Vintage Side By Side?

Who cares what the average person can or can't see. None of us are average when it comes to looking at paint. I care what I can see, if I didn't I'd just be another run of the mill detailer, and god knows we need less of those. I'm not trying to argue, just making a point. You're right, most of my customers wouldn't know if I put on Vintage, Concorso, Souveran, or P21S; but I will know, and in the end that always comes back to me. I find people that try to continually outdo themselves are the ones that succeed.
 
Nah I'm not touchy. As I said detailing is a hobby so I like a quality product. And I will repeat. I have tried over 25 waxes on "MY CAR" Vintage looks to "ME" as looking the best. And to "ME on MY CAR" I can tell a difference in it and waxes in the $50 range. Pin. Souveran is next in line. THE END MY VINTAGE AND TIGER WOODS HIS GOLF CLUBS !!!!



Adding another coat of the never ending this weekend. Lets call a truce.







never gone said:
Hahaha! Touchy aren't we? I'm not sure asking what people use at car shows has anything to do with what I said. If you were able to read my whole post you would have seen I said at the end, and I shall quote for you......."However if that's where someone thinks their money is well spent, go for it."



Steelth, I'm not saying you're wrong this is just info I've gathered studying different waxes. Here's a couple things from Zymol themselves...



"Number One Grade Carnauba varies from a very pale yellow (white), through a greenish brown (yellow). Carnauba is available in 'Lump', powered or flaked form."



"The color and quality are governed by the age of the leaves and the care used in processing the wax. The leaves are soaked in kerosene or turpentine to soften the wax, resulting in a thick liquid that then is poured into molds and allowed to solidify. In addition to color, the wax is also graded according to area of origin—Parnahyba, Piaui, Ceara, and Bahai. Carnauba 'Lumps' are weighed and coded for sale to processors and refiners."



It's seeming like white carnauba might have more to do with the processing than anything else, kinda like sugar can have different colors depending how it's processed too. I did a google search a while ago to look more into this and couldn't find anything, other than from car wax companies, that stated white carnauba is more rare or tons better than regular carnauba. I'm really not trying to fight or "attack" anyone. I'm simply stating that the regular eye will not see a difference in Vintage or most other higher end waxes if the car is prepped correctly because the eyes can only process so much. However if one feels there is a huge difference or any difference at all that they should spend $1500 on car wax, then go for it. So MDRX8, I hope you can deal with that. :2thumbs:
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+1 I agree with you.



Picus said:
Who cares what the average person can or can't see. None of us are average when it comes to looking at paint. I care what I can see, if I didn't I'd just be another run of the mill detailer, and god knows we need less of those. I'm not trying to argue, just making a point. You're right, most of my customers wouldn't know if I put on Vintage, Concorso, Souveran, or P21S; but I will know, and in the end that always comes back to me. I find people that try to continually outdo themselves are the ones that succeed.
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MDRX8 said:
THE END MY VINTAGE AND TIGER WOODS HIS GOLF CLUBS !!!!
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Vintage is fine for those who want to buy it......I wish everyone had a tub.....:2thumbs:



As far as Tiger.....



He could shoot 5 under with a stock set of $100 clubs from Sears.......



It ain't the fiddle, it's the fiddler.........:xyxthumbs
 
Dave1 said:
It ain't the fiddle, it's the fiddler.........:xyxthumbs
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:werd:



Never a better written and meaningful statement posted here. When it comes to detailing and also the true essence in making a finish "perfect".:woot:
 
Don't know about Tiger with Sears clubs.



Maybe Wal-Mart clubs



Dave1 said:
Vintage is fine for those who want to buy it......I wish everyone had a tub.....:2thumbs:



As far as Tiger.....



He could shoot 5 under with a stock set of $100 clubs from Sears.......



It ain't the fiddle, it's the fiddler.........:xyxthumbs
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MDRX8 said:
He was talking about never gone's post.



So IMATK you read a post where some guy liked ZZZZ over Vintage. What are his credentials? What makes them so special to do a valid test? Did the guy prep the car equally? Did he use the products as directed? That is like me saying Vintage is better than ZZZZ. I said for "ME AND MY CAR" I liked Vintage better. So when you have a product VS product you’re only getting an opinion. I take it with a grain of salt. Use both then you decide what you like better.
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Ok send me some Vintage then I'll decide.



BTW I find it very interesting that all the people here who are getting their panties in a bunch haven't actually responded to the original request which is to do a side by side comparison.



Someone did one... took pictures... and not only that but others related that they TOO could NOT tell the difference between the two. And when they did you say he can't possibly know what he's talking about?



