what are your thoughts on the future of the DA?

[BigAl3]

Just keep a backup handy for when they die.

that's a good suggestion so if one goes out, it doesn't leave you stranded...

 

[MichaelM]

If you want a powerful and dead reliable DA that will last perhaps look into the Makita BO6040. It isn't cheap and it's bulkier then a PC style machine and you are limited to 6" pads due to the backing plate but the thing rips. Not much of a sales pitch but I'm a fan of mine. I keep some PCXP's around for smaller pad use and waxing but the Makita feels like a locomotive compared to the PC.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I think that once the Rupes bigf foot in the 110V model makes it here the whole da correction game is going to change. That 21mm through has got a lot of correction power behind it.

I think you're right... considering how well the 3/4" orbit of the Dynabrade DA does when it comes to correction, I am betting the Rupes will be even better.

Doesn't have the power that the Griots has. I have every DA on the market for the most part or have owned most of them. You can't really beat the Griots IMO in terms of power and price. Just keep a backup handy for when they die.

Granted it doesn't have quite as much power, but to me the point that you "can't really beat the Griots in terms of.... price" becomes negated when you then turn around and say "Just keep a backup handy for when..." [not if] "...they die."



For a professional I'd say it is always critical to have a backup machine on hand, but I'd rather not constantly anticipate the death of my primary and/or backup tools. I'd rather take the tradeoff of slightly less power for slightly more durability, but that's just me.

 

[imported_ww2717]

I just want to know if most of pro detailers out there are going to be willing to lay out anywhere between $500 to $700 for the Rupes when it hits out shores. I mean is Harry Homeowner that does detailing only on the week going lay out that kind of cash to. Now for me I think that I can never have enough power tools.

 

[Barry Theal]

Ive used both the rupes and I really love the Dynabrade. The Rupes is nice and balanced. A lot light then the Dynabrage on my dewalt. But as far as power and torque. Ill take the New Dewalt and Dynabrade over the Rupes Polisher any day. Im curious to know what the Rupes true potential is. At sema I dodn't have enough time to fully play with it like I wanted to. I know someone in the states here who has the 110 model in there hands. I take his word once he really plays with it.

 

[Kevin Brown]

Once guys lose their fear of large stroke machines for sanding and polishing, they'll realize the true potential of these machines.



For power and speed, Barry is on the cutting edge; he can take that 3/4" (19mm) diameter stroke Dynabrade/DeWalt combo all the way to 3,500 RPM, and zip through defects and peel. Drop the speed, finesse things a bit, and the combo works beautifully for final polishing and waxing. The other plus is that it'll lock into forced rotation mode.

​

As for brushless motors, Mirka uses this technology in their CEROS (Compact Electric Random Orbital Sander).



At 2 pounds, the CEROS is incredibly lightweight for such a capable machine, and tops out at 10,000 RPM. Plus, it is super quiet at 68dB(A). You'd have to run 6-7 CEROS machines at the same time to create the same noise level as a typical random orbital! It also has more random rotation than any other random orbital I've ever used (apples to apples on the speed setting). Obviously, the CEROS was designed for sanding, but I've been testing it with various pads to determine its usefulness as a polisher. Currently, I wouldn't recommend it heartily as a polisher; I do know which polishing discs or pads will work with it without sending it into thermal protection, but the discs are not readily available just yet. When they are... this machine will be hard to beat. Currently,it is available in 3/32", 3/16", and 5/16" diameter strokes. I can see a 3" version and perhaps a 3" rotary in Mirka's future, which would allow you to purchase those machines for use with the transformer.

​

Then, there's the Rupes LHR21E Bigfoot. Many of us have high hopes for this machine (once they're available in 110 volt). This machine is sized about the same as a small rotary, and features a 21mm diameter stroke. There's also a 15mm version available, which may fit your needs a bit better if you work on vehicles featuring loads of curves & abruptly-shaped panels (envision the curved-top front fenders of Porsche 911's through the early 1990's, and how the meet the hood).



The machine's claim to fame is balance, or more specifically, how it feels in your hands during use. With all that throw, there's a huge potential for random rotation of the backing plate. Top speed is 4,200 RPM. Look forward to a thorough write-up of this machine once a select few of us get an A-OK, as there's plenty to talk about regarding this machine.

