Washing Tools

D

Danspeed1

New member
Hello,



I recently detailed my 2005 C6 Corvette. Car came out great. I will post pictures when I have an opportunity. I have been using proline grout sponges from Lowe's Home Improvement for the past couple of years on all the cars I do and for the most part it has worked pretty well. Minor swirls return after 5-7 washes but overall its been an acceptable method of cleaning my vehicles and the vehicles of others. I use a five gallon bucket with a grit guard, Megs Gold Class Soap and about 8 capfulls of ONR even though I am not doing a no rinse wash. The ONR adds a nice slickness to the finish and helps to encapsulate the dirt particles. I like to power wash the vehicles to get the grime off (Prewash and Final Wash). My power washer is not very strong. My question is, have there been any improvements over the last two years in washing tools and/or methods. I read the guide to detailing years ago and I do know the "proper" way to wash a car. What I am asking is, is there anything better than proline grout sponges to use, that will not mar or scratch the paint, cover more area, encapsulate dirt better, and are just generally safer to use on the finish. Same question about the soap. Anything better to use than Megs mixed with ONR?



Dan
 
You've been detailing/caring about cars longer than I have, but anyway . . . if you run some searches here (or at google), you'll find that there are a lot of diverging opinions, even with basic wash tools. Many like lambswool because they release certain kinds of dirt easily, then others will claim that MF is just as good, and then many will say why would you pay anything more than what the completely adequate grout sponge costs. I haven't tried the last, and use lambswool 9 out of 10 washes I'd say. The differences in size and plushness between my two wool mitts are considerable (and I've never seen the enormous and expensive Dodo Wookie's Fist). I own a few MF mitts, and I finally did discard one because it was gray/black on a lot of it. So, in my eyes, there is some truth to the holding of unwanted stuff. JMO and experience.



You say 5 gal bucket, but you really mean two 5 gal buckets? If not, get a second one where all the grit is left behind. The first is cleaner car wash.



I am sure I would enjoy using a foam cannon, and I do not doubt that many neighbors would notice (and hopefully drum up a few jobs). I do have an affordable electric pressure washer, that I've never used on a car, and I assume that the < 2 GPM would not fly with some pros here anyway.



So I use a <$40 Gilmour foan gun. Really dirty means I rinse off, foam, rinse, foam, two bucket. Pretty clean is just one foaming. I am going through way more soap now, but I don't think $30ish a gallon is too much, for how much pre-lubricating it gives me.



You should not be getting swirls after only 5-7 washes, IMO. Something is wrong here. I think a second bucket plus a foam gun/cannon will make you happy.



Regarding wash, I've read through a couple of those threads too here. Again it's really about subjectivity, in regards to however limited or expansive the experience might be. Optimum car wash has superceded Meg's Gold Class for me. I bought it because it was said to foam very well, and I wanted my car to look like Frosty the Snowman. Well, not quite there yet- I'd need a cannon. I particularly remember in one of the threads here that some fine folks put Griot's way up there among the best and favoritest washes. So my interest is perked. If it foams as good or better than Optimum, then I would try that next perhaps. I admit I am a pretty big fan of nearly every Optimum product I've tried (several at least).
 
A few random thoughts:



- I've never been a big fan of sponges. For me they drag across the surface more than anything else. My number one preference is wool. It glides on the surface like a puck on an air hockey table. Nothing else comes close. They are more expensive, have a limited life and are a pain to clean and dry. I do occasionally use MF covered foam, I think that is a good compromise.



- I'm not sold at all on two buckets. Sure they keep the wash water cleaner, but if you clean your wash media in one bucket, the dirt is going to the bottom of your bucket if you have a grit guard. You aren't dipping it in and getting more dirt out, your car is 100x dirtier than your wash water will ever be, so in my book, there is no way wash water is causing the swirling.



- A huge factor in swirling is drying method and media, this never gets enough attention. If you aren't drying with a QD, then you are dragging whatever media all over the surface without any sort of lube. Add the fact that most WW media gets crunchy with age.



I think you should experiment. Split the car in two, use a different media to wash and dry, see what happens.
 