What are his credentials?? He has eyesight. As do I... and others who also responded with the sentiment that they couldn't tell the difference. (Others who saw the car in person)



When someone polishes a car here be it swirl removal or otherwise you CAN absolutely tell a difference... yes even in the pictures. Because generally there ARE side by side comparisons and it's VERY evident which side has been polished, and which side has not.



In my experience so far, the result I see in pictures is the same result I see in person.



It's all in the prep.



Do certain waxes and sealants have different looks? Well yes... VERY slight IMHO. But that's my opinion thus far. I have yet to put a wax or sealant on a car and say, "Wow that's so amazingly different than anything I've ever used before!!"



But I HAVE said that after polishing out a hood or fender. There is no question there is an absolute discernible difference in the part that has just been polished versus the part that has not.
 
these threads always confuse me so much,



wax is subjective, if you say other wise that makes you a fool.



So keep that in mind, some will love this wax some will love others, its wax.



Who care if someone likes it and someone else does not, like everything in like people willnaysay what you buy. Heck I have people tell me I picked the wrong vegtable, or wrong flavor of chips. I was happy so why did it matter what they said.



Also, many people have come to this thread with a preconcived notion of what said wax should or should not do. some have asked if its 10X better then a $180 wax, thats a loade question. Whats better? looks, durability, ablility to clean? Again all subjective.

You dont belive me the ablility to clean is subjective? look at superbees thread on washing wint vintage, there were people telling him hes wrong.



We all need to remeber that wax (like everything is subjective), some will like vintage, some will like gold class. It's ok. Heck I dont like soveran. I dont go around telling people they are idiots for buying it. If it works for them then great, if not then ther are pleanty to choose from.



so this thread comes down to if its worth it or not, well if it is TO YOU, then look into buying it. if its NOT TO YOU, then dont buy it. Its that simple, you dont like it dont use it.





After all ITS JUST WAX
 
I've always said prep is 90% of the end result. I "prep" a lot of cars; and that 10% is still meaningful. Of course polishing is the largest aesthetic difference, I don't think anyone here will debate that; but LSPs do something, and some do it better than others.
 
Picus said:
I've always said prep is 90% of the end result. I "prep" a lot of cars; and that 10% is still meaningful. Of course polishing is the largest aesthetic difference, I don't think anyone here will debate that; but LSPs do something, and some do it better than others.
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Picus,



I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread. What you've said has been spot on IMVHO. Personally, I look at the LSP as a lens which you must look through to see the paint. If you look through a lens at crap you'll see crap and if you look through a crappy lens at something beautiful you'll still see crap. So, IMO you need a quality polishing job and a quality LSP in order to achieve maximum results. As you say, while the LSP only accounts for 10% of the "shine" it's still 10% and it's importance to the overall process should not be ignored.
 
Yeah I totally agree with you guys Picus, and Mikeyc.



I didn't mean to imply that it doesn't add to the look, or enhance it in any way.



But it's a subtle addition from my experience and I've not found vast differences between LSPs. I've used Pinnacle, P21s, Nattys, Jeffs, Zaino, Blackfire, Meguiars and Mothers... at least off the top of my head :)



And while they all have different looks, I doubt seriously that I, or many other people for that matter, could tell just by looking what LSP is used because from what I've found all the quality LSPs are quite good, but none of them have been vastly superior in looks.



Durability is another thing all together, but looks... not so much, at least IMHO.
 
Imatk said:
Yeah I totally agree with you guys Picus, and Mikeyc.



I didn't mean to imply that it doesn't add to the look, or enhance it in any way.



But it's a subtle addition from my experience and I've not found vast differences between LSPs. I've used Pinnacle, P21s, Nattys, Jeffs, Zaino, Blackfire, Meguiars and Mothers... at least off the top of my head :)



And while they all have different looks, I doubt seriously that I, or many other people for that matter, could tell just by looking what LSP is used because from what I've found all the quality LSPs are quite good, but none of them have been vastly superior in looks.



Durability is another thing all together, but looks... not so much, at least IMHO.
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There is no doubt that much of the improvement in a car's appearance comes from the polishing stage of a detail job. After that changing the LSP is a much more subtle difference.



Clearly the general public is less apt to notice such a change. However, to those looking for it; it is a much more dramatic difference.



For the last few months I had stopped using Zymol because it is often difficult to apply/remove. So, I was using first Pinnacle Souveran and then later Pete's 53. Recently I went back to Zymol this time using Concours (I was using Vintage before) and the difference to me in look was striking. I did no polishing in between. I just let the Pete's wear off and then put on the Concours. The difference in appearance to me was night & day though. The depth improved dramatically. It went from looking like a shiny car to looking like a window into another world. The depth is just never ending. Plus, it has a bit more wetness than Pete's and the flake pops out nicely on a sunny day.