​

Finally, don't count out what's already available. If you can get a hold of a machine that is small yet has ample power, has optimized gearing and "loose" or ultra-low friction bearings... there's not a lot you can't do! Downside to the random orbital seems to be vibration & noise, right? Well, brushless motors are very quiet, and the Rupes guys seem to have vibration under control (plus, the Cyclo guys have an adjustable weighting system for their 2-head machine).



The typical random orbital has been very inexpensive to purchase, which has been great because it allowed all sorts of guys to give one an honest shot. Now that it's action has proven to be a viable alternative to a rotary, it's time we see a shift towards machines that are more refined, and comfortable to use.

 

[Accumulator]

That pneumatic rotary (the 51392) is intriguing, if kinda pricey...makes the Dynabrade system look a little more appealing :think:

 

[RaskyR1]

Kevin,



A little of topic, but how does that electric Mirka sander compare to their air sanders? I know wet sanding with DA's like the PC/G110/Griots is not ideal because of the amount of torque they have, but I really hate listening to my compressor running. With that said, how would you rate the electric Mirka when it comes to wet sanding?

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Kevin,



A little of topic, but how does that electric Mirka sander compare to their air sanders? I know wet sanding with DA's like the PC/G110/Griots is not ideal because of the amount of torque they have, but I really hate listening to my compressor running. With that said, how would you rate the electric Mirka when it comes to wet sanding?

You could always just do what I did and build a barn to put the compressor in; mine is about 70' away from the garage.

 

[RaskyR1]

You could always just do what I did and build a barn to put the compressor in; mine is about 70' away from the garage.

LOL. Not really an option for me but I did think about building a removable enclosure around it with some sound proofing materials.

 

[Lowejackson]

.......Downside to the random orbital seems to be vibration & noise, right? Well, brushless motors are very quiet, and the Rupes guys seem to have vibration under control (plus, the Cyclo guys have an adjustable weighting system for their 2-head machine).

There seems to be a big push in Europe to decrease noise and in particular vibration for health and safety reasons. The noise and vibration of a DA are the two biggest reasons why I stick with a rotary. I seem to be very sensitive to extended vibrations with my hands becoming numb after a few minutes with a DA but more broadly speaking, hopefully we should start to see more machines with better management of noise and vibration. On a recent thread on a British forum, the vibration issue seemed to be the biggest issue for many people as to why they are not willing to use the DA more often.

 

[SVR]

Kevin - thanks for putting that up, it got my attention that Dynabrade list an M14x2 threaded version as I can now use it here in Australia

Dynabrade australia are terrible, no email or phone numbers listed. may just buy it from the states



I've seen our beloved Barry using it and its friggin awesome and definately the way to go for a rotary lover such as myself

Hmm wonder how the velvet, denim and rayon pads with Xpert 1000 S1 Polish would go for orange peel with that system.



As for large stroke machines, I can see a 26 and 30mm orbit throw being next in line for DA's

I'm somewhat like LoweJackson. the speed that the DA's run in order to correct and the vibration vs the 600 to 800 rpm with xpert and a rotary and

no vibration does put me off of a DA. I've practiced with a Festool Rotex at speed 5 on test panels and taken paint off edges in no time with it



perhaps a new counter weight etc will be used to take away the vibration on future machines

 

[SVR]

Ive used both the rupes and I really love the Dynabrade. The Rupes is nice and balanced. A lot light then the Dynabrage on my dewalt. But as far as power and torque. Ill take the New Dewalt and Dynabrade over the Rupes Polisher any day. Im curious to know what the Rupes true potential is. At sema I dodn't have enough time to fully play with it like I wanted to. I know someone in the states here who has the 110 model in there hands. I take his word once he really plays with it.

these dynabrade 61375 and 61385 heads on my Makita rotary at speed 3 to 6 should be interesting to use once I order them

Our 240 volt system provides more torque and power than 110volt. at any speed, even 600 rpm, turn on a makita, de walt or hitachi rotary with 1200 watts and the body of them rock n rolls to the side like a light car with a powerful v8 engine under the hood

 

[Kevin Brown]

I think that there's a "limit" as to the usefulness of large-orbit machines, at least on a typical automobile. I say this because there are areas on a vehicle where the offset-action of the backing plate limits polishing ability.