Some sorta-random thoughts from me too:



- Marring coming back after *five to seven washes*?!? I'd be :wall if they came back after 5-7 MONTHS :eek:

- In the absence of a pressure washer, I use a siphon-feed sprayer that hooks up to my air compressor to get the worst of the gritty winter filth off, my version of a pre-wash. But I only do that in the winter and I do let my vehicles get awfully dirty some times (can't tell what color they are!) and that might not be necessary for everybody

- The better (better lubricity, encapsulation) the shampoo I use the less marring I get

- I washed with sponges for years but finally realized I wanted to instill less marring, and yeah...the sponges simply didn't work well for me in this regard no matter what technique I used with them

- That said, IMO it's not so much the wash media as the wash technique

- THAT said, different media lend themselves to different techniques, at least to some extent

- No matter what, I simply have to use a foamgun (output contstantly directed at point of wash medium-to-paint contact) to avoid wash-induced marring. Period

- What works for me is "Dislodge and Flush" where the dirt gets flushed off the panel; if I see much dirt in my rinse bucket (say...after washing a winter-filthy vehicle) then I figure I blew it because this means I was dragging dirty wash media across my paint (all the while until I finally rinsed it out in the rinse bucket) and IMO dirty wash media = marring

- Using the foamgun to provide constant lubrication and flushing, I use a BHB for the initial passes (to get the "big stuff") and then sheepskin or MF mitts (used more aggressively to get the more tenacious roadfilm, which the BHBs are too gentle to get 100%). I might wash a single area four or five times

- I always use mitts this way: I fill them with shampoo mix (either from my wash bucket or the foamgun) and hold them shut at the cuff, then I gently whisk the mitt across the paint while the shampoo seeps out (still spraying with the foamgun). I'll rinse/refill the mitt by the time all the shampoo mix seeps out, maybe sooner if I think it's retained any dirt

- I move my wash media in short, interrupted "jiggling" motions so that the foamgun is more likely to "blast the dirt away" and so that any marring that does happen will be short little scratches, not long, sweeping ones

- I simply *NEVER* move anything across my paint in long sweeping motions for the same reason; if something goes wrong I don't want a six-inch long scratch. Similarly, I usually (OK, not always, I get sloppy :o ) move my wash/dry media in straight lines as straight scratches are less obvious than circular ones (owning to the more limited viewing angle)

- IF (sometimes a big "if"...) I wash perfectly I can dry with plain WWs (no QD) and not get marring, but the QD is good insurance so I use it anyhow
 
In terms of washing technique, I don't think you can get much more thorough than Accumulator's. It's fairly clean here year round and I rarely have to go to such lengths, but when I see the need for ti, I have multiple lambs wool mitts designated for specific sections of the car and wash with his technique, reaching for a fresh mitt once I've completed a section. This is washing under special circumstances where time is no object and technique to avoid marring matters most to me. All I can say is thank God for DI water! My foam gun and CR Spotless are indeed prized possessions!
 
Good comments. When I first stated years ago I used Meguiar's Sheep Skin Mitts to clean the car. Found them to induce a substantial amount of marring on my finish. Grout Sponges have been a huge improvement. It is likely though I was not using a really good quality media and that is why I was winding up with that end result. Today I do not have a foam gun however I make sure my media is saturated with a healthy dose of soap and ONR which provides alot of lubricity.



As for drying. I will usually blow the car dry with compressed air and a leaf blower, however I have been using QD in addition to the water left on the car to dry it. I think this is a good step in the right direction. I just purchased some chemical guys ELITE MICROFIBER SUPER-PLUSH SUPER PREMIUM TOWELS MICRO-BANDED and love them. They really sop up water well and feel soft to the touch. I will try and work some Qd into my drying technique.



DG
 
Yep, compressed air and a blower work very well.



Danspeed1 said:
I just purchased some chemical guys ELITE MICROFIBER SUPER-PLUSH SUPER PREMIUM TOWELS MICRO-BANDED and love them. They really sop up water well and feel soft to the touch. I will try and work some Qd into my drying technique.



DG
Click to expand...
I will keep those in mind once my better WWs start losing their drying action.
 
Danspeed1 said:
Good comments. When I first stated years ago I used Meguiar's Sheep Skin Mitts to clean the car. Found them to induce a substantial amount of marring on my finish. Grout Sponges have been a huge improvement. It is likely though I was not using a really good quality media and that is why I was winding up with that end result. Today I do not have a foam gun however I make sure my media is saturated with a healthy dose of soap and ONR which provides alot of lubricity.
Click to expand...



Some of the Meguiar's Mitts were synthetic, and a member here (forget who it was :confused: ) discoverd that they marred things up something awful.



Hope that ONR approach works for you, I can't get 100% satisfactory results (marring-wise) but hey...there's a reason why I call stuff "Accumulator-proof" ( or *not* ).
 
Accumulator said:
Some of the Meguiar's Mitts were synthetic, and a member here (forget who it was :confused: ) discoverd that they marred things up something awful.



