What to use after SMR??

Nick T. said:
You’ve just taken up another day of my time Edwin! Now I’m forced to experiment with the sequencing of IHG and GEPC. Enquiring minds must seek the truth!



LOL :D



Nick,

Please post your results. Sorry for triggering your "seek the truth" gene but some reason I believe you love this type of endeavor.:xyxthumbs





Your last posted experiment cleared up and verified some of my empirical findings. I would love to see your controlled results on IHG and GEPC sequencing.

I still believe detailing is an art more so than a science, but it is great when the two specialities concur.:xyxthumbs





Where else on the Net can one find such interesting discussions and experiences concerning automotive detailing? :cool:
 
blkZ28Conv said:
I total agree with Nick T's assessment and experiment. Really nice job Nick :xyxthumbs You are a brave man - self-induced marring :bow
What he said! :bow This is a great test and pretty consistent with what others have reported in various, spread-out posts too.



This reinforces the ideas that:



1) IHG is pretty much all fillers and doesn't have any abrasive qualities. (As if DETAILKING's abrasion test wasn't enough. ;))



2) GEPC really does act as an additional final polishing step and actually further refines the paint rather than just doing filling. :cool:



3) Glazing (or using stuff like GEPC containing glaze) after SMR is really a good idea for carnauba wax users. The last few times I had used SMR I had not noticed a whole lot of filling action either.
 
blkZ28Conv- Yes, I see why you prefer the VM-IHG-GEPC order. I too think that the "final" layer of GEPC would be more conducive to the bonding of subsequent sealants/waxes. I'm guessing that if SMR didn't remove the IHG's fillers in Nick T.'s test, then the GEPC wouldn't do it either.



Nick T.- Great test. You addressed my primary concern: whether or not the fillers would remain after using an additional product. I now look forward to YOUR IHG-GEPC sequencing test!



You guys really great :xyxthumbs .
 
if SMR didn't remove the IHG's fillers in Nick T.'s test
re: my earlier post - I must not have been very clear earlier; I did not test SMR's abiility to remove any fillers from GEPC of IHG.



Since the glazes are much softer than the paint, I don't think that it would take much rubbing with SMR to clear off the filling of the glazes.
 
Nick T. - OK, I'm confused :o Long-winded rehash follows:



After the testing I rounded the IHG scratch using SMR, then spritzed the test area with a car shampoo/water solution and wiped it dry, then repeated with a QD. Very little, if any, of the filler was removed



I read the above to mean that the filler was still there after the SMR+shampoo/water+QD. I was surprised the SMR didn't remove the fillers.



Since the glazes are much softer than the paint, I don't think that it would take much rubbing with SMR to clear off the filling of the glazes.



That is what I had figured, hence my confusion.



UHM...let me throw the specific question/concern right out there:



If I put VM on first it'll lightly abrade the surface, fill the valleys, and bond with the paint. If I put IHG on top of the VM there might me some MINOR degrading of the VM due to the solvents in the IHG, but I don't expect this to be a problem. The IHG will fill in the valleys some more. BUT..if I put GEPC on top of the IHG/VM combo, why wouldn't the GEPC "clean" the previously applied fillers and oils off the paint?



We're talking about "layering cleaners". While I myself DO believe you can do this with products such as AIO and Autoglym's SRP (by varying the application method), I'm looking for advice/opinions on doing this with glazes. blkZ28Conv's experience leads me to believe you CAN do it, I'm just curious if there are any already-known techniques that work better/worse than others. For instance, using gradually less-aggressive application methods (terry to foam, firm to light, etc.). Just trying to avoid wasting time/product to no good effect.
 
After SMR its a wash with Pinnacle body shampoo, and then a coat of Final Polish (car polishes inc) and then a coat of what has to be my favorite carnauba, American Shine
 
Originally posted by Nick T. and quoted by Accumulator

After the testing I rounded the IHG scratch using SMR, then spritzed the test area with a car shampoo/water solution and wiped it dry, then repeated with a QD. Very little, if any, of the filler was removed.
Sorry to have been misleading. That last sentence should have been: "Very little, if any, of the filler was removed by the wash solution or QD from the GEPC scratch."



Following somebody’s advice I started by using IHG followed by GEPC, but after experimenting found that GEPC is mildly abrasive while IHG is not abrasive, so I switched my sequence awhile back.



I’ve not played with Vanilla Moose, so all I can say is that the best way to find out what works it to experiment on a small area and see for yourself what works - - and then post your findings on the forum.
 
THIS THREAD IS GETTING PRETTY RIDICULOUS!!



My head is really starting to hurt.