I'm sure though to Joe Public there would have been zero difference. In the end, the only way you can decide if you like a product is to try it. It's just a crying shame that Zymol did away with their sampler kit.
 
Agree....Some like a clean reflective look. Some like a deep wet shine. So its all in the EYES of the beholder. SIMPLE



calgarydetail said:
these threads always confuse me so much,



wax is subjective, if you say other wise that makes you a fool.



So keep that in mind, some will love this wax some will love others, its wax.



Who care if someone likes it and someone else does not, like everything in like people willnaysay what you buy. Heck I have people tell me I picked the wrong vegtable, or wrong flavor of chips. I was happy so why did it matter what they said.



Also, many people have come to this thread with a preconcived notion of what said wax should or should not do. some have asked if its 10X better then a $180 wax, thats a loade question. Whats better? looks, durability, ablility to clean? Again all subjective.

You dont belive me the ablility to clean is subjective? look at superbees thread on washing wint vintage, there were people telling him hes wrong.



We all need to remeber that wax (like everything is subjective), some will like vintage, some will like gold class. It's ok. Heck I dont like soveran. I dont go around telling people they are idiots for buying it. If it works for them then great, if not then ther are pleanty to choose from.



so this thread comes down to if its worth it or not, well if it is TO YOU, then look into buying it. if its NOT TO YOU, then dont buy it. Its that simple, you dont like it dont use it.





After all ITS JUST WAX
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Good posts guys. I do agree to some extent a lot of sealants look very similar. There are very few that "stand out" to me; most of them offer good durability and ease of use, and almost all of them look good, but like I said, I never really find myself thinking "wow" when I use them. I hope none of the 'sealant zomg rule4ever' guys bust my balls for this, it's just how I feel. I still use sealants a ton, because of the longevity.



With waxes it's different; perhaps under $100 a lot of the waxes have a similar look. Around $80-$120 they start to really pick up, imo. Souveran, Victoria Wax, Wolds Best, etc all look similar but good. When you get into the EG's and Swissvax stuff you really start to see a distinct difference from one to the other on the same car. Well, I do anyway. Maybe I'm just a blue collar version of a snobby wine drinker though. :)



FWIW, I'd all but stopped using "high end" waxes until about 6 months ago. I was using almost all sealants for years and like I said, I was all about the "prep is the way, LSP means nothing", but as I got more and more back into the EGs, Swissvax etc I've realized again how much difference a good wax can make on a perfectly prepped surface.
 
Mikeyc said:
I'm sure though to Joe Public there would have been zero difference. In the end, the only way you can decide if you like a product is to try it. It's just a crying shame that Zymol did away with their sampler kit.
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That's a fact... because if I had the opportunity to try some of the higher end waxes without having to drop $1,500 on one I would most definitely do that.



AND if I did use Vintage and liked it as much as many of the users here say they do I would have no problem dropping the coin. But I'm not buying something that expensive sight unseen... just can't justify it.



That's why I was hoping to get someone to do a side by side... and see. But I guess that point is moot. But I would really like to have the opportunity to try it out... I don't know if that will ever happen though.
 
MDRX8 said:
No I didn't. Your post was very informative. I always like to read your post.
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I think he was joking, MDRX8, I think.... ;)





This discussion reminds me of high end audio equipment, in particular high end interconnect and speaker cables. The are those who say they make no difference and it's all a scam and there are those who claim to hear "dramatic" differences. Just in case you don't know, you can pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars per metre for cables. As with high end waxes, each cable manufacturer claims to have found that "secret ingredient" that makes their cables the best and therefore worth the exorbitant price. Audio used to be a hobby of mine (still is, but to a lesser degree) and I've auditioned dozens of components, including some very expensive cables, at home, at my leisure and, yes, cables do sound different from each other but, to my ear, not as night and day as some claim. Sometimes the differences are apparent immediately, but usually the differences come to the surface after extended listening in a relaxed environment. So, yeah, they sound different, but you won't find me spending $5000+ on a set of speaker cables. To me the "improvement" isn't worth it. But that's just me.



Same idea with high end car waxes. Some posters have said you can't see the differences in pictures and I believe that. Just like you can't usually tell the difference in high end audio components in the dealer's showroom, it takes a certain "environment" for the differences to really show themselves. You have to see the wax on a car (maybe YOUR car) in person and then maybe stand back and look at it from different angles to see just how it catches the light etc. And, even then, some people can't tell the difference at all.



So, as others have said, while most of us on this board can agree that there are some differences in the look between certain waxes, in certain contexts, some people will always disagree whether that "difference" is good, bad, or indifferent; that's the subjective part. So to each their own and no one can say whether a wax is "worth it" for another person.



Heh, heh, long story, simple conclusion.
 
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