Hope that ONR approach works for you, I can't get 100% satisfactory results (marring-wise) but hey...there's a reason why I call stuff "Accumulator-proof" ( or *not* ).
Click to expand...



Yep, the fake lambswool ones are terrible on soft paint. That and they trap grit and will not release it,even after washing.
 
I even had issues for a while there when I could real sheepskin mitts locally. I was always preaching "pick 'em like fruit" because indeed many sheepskin mitts are gnarly duds and others are so plush. Those $30- $40 super ones sold online seem like they'll pass inspection every time though.
 
So I think its fair to say my first impressions of sheep skin mitts were somewhat incorrect due to the fact that I was clearly using the wrong wash media. I would be willing to give a mitt a try once more if anyone cares to recommend one.



DG
 
I have used so far 3 different media. MF mitt (on early days), Eurow lambswooll mitt and a Carrand 10" sheepskin pad (my current tool of choice).



Between these 3 I prefer the pad, as it has the combined softness of wool with the ease and control of the plastic supporting frame. By design (not sure if it is intentional or not) it also achieves Acc's 'filling the mitt' feature.



Finally, I tend to agree with all Yakky's comments in his first post (on sponges, 2 buckets and drying).
 
I forget where I got my sheepskin mitts (forget where I got my favorite MF ones too..sheesh, I really *am* getting old :o )...but they all came from the "big online vendors" that are well-known here. I generally just buy their most expensive ones and I've never had any problems.



While I never wear them like gloves, I do kind a like the "thumb" feature as it can be handy for getting into tight spots.
 
I've used grout sponges with a 3 gallon bucket with a grit guard (just 1) and haven't had any issues in washing my black GTI in the past 3 years. That said, I rinse with a power washer first and use either DG car wash or 3D Pink in the bucket. The only paint issues I've had are from the kids' cat, grrrrrr!
 
Two bucket method hasn't worked for me loose to many good suds that way ; do use one mitt for bottom of vehicle that is below the beltine dump water then starrt at top with new mitt and suds that way glass does not dry out.
 
Accumulator said:
Some sorta-random thoughts from me too:



- Marring coming back after *five to seven washes*?!? I'd be :wall if they came back after 5-7 MONTHS :eek:

- In the absence of a pressure washer, I use a siphon-feed sprayer that hooks up to my air compressor to get the worst of the gritty winter filth off, my version of a pre-wash. But I only do that in the winter and I do let my vehicles get awfully dirty some times (can't tell what color they are!) and that might not be necessary for everybody

- The better (better lubricity, encapsulation) the shampoo I use the less marring I get

- I washed with sponges for years but finally realized I wanted to instill less marring, and yeah...the sponges simply didn't work well for me in this regard no matter what technique I used with them

- That said, IMO it's not so much the wash media as the wash technique

- THAT said, different media lend themselves to different techniques, at least to some extent

- No matter what, I simply have to use a foamgun (output contstantly directed at point of wash medium-to-paint contact) to avoid wash-induced marring. Period

- What works for me is "Dislodge and Flush" where the dirt gets flushed off the panel; if I see much dirt in my rinse bucket (say...after washing a winter-filthy vehicle) then I figure I blew it because this means I was dragging dirty wash media across my paint (all the while until I finally rinsed it out in the rinse bucket) and IMO dirty wash media = marring

- Using the foamgun to provide constant lubrication and flushing, I use a BHB for the initial passes (to get the "big stuff") and then sheepskin or MF mitts (used more aggressively to get the more tenacious roadfilm, which the BHBs are too gentle to get 100%). I might wash a single area four or five times

- I always use mitts this way: I fill them with shampoo mix (either from my wash bucket or the foamgun) and hold them shut at the cuff, then I gently whisk the mitt across the paint while the shampoo seeps out (still spraying with the foamgun). I'll rinse/refill the mitt by the time all the shampoo mix seeps out, maybe sooner if I think it's retained any dirt

- I move my wash media in short, interrupted "jiggling" motions so that the foamgun is more likely to "blast the dirt away" and so that any marring that does happen will be short little scratches, not long, sweeping ones

- I simply *NEVER* move anything across my paint in long sweeping motions for the same reason; if something goes wrong I don't want a six-inch long scratch. Similarly, I usually (OK, not always, I get sloppy :o ) move my wash/dry media in straight lines as straight scratches are less obvious than circular ones (owning to the more limited viewing angle)