Give me a break! If you use an SMR or Paint cleaner with PROPER TECHNIQUE, you don't need to deal with all the specifics of what will fill what and what will remove what fillers and whether or not a shampoo will remove the oils but not the fillers!



We're not talking recombinant DNA synthesis.....leave all the sequencing analysis and theorizing out of auto appearance products already! Remember, what might work in theory does NOT = what works in practice. Focus on proper technique and it's amazing how straightforward detailing really is!



::::;taking a deep breath:::::apologizing to Nick, BlkZ, & Accumulator:::::::



/Rant
 
Scottwax said:
I've used both S100 SEC and Vanilla Moose and I prefer Vanilla Moose...which, after talking to Mr. Glass, I have found will protect the paint. It does have protective properties. No wonder it leaves the paint so slick and smooth! You don't have to top it unless you want to!



Is a better product. I actually canceled an order of s100 GEPC for the Nilla Moose.
 
One of the reason why I love this forum is the analysizing of differing, products, techniques and reasons behind using such. This exchange of ideas that deals with this hobby (detailing), I find really enjoyable and aids in keeping this endeavor interesting.:wavey



Yes, your own personal results are the most important end-point but it is fun to also view detailing from someones else angle and maybe discover something that will bring us closer to that seemingly unobtainable goal of the "perfect finish". :xyxthumbs





Sorry about the headache;)
 
I can see what you're saying asjk07 and you're actually right ;) but I'm finding this thread fascinating. I think the real value of the experimentation and analysis in this thread is not so much to find the best way to hide swirls and scratches, but instead to find the best way of using products and seeing how they interact. :cool:



It was very revealing about which products fill, which ones polish, and how much of each, which I found to be really helpful and interesting info. One of my big philosophies about detailing is to know what products do and what they contain - this thread is right up my alley! :D Like blkZ28Conv said, it only helps educate us in the pursuit of the ultimate finish.



Between this and the thread about letting Souveran/P21S haze over (link ), it's terrific to see this kind of debate and experimentation at Autopia again.
 
4DSC said:


Between this and the thread about letting Souveran/P21S haze over (link ), it's terrific to see this kind of debate and experimentation at Autopia again.



I totally agree 4DSC.

I use to get headaches also from all the technical information , abbreviations and different detailing experiences that was presented here at Autopia. With my expanded detailing base I am enjoying this hobby more today than ever. Why? From all the help and info from Autopians. I am receiving results that are above the normal "clean" vehicles. Not just because of elite products usage ( which there are many $$ ;))but from from the proper techniques learned and the camaraderie here.

:xyxthumbs
 
asjk07 said:
THIS THREAD IS GETTING PRETTY RIDICULOUS!!

If you use an SMR or Paint cleaner with PROPER TECHNIQUE, you don't need to deal with all the specifics of what will fill what and what will remove what fillers and whether or not a shampoo will remove the oils but not the fillers!

:::::apologizing to Nick, BlkZ, & Accumulator:::::::

/Rant
<IMG SRC=http://members.roadfly.com/ntaylor/question.gif> How does one determine the proper technique(s) without knowing what a product will do?

I enjoy reading/hearing about the experiences of others <IMG SRC=http://members.roadfly.com/ntaylor/joy-jump.gif>, but it would make me very <IMG SRC=http://members.roadfly.com/ntaylor/nervous.gif> to just follow their examples without my own experimenting.

No apologies needed! <IMG SRC=http://members.roadfly.com/ntaylor/wink2.gif wink>
 
Nick T. said:
How does one determine the proper technique(s) without knowing what a product will do?



I'm not saying information sharing is bad.



BlkZ28 sharing the thing about letting Souveran haze was a FANTASTIC post. That is an example of an experience he shared, which IMO is great. However, what I see a lot of here in this thread is just theorizing and speculation (not ALL, just seems to be the predominant theme here) and that is not going to bring us any closer to determining the proper technique. That's what's getting to me.



In any even, we can just agree to disagree.......
 
This morning as I was installing X-Pel lamp covering on my Z3 I noticed several vertical 4� scratches on my bumper. <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/ugh.gif ugh> When finished with the X-Pel I broke out the SMR, GEPC, IHG, and the cotton balls to deal with the marring.



The first thing that I noticed was that the SMR left some hazing, and I’d never had this happen before. Then I remembered that the top two coats on the car had been BF2. <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/idea.gif> This calls for more experimenting in the next few days.



The second thing I observed was that the SMR wasn’t making enough progress, so I decided to use my untried bottle of Meguiar’s #2 Fine-Cut Cleaner. Great results! <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/thumbs-up.gif> Broke out the also untried #7 Show Car Glaze. More great results! <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/thumbs-up.gif> M#2 & M#7 may very well replace SMR, GEPC, and IHG as my primary weapons!



