaubas" like Collinite) fill in the little stuff.



I'm very, very good at washing without marring (if I do say so myself :o ), don't have to polish for years on end.... but I only use sealants on two of our vehicles.
 
Try to use the lambswool wash mitt and the two buckets method and always rinse your car without spraying the water(directly from the hose).with that way you will not have a lot of water to wipe,and also the water will not dry on your car so you will not have to push it hard to clean.Wipe it with the Blue Pearl Drying towel.i am using it and i am very excited with the results.this way will not allow the swirls shown up easily.
 
Using quartz based *glass* coatings hold up quite well, beacuse they are as hard as the dust particles (MOHS 7).



They need to be applied in a very clean environment. Gtechniq C1 and G'zox Armor GlazCoat works great, but I have only the former.



I have to agree with the Collinite comments, but I'd include another heavy carnauba (multi-layered), the Meguiar's #16, or alternatively Finish Kare's 1000P Hi-Temp paste wax, which is technically rather a sealant.
 
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