Vintage Side By Side?

It would make an interesting comparison, but the fact of the matter is that side by side photos only tell part of the story. You would really need one side of a car vs another, and using several shots in different lighting situations, as opposed to point blank shots or photos in a dark space.



The real attribute you would want to test is how sharp and how deep reflected images get reproduced, and how transparent and vibrant the colors get rendered. If you can do that in a photo test then that would help lead a debate.



Remember, its wax vs. wax or lsp without any assistence from other lsps, and even for the sake of this test, no quick detailer add-ons.



Also remember that online comparisons won't really be definitive; It can only suggest a stated result based on appearance and the perception of a fair test. The real result happens when the owner pics one over the other in the actual comparison.
 
Imatk said:
That's a fact... because if I had the opportunity to try some of the higher end waxes without having to drop $1,500 on one I would most definitely do that.



AND if I did use Vintage and liked it as much as many of the users here say they do I would have no problem dropping the coin. But I'm not buying something that expensive sight unseen... just can't justify it.



That's why I was hoping to get someone to do a side by side... and see. But I guess that point is moot. But I would really like to have the opportunity to try it out... I don't know if that will ever happen though.
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I think the reason why people have not responded to your original request is that it was a pretty flawed plan. You're really not going to be able to see the difference between one LSP and another in a picture posted on the internet . . . sorry.
 
Very interesting thread. I like superstring’s analogy to high end audio cables, and whether there is a discernable difference between the sound produced by a high end and an inexpensive cable, and whether the price difference is justified. The same analogy could be made with different tubes used in a tube amp or preamp. In the right system with a discerning listener, I think the difference can be unmistakable, but in many systems or to the ears of many listeners, there would be no difference.



Here are two quotes from posts made in the Detailing World site:



“I asked a few of the other guys who are into detailing to guess which panel had the Zymöl Vintage telling them the rest of the car had a 5 month old application of Zaino. Only one out of five guessed correctly and to be honest I don't think I would have been able to tell either.â€� GlynRS2



“Zaino is an excellent product, but I can tell a massive difference between Zaino and Vintage.� Miracle



I think picus is right on the mark in commenting that side by side comparison photos cannot really capture the difference in depth and shimmer and other differences in the dynamic qualities of Vintage and another wax. Slightly different angles and lighting can completely change the captured image. Further, the differences are less apparent looking at smaller areas of the paint. It iwould be fairly easy using photos to make either wax look better.



My experience with waxes is limited to P21S Concours, Pinnacle Souveran, Worlds Best Wax, Victoria Concours Red, Swissvax Concorso, and Zymol Vintage. I have used quite a few sealants, including Zainio Z2. I try to give the car a good prep. My view is that at least on my car Swissvax Concorso and Zymol Vintage, compared to the other waxes I have used as well as Z2, produce more depth and a degree of shimmer and a dynamic look not produced by the other waxes (but not necessarily better gloss). The Vintage also has much better beading, which is easy to document with photos, and with both Swissvax and Vintage (and even more so with the Vintage) if more water is applied the beads roll off the car to a greater degree, and if water is sheeted on the car there is less residual water. However, as Mikeyc points out, Vintage can be a real pain to apply. Is Vintage worth the price? For most people I am sure it is not. For me, it is.
 
Dogged, I like your post. I agree. I have tried all the waxes you have plus about 15 more. I have tried sealants 10+ including Zaino. To "ME" there is a difference esp. in depth of the shine. I like Souveran and Meg. #21... Gloss and the reflective look are similar in a lot of waxes and sealants. Worth the price for a hobby I love, yes it is worth the price.