- IF (sometimes a big "if"...) I wash perfectly I can dry with plain WWs (no QD) and not get marring, but the QD is good insurance so I use it anyhow
Click to expand...





so once you rinse the vehicle, you are spraying the QD on each panel as you dry ?



i just detailed the camaro, and am already fearing marring the surface. i have tried 2 bucket method, ONR, foam gun 3x / rinse / blow dry with leaf blower and QD and a regular wash with different kinds of mitts and always wind up with swirls.



i must be doing something wrong. can you use ONR or Megs GC shampoo in the foam gun ?



i tried the foam gun pre-wash rinse with my black truck and it just seems to marr anyways.

are MF WW towels old news ? i have 2 new one waiting and i just feel like i'm lost.



eh, maybe i will just put the car in a bubble.
 
gav'spurplez said:
so once you rinse the vehicle, you are spraying the QD on each panel as you dry ?
Click to expand...



Right, after blowing off most of the water with the AirWand.



i just detailed the camaro, and am already fearing marring the surface. i have tried 2 bucket method, ONR, foam gun 3x / rinse / blow dry with leaf blower and QD and a regular wash with different kinds of mitts and always wind up with swirls.
Click to expand...



Try to figure out what part of the wash/dry is causing the marring. Like...wash in straight lines and see if you get straight-line marring.



I can't help but think that you're doing the usual "drag dirt across the paint" thing as opposed to my "dislodge the dirt and flush it away".



Is there much dirt in your rinse bucket at the end of a wash?



i must be doing something wrong. can you use ONR or Megs GC shampoo in the foam gun ?
Click to expand...



NO...not ONR as it works by a completely different way, where dirt gets "stuck" to the wash medium. That's *NOT* what you want with the foamgun, at least not the way I use it.



Meg's GC is, well...sorta OK I guess but IMO it's not anywhere near Griot's Car Wash/DuraGloss/Optimum (conventional) shampoo.

i tried the foam gun pre-wash rinse with my black truck and it just seems to marr anyways.
Click to expand...



The foamgun prewash does *VERY* little IME. Unless you're using some kind of pressure washer (I use a half-@$$ed substitute that hooks up to my air compressor and siphons shampoo from my wash bucket, but I only use that in the winter) you will simply *have* to affect some kind of mechanical agitation (like with the BHB) to knock the dirt loose.



Using an LSP that sheds dirt readily will help a lot too.



are MF WW towels old news ? i have 2 new one waiting and i just feel like i'm lost.
Click to expand...



Not old news (at least not in a bad way), I use 'em almost all of the time. I'm also using the plush MD drying towels that Tom P. posted about from Walmart, but the jury's still out on those.





eh, maybe i will just put the car in a bubble.
Click to expand...



Heh heh, I know the feeling! But realistically, you're gonna get *some* marring no matter what you do. You know how I'm always ranting against "long sweeping motions", how I say that any looong scratches are a :nono ? Well, guess what... I got one of those on the hood of the beater-Audi! Yep... did it myself :o Gee, I shoulda been gently blotting the surface I guess, but I wiped it and some speck of something was on the paint so I got a shallow scratch. [Stuff] happens in the real world and at some point you just gotta live with it.



BUT...I do think you can tweak what you're doing to end up with less marring than you're getting now.



Are you *always* spraying foamgun output at the point of wash medium-to-paint contact? IMO that's perhaps the most important thing.
 
Considering technique, perhaps using multiple mitts, certain ones designated for certain sections of the car only, may help to reduce/eliminate the wash-induced marring. An investment, yes, but for me, beats the possibility of having to do a bit of re polishing.



I would QD while drying with the MF. Only time I "cheat" is when I only have a few droplets left on relatively "safe" surfaces- like the roof or trunk.



Maybe experiment with other shampoos. Griots is outstanding, so is Duragloss. I don't think ONR would work so well in a foam gun. The last time I used a OTC Megs shampoo, it just wasn't slick enough to my liking.



Oh, and I'm not too far behind on the bubble thing :o I keep my older Cadillac covered and zipped closed ina Car Jacket :D I'd like to upgrade to a Carcoon.
 
Bill D- It's kinda funny how I am with the multiple-mitts thing...I just use two mitts (after the BHBs). While I do keep two "extra nice, nearly new" ones separate for the S8/Jag, I just use two mitts for everything else, with no thought to "sections of the vehicle" or anything like that. Yep...same mitts that clean the rockers of the beater-Tahoe do the hood of the A8!



But again, I'm getting 90-some% of the dirt off with my BHBs before I switch over to the mitts.
 
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