In just two days blkZ28Conv and my work today have given me several days worth of experimenting do do!! <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/bounce.gif>
 
asjk07 said:
THIS THREAD IS GETTING PRETTY RIDICULOUS!!



My head is really starting to hurt.



Give me a break! If you use an SMR or Paint cleaner with PROPER TECHNIQUE, you don't need to deal with all the specifics of what will fill what and what will remove what fillers and whether or not a shampoo will remove the oils but not the fillers!



We're not talking recombinant DNA synthesis.....leave all the sequencing analysis and theorizing out of auto appearance products already! Remember, what might work in theory does NOT = what works in practice. Focus on proper technique and it's amazing how straightforward detailing really is!



::::;taking a deep breath:::::apologizing to Nick, BlkZ, & Accumulator:::::::



/Rant



I totally agree with you! While it is good to know what products do, sometimes they are analyzed beyond belief.
 
Nagchampa said:
I totally agree with you! While it is good to know what products do, sometimes they are analyzed beyond belief.



My sincere apologies. I did go off in a targent. :o

Unfortunately, somtimes what one does for a vocation ( medical sciences) crosses over into one's advocation (detailing).:nixweiss



I have always asked WHY. Be it for a new medication, any malfunction of the human body or new detailing technique. Asking why educates, opens up new horizons and sometimes leads to new discoveries.:xyxthumbs
 
Nick T.- Thanks for clarifying. We'll see what happens when I get the XJS out of hibernation and start glazing.



asjk07- On 99% of the cars I've owned, I wouldn't care about this so much. BUT..the '85 XJS is my baby. I'll have it until the day I die. It has had TERRIBLE paint since new- deep scratches (almost to primer), every kind of imperfection possible, etc. I felt like I was "saving" it when I bought it, it looked SO abused sitting in that showroom. Eighteen years later, it really does look better than it did when new, but that's still not saying much. I'm trying to keep it as original/time-capsule as possible, but over the years my (straightforward technique) attempts at fixing its paint problems have left me with VERY thin paint that still looks awful by my standards. I want to make any improvement possible as GENTLY as possible. I can't just work it with SMR until it doesn't need a glaze, I'd run out of paint. It's an old-single-stage-paint thing, perhaps sorta unique to my situation.



I really don't mean to sound contentious, especially as I feel quite strongly about keeping Autopia a pleasant place to be, but "sequencing analysis" is, to me, a valid and interesting topic. If it doesn't turn your crank, ignore the thread. And not to turn this into a philosophical/epistemological argument, but IMO, if a theory doesn't work in practice, then it's NOT a very good theory. I'm gonna climb back down from my soapbox/bully pulpit now :o , hope I didn't come across like an argumentative jerk. (Visions of moderators preparing to lock the thread...)



asjk07- MY turn for a deep breath! We're :cool: ; everything's :cool:
 
Accumulator said:
I really don't mean to sound contentious, especially as I feel quite strongly about keeping Autopia a pleasant place to be, but "sequencing analysis" is, to me, a valid and interesting topic. If it doesn't turn your crank, ignore the thread. And not to turn this into a philosophical/epistemological argument, but IMO, if a theory doesn't work in practice, then it's NOT a very good theory. I'm gonna climb back down from my soapbox/bully pulpit now :o , hope I didn't come across like an argumentative jerk. (Visions of moderators preparing to lock the thread...)



asjk07- MY turn for a deep breath! We're :cool: ; everything's :cool:



Touche! Good points... :cool:



My compliments to BlkZ & NickT as well.
 
Guys, this is a very interesting thread. Thanks for the excellent work. I completely disagree that this sort of discussion is off-base. It's perfectly relevent. The forum is called Autopia University. University is where people ask questions and debate about the answers. In fact, I was going to post the very same question myself.



(Sorry for the rant, but where the heck else can people ask these questions if not here?)



Anway, I have some pretty bad swirl marks on the hood of my car (left by the previous owner) and I was planning to use SMR to remove them. If I can't remove them that way, I plan to take it into a detailing shop to get it done.



Based on the opinions on this forum, I've decided to try P21S Carnuba wax. I understand that P21S recommends using GEPC prior to their wax. Does that justify using the SMR IHG GEPC or should I use IHG last?



Has anyone asked P21S this question? If not, I'll send them an email.



FYI, for what it's worth, Larry at Carcare Specialties Online said that the oils in GEPC make a good base for the wax.



Thanks again.
 
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