Dogged said:
Very interesting thread. Is Vintage worth the price? For most people I am sure it is not. For me, it is.
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'I paid $31.70 per oz for Concorso and $81.51 per oz for Vintage, shipped, after applying a 10% off coupon for each. I would need to refill the Vintage tub 2.57 times for it to cost the same as Concorso, but figure around three times including shipping and handling for Vintage refills and the time value of money. Concorso is even more affordable than these numbers suggest, relative to Vintage, because the initial outlay to buy Concorso is much less, since it comes in 6.7648 oz tubs (converting the stated size to ounces) compared with 22 oz for Vintage. Sixty-six ounces is a lot of wax.\r\n\r\nNotwithstanding the above, or maybe because of it, despite its lower cost when I use Concorso I feel like I am using up a precious commodity, and am inhibited to use it too often. On the other hand, the very high initial cost of Vintage, coupled with the refill policy, dispels all my inhibitions about using it up. It actually incentivizes me to use it more often to “get my monies worth.� I like that feeling, and use it more liberally.\r\n\r\nSince comparison photos have been requested, despite all of the reasons they are not really fair representations, I will post a few. These photos are even less fair as comparisons because they were taken at different times, under different lighting conditions, at different angles, and following different preps. Each time, however, I did my best to capture the gloss and depth of the paint. I believe that the only fair way to make a judgment based on a comparison is to use the products yourself, or trust the judgments of those you deem worthy of that trust. \r\n\r\nP21S\r\n
P21S.jpg
\r\n\r\nConcorso\r\n
Concorso.jpg
\r\n\r\nVintage\r\n
Vintage.jpg
'
 
Mikeyc said:
I think the reason why people have not responded to your original request is that it was a pretty flawed plan. You're really not going to be able to see the difference between one LSP and another in a picture posted on the internet . . . sorry.
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I think this has been covered... a couple times?
 
I like Vintage because it is expensive. For "MY" car, the "MOST" expensive wax is "ALWAYS" going to be the best. LMFAO.



*wishing there was a retarded smilie*
 
Imatk said:
I think this has been covered... a couple times?
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With an attitude like that it's no wonder no one was willing to help you out. ;) I don't think your comment was really necessary.
 
Mikeyc said:
With an attitude like that it's no wonder no one was willing to help you out. ;) I don't think your comment was really necessary.
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Umm ok.



Nor was yours that's why I responded with my comment.



Or maybe you didn't bother to read the several other comments in the thread that were identical to yours?



As far as helping me out... well it's not really helping me out anymore than it's helping the rest of the members on this board who are curious if there really IS a difference in appearance with Vintage.



I'm surprised none of the Vintage owners are willing to do a side-by-side.



If I owned a product that I knew to be far superior and I wanted to let others know I would have no problem doing a comparison. And the excuses that it won't look different side by side etc. etc... well those were kind of dealt with in the other thread where the person who applied the stuff didn't notice a difference in person. Neither did many of his friends.



The fact that the other thread on the other board was basically poo-pood and people were asking for "qualifications" doesn't really make much case for the people who claim Vintage is so far superior. It kind of makes them look like they are afraid to admit they spent $1,500 on a wax that isn't vastly superior to Pinnacle or many other waxes/sealants that cost FAR less.



But I wasn't really interested in starting a debate. I was interested to see if there was truly a difference. I think all these debate threads are silly. A side by side wouldn't be a debate. It would be proof and that's what I was interested in--PROOF.



Again I believe this has been covered over and over again.
 
If you would like to come to Toronto to see if you can see a difference I'll put you up for a night. Like I said before, pictures won't show it, too many variables. I see it in person, so do most people I talk to about it.
 
I absolutely love this stuff. Its nice to hear Picus and other testimonials about Vintage's prowess. I agree, it is really something you'd have to see for yourself as opposed to telling you and showing you (although Vintage does show itself well in good digital pics IMO).
 
Imatk said:
Umm ok.



Nor was yours that's why I responded with my comment.



Or maybe you didn't bother to read the several other comments in the thread that were identical to yours?
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Buddy you've lost touch with reality. :rolleyes:



The fact that you responded to my perfectly harmless (although apparently repetitious) post with a malicious and sarcastic comment makes this my last post in this thread. Drop the attitude and maybe people will be more helpful. :goodjob
 
Imatk, Fact: Viewing a picture can not produce the results you want.

Fact: Prep work will help any car's look and the lsp finish.

Fact: As far as I can tell, all The Vintage owners says you have to see it in person.

Fact: Vintage looks better after it has been on the car. (sunlight and warmth helps)

Fact: Vintage is made of the best wax available in a large % compared to others

Etc Etc

I am not going to strip my wax (apx 8 coats) off for a picture.

And again every person has a opinion of what looks best. A guy can like a $25.00 wax over Vintage because what his view of "The perfect look" is. Different products give different looks. But I'll bet you, at a QUALITY car show the winner is not using a $25.00 wax.



It is bad you can't see Vintage in person.



Regards............





Imatk said:
Umm ok.



Nor was yours that's why I responded with my comment.



Or maybe you didn't bother to read the several other comments in the thread that were identical to yours?