For example, if you were using a large stroke machine featuring a 2" diameter stroke, and you wished to polish the top of a front bumper, the upright area where the headlights and grille might normally reside could take quite a bashing. This is especially true if you are like me, and prefer to use similar-diameter backing plates and pads. Without much cushioning, you'd have to be pretty good at judging where the pad is in relation to the edge of the bumper or headlights.





The other thing to consider in areas such as this (or under mirrors, next to window trim, next to trunk mounted spoilers or wings, roof racks, and on and on), is that those areas will not received the same amount of polishing that would be delivered by a short stroke, or non-stroke machine (a rotary).

​

This all being said... I am excited that large-orbit machines are being accepted as a viable alternative to a rotary for heavy cutting as well as final polishing. I wrote an article a while back called The Random Orbital - Machine Stroke - How It Affects Sanding and Polishing Performance prior to this trend gaining steam. In no way am I trying to take credit, but I am happy that my thoughts have turned out to be not too far off the mark.





There is definitely a case to be made for the large-stroke machine. Armed with one, even a novice has a real good shot at safely and thoroughly eliminating sanding marks and heavy defects. Do we all need or want a machine with a 21mm stroke? Perhaps not, but I certainly do! As for the future of D/A polishing...



In my opinion, the best thing to come about would be a machine & pad system that would use a belt-style pad (available in microfiber or foam) that would minutely oscillate while very slowly rotating (user adjustable). To envision it, think of a belt sander. This machine wouldn't have to use a traditional belt layout (two rollers). Instead, it could feature three rollers for compactness or logistics (in a triangle pattern, two rollers on the bottom, one on the top). As the belt moved along, the machine would remove old compound (or slurry), while distributing fresh compound/slurry. The compound/slurry could either adjustable auto feed or be controlled by the user.





For compactness, the machine would require a secondary box to deliver power, as well as to pump in fresh slurry, while vacuuming away spent slurry. If a "pot" or container of slurry was sized properly, the slurry could be used for quite some time before it needed to be exchanged. It's even possible that spent slurry could be pumped into a secondary pot, to be used again, or tossed away.





Think about the finishing capability! Super-clean polish, super clean pad... brushless motor for quietness and compactness, a secondary power supply and pump... hmmm, sort of like the Mirka CEROS. Are you listening MIRKA?!

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

In my opinion, the best thing to come about would be a machine & pad system that would use a belt-style pad (available in microfiber or foam) that would minutely oscillate while very slowly rotating (user adjustable). To envision it, think of a belt sander. This machine wouldn't have to use a traditional belt layout (two rollers). Instead, it could feature three rollers for compactness or logistics (in a triangle pattern, two rollers on the bottom, one on the top). As the belt moved along, the machine would remove old compound (or slurry), while distributing fresh compound/slurry. The compound/slurry could either adjustable auto feed or be controlled by the user.





For compactness, the machine would require a secondary box to deliver power, as well as to pump in fresh slurry, while vacuuming away spent slurry. If a "pot" or container of slurry was sized properly, the slurry could be used for quite some time before it needed to be exchanged. It's even possible that spent slurry could be pumped into a secondary pot, to be used again, or tossed away.

Sounds to me like you're describing a carpet extractor for paint :rofl

 

[imported_ww2717]

Rupes Big Foot setting money aside for purchase of one now.

 

[Scottwax]

I would hope the microfiber pads and polish advancements would lead to more heavy duty and powerful DA polishers.

 

[Accumulator]

I would hope the microfiber pads and polish advancements would lead to more heavy duty and powerful DA polishers.

If that comes to pass, *I* would hope that people are careful about how much clear they take off



I know I'm a broken record/Chicken Little about this, but ten years from now I really do expect to see all kinds of cc failure from overpolishing. It's not all that uncommon in my area already.

 

[Lowejackson]

If that comes to pass, *I* would hope that people are careful about how much clear they take off



I know I'm a broken record/Chicken Little about this, but ten years from now I really do expect to see all kinds of cc failure from overpolishing. It's not all that uncommon in my area already.

Good point, the ability to remove lots of paint quickly and effortlessly will not always be a good thing. Maybe every polisher sold should come with a paint thickness gauge.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Good point, the ability to remove lots of paint quickly and effortlessly will not always be a good thing. Maybe every polisher sold should come with a paint thickness gauge.

I would love to see that; or at the very least I wish the price for PTGs that can read on composite and plastic substrates would come down to a more reasonable level.