seeing that the surbufs and microfiber pads have changed paint correction among other products as well, what do you think the future holds and what kind of products do you think will come around for the DA to advance paint correction even more? also, what products would you like to see at some point or time?
what are your thoughts on the future of the DA?
- Thread starter BigAl3
- Start date
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
I honestly think the next big innovation for DAs will be advances in the tools themselves, as opposed to more pads and abrasives. Better ergonomics, more power, better vibration dampening for operator safety and reduction of fatigue, overall build quality and durabiliity/reliabilty improvements, etc.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Only thing I would add to the above post would be a larger 'offset'
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
Shiny Lil Detlr said:
The question is how much and how many will pay for a better unit.
For example, if Flex dropped the forced rotation feature from the DA, I doubt the price will not drop much. The cost to engineer (design, tool, etc) a new machine is not cheap so unless there was a ready market (detailing market is probably not that big in the grand scheme). It seems like the current machines are all fairly similar and mostly coming out of China so in the end they would need to invest the time. So, would the market pay say $250 for a better non-forced DA? Sure, they will sell plenty but given how cheap some buyers are, the other units will continue to sell.
However, you would think some PC makerss would spend some extra money to get a more reliable machine. They must be getting a lot of warranty returns. Buried in the cost is the warranty expense in just getting all the returns back, reconditioning them, and reselling them through other channels. This cost can really hurt if not covered. I cannot see how some units are profitable at all unless they are paying say $45 to $50 (direct from China) that would sell for over $100.
Accumulator
Well-known member
I'll be pleasantly surprised if any makers are willing to pony up for much more R&D. I just don't see the motivation/payoff.
Also, some of the latest "updates" seem less than stellar (e.g., the PCXP...ask Barry what he thinks of that unit
).
Also, some of the latest "updates" seem less than stellar (e.g., the PCXP...ask Barry what he thinks of that unit
).
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
Bunky said:
Well, there are a few different factors in play here. The detailing market -- that being the market of enthusiasts and "well educated/up to date" professionals -- may not be that big right now, but other segments of the automotive reconditioning and refinish market are increasingly becoming aware of the latest DA-centric technologies and the advantages they can provide (better and longer-lasting results, more user-friendly/safer, less chance for rework, more cost effective in many cases). The biggest barrier to entry is that for the initial equipment cost you're getting a machine that isn't quite as bulletproof as a DeWalt or Makita rotary, and can be an issue for some workers when it comes to vibration and resulting fatigue. If those issues were addressed effectively, I bet you'd see a lot more widespread adoption of the tools and ancillary products, growing the size of the market substantially.
That's probably a pretty accurate cost assessment; and while they would still have to cover R&D/production costs by reducing the number of warranty returns they could afford to produce a better machine without significantly hiking the price to the consumer. Even if they did have to increase the price, look at the prices people commonly pay to get one of the "bulletproof" rotaries -- if they could get a DA that would stand up to the same abuse AND take advantage of the other advantages, I bet they'd do it in a heartbeat. From a long-term ROI perspective there is a strong business case for it IMHO.
Accumulator said:Also, some of the latest "updates" seem less than stellar (e.g., the PCXP...ask Barry what he thinks of that unit
Barry is actually a perfect example of the reason a more industrial-grade DA is needed. He's got several machines being used for high volume work and ends up wearing them out in a hurry (some faster than others). On the other hand, many high volume shops use rotary polishers and have them last for years and years. Were there a DA on the market with that kind of longevity and dependability, it would make switching teams very easy to do while retaining peace of mind. Not all volume shops can afford to keep a bunch of spare tools on hand, and won't want to take a chance by relying on equipment that could fail on them at any time.
JohnKleven
New member
I would like to see more high quality machines. IMHO the cyclo is the best built but doesn't offer the best correction. The Flex offers good correction but sub par build quality. If DeWalt would build a powerful da with the build quality andvweight of their rotary it could be a great tool.
Junebug
JAFO
I world like to see somebody make 4" MF pads for the Cyclo. Why no one does is a mystery to me, and not just the Cyclo, am I crazy but didn't we use to use 4" pads on the PC too?! Now it's 3 inch and they want to sell you a special...never mind
Junebug
JAFO
After I posted about the 4" MF pads, I decided to make my own out of the 5.5" pads I have from Megs. I figure with only getting a couple cars out of them before they come apart, what have I got to lose.
Dan
Well-known member
I see more changes in pads and compounds than I do with the machines themselves. The DA is going to go through more evolutionary changes. Perhaps someone will come out with an ultrasonic one.
Pads wise, I can see soft foam sanding and cutting pads that only need a water based lubricant. The cutting is all done by the pad, which is disposable. No pad cleaning required.
Hopefully someone can come up with an elegant claying solution for the DA too.
Pads wise, I can see soft foam sanding and cutting pads that only need a water based lubricant. The cutting is all done by the pad, which is disposable. No pad cleaning required.
Hopefully someone can come up with an elegant claying solution for the DA too.
RaskyR1
Rasky's Auto Detailing
Shiny Lil Detlr said:
I agree with the above 100%!
I don't think many of us would have an issue paying $300-400 for a quality DA with the above attributes.
TOGWT said:
Here you go Jon.
Is a 21mm offset enough?
Rupes LHR 21E Random orbital polisher
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
^^^ Wishes can come true
SVR
Dream Machines
the next ten to fifteen years will be the most exciting with advancements in DA technology, a new type of polishing machine perhaps, adjustable orbit throw, homopolar motors (brushless) to power the machines, more advancement in pad materials and single polish systems that allow 600 to 900 rpm correction on any paint (currently doable with xpert polishes but not on every single paint type just yet especially them ultra hard lambo spiders paint
perhaps 15mm orbit is where flex may go next, at least 10 to 12
perhaps 15mm orbit is where flex may go next, at least 10 to 12
SuperBee364
New member
SVR said:
At SEMA this year, a manufacturer had a light weight, brushless motor DA on display.
SVR
Dream Machines
cool, about time too
Envious Eric
New member
I want a Griots that will last more than a couple months for me.! ive gone through 3 in 6 months now! one lasted 4 months, then one two weeks, then one a month...BUT I LOVE THE POWER UPGRADE OVER THE PCXP.
next to try out is the shurhold and if that thing fails on me, then I dont know what do do next...
next to try out is the shurhold and if that thing fails on me, then I dont know what do do next...
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
toyotaguy said:
G110v2, Eric. I swear by mine.
imported_ww2717
New member
I think that once the Rupes bigf foot in the 110V model makes it here the whole da correction game is going to change. That 21mm through has got a lot of correction power behind it.