As far as helping me out... well it's not really helping me out anymore than it's helping the rest of the members on this board who are curious if there really IS a difference in appearance with Vintage.



I'm surprised none of the Vintage owners are willing to do a side-by-side.



If I owned a product that I knew to be far superior and I wanted to let others know I would have no problem doing a comparison. And the excuses that it won't look different side by side etc. etc... well those were kind of dealt with in the other thread where the person who applied the stuff didn't notice a difference in person. Neither did many of his friends.



The fact that the other thread on the other board was basically poo-pood and people were asking for "qualifications" doesn't really make much case for the people who claim Vintage is so far superior. It kind of makes them look like they are afraid to admit they spent $1,500 on a wax that isn't vastly superior to Pinnacle or many other waxes/sealants that cost FAR less.



But I wasn't really interested in starting a debate. I was interested to see if there was truly a difference. I think all these debate threads are silly. A side by side wouldn't be a debate. It would be proof and that's what I was interested in--PROOF.



Again I believe this has been covered over and over again.
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Mikeyc said:
Buddy you've lost touch with reality. :rolleyes:



The fact that you responded to my perfectly harmless (although apparently repetitious) post with a malicious and sarcastic comment makes this my last post in this thread. Drop the attitude and maybe people will be more helpful. :goodjob
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I don't have an attitude... but I guess you feel it necessary to scold me as if you are superior in some way.



Malicious? Not sure where you got that.



Just because you can't be bothered to read the thread, or maybe you did and you felt YOUR comment would be so much more insightful, isn't my problem.



Maybe you should lose the attitude?
 
MDRX8 said:
Imatk, Fact: Viewing a picture can not produce the results you want.

Fact: Prep work will help any car's look and the lsp finish.

Fact: As far as I can tell, all The Vintage owners says you have to see it in person.

Fact: Vintage looks better after it has been on the car. (sunlight and warmth helps)

Fact: Vintage is made of the best wax available in a large % compared to others

Etc Etc

I am not going to strip my wax (apx 8 coats) off for a picture.

And again every person has a opinion of what looks best. A guy can like a $25.00 wax over Vintage because what his view of "The perfect look" is. Different products give different looks. But I'll bet you, at a QUALITY car show the winner is not using a $25.00 wax.



It is bad you can't see Vintage in person.



Regards............
Click to expand...



It's interesting what you consider fact.
 
Everyone just calm down . . . I think both y'all could do with an attitude readjustment. There's no need for this thread to decay into personal attacks.



Consider this a warning: Continue the sniping, and there will be timeouts (and no Halloween candy!).



Tort
 
First of all I'd like to say that everyone has the right to buy any product they like - when I lift weights I prefer olympic bars but 20kg is 20kg so *** - It's my choice and is made for lots of tiny reasons that probably aren't even consciously processed.



I don't believe that in a true double blind test anyone could reliably tell which wax had been applied to a car - as long as they were all reasonable, maybe tesco's own brand etc for £1 a tub would stand out!



The only way to find out would be to do the test, with a control car with one wax only on it and one car with two waxes on - split half and half but with the boundary between the two unknown. Question at least a hundred people who have experience in the field (i.e. at a meet or show, enthusiasts, professionals and amateurs etc.). How many people do you believe could genuinely tell which wax was where and on which car? Bear in mind that if you only did a standard hood half and half then out of every 100 people asked to identify which side was the more expensive wax one could expect 50 people to be right purely by guessing!



This test would answer the original question in the post but the post seemed to drift to which waxes were nicer to use or preferred for other reasons. I don't believe anyone could tell which wax was used even on their own car and think this would stand up to proper testing but alas, I'm fairly sure this type of test will not come about simply due to logistical problems of getting everyone together.
 
I am 100% positive I could tell the difference between Vintage on my car vs. just about anything else on my car. For better or worse, it has a very distinct look to it. Could I tell on a properly prepped black car? I think I could, but who knows.
 
Wow, bring up an old thread. I still love my Vintage. I have been waiting 9 weeks for my refill to come in. I talked with the CEO of Zymol. He told me they are waiting for the wax to come in. They can only harvest the wax two periods of the year or the tree will die. So I believe I am getting a quality product.



I enjoy detailing my car. I don't regret buying the Vintage. Right now my car is wearing RMG and CMW and it looks great. So just pick a quality product and enjoy your time detailing. There are many good waxes and sealants out there.
 
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