Vintage Side By Side?

I

Imatk

New member
Would any of you folks who have Vintage be willing to do a test with Vintage down one half of your hood and another leading wax or sealant down the other?



I've tried so many waxes and sealants and so far with very slight differences they all look quite similar.



Not exact mind you, but I've come to the conclusion that it really seems to come down to the prep.



Waxes look slightly different than sealants and so on, but enough for me to be able to tell what wax or sealant is what? Not for me at this point.



But if Vintage is truly as amazing as you guys say I would really love to see a side by side down the hood or something comparison between it and another leading product.



Take your pick, Pinnacle, P21s, Zaino, whatever.



I have all three and would be willing to supply test samples if need be.



Basically I want to see if the Vintage REALLY makes a difference in appearance. Enough for me to drop that kind of coin :)



Unless of course someone wants to send me some hehe.
 
As a Vintage owner I don't think you could tell a difference by a photograph. You can take Vintage on one side and Pin. Souveran on the other and a picture would not serve the intended purpose. But in person, looking at different angles their is a definite difference. And it also comes down to your taste. A sealant will give a very reflective look while a good wax will give a deeper look. IMO
 
I understand what you're saying to a degree. It's like taking a photo of the Sistine Chapel. It's never going to give you the same impression as actually being there so I understand that.



But for $1,500 bucks I would hope it would be somewhat different even in a photograph.



Like the before and afters on the site where someone has corrected a panel or just simply polished a panel (no swirls just polish with Menzerna or Optimum or something) you can tell a DEFINITE difference.



So for that kind of dough I would expect you could see SOME difference. So any takers?
 
Imatk, As of now I have about 7 coats of Vintage on my car. I am not about to strip it down and do a side by side. Another factor that comes into play with waxes is the fact that the sunlight and some heating of the wax after it has been applied does wonders to give it that deep wet look. I know this is not what you want, but I can assure you their is a difference in the look of waxes. $1,700.00 worth of difference with unlimited refills, I know most will feel like it is not worth it. But for me it is.





Imatk said:
I understand what you're saying to a degree. It's like taking a photo of the Sistine Chapel. It's never going to give you the same impression as actually being there so I understand that.



But for $1,500 bucks I would hope it would be somewhat different even in a photograph.



Like the before and afters on the site where someone has corrected a panel or just simply polished a panel (no swirls just polish with Menzerna or Optimum or something) you can tell a DEFINITE difference.



So for that kind of dough I would expect you could see SOME difference. So any takers?
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I would bet anything that there is NOT any significant difference with Vintage over any of the other leading brands out there. However the cost has to be justified somehow so our eyes will often see what we want them to see. Look at the ingredients in Vintage, there isn't anything "revolutionary" that should make it stand out from anything else. Brilliant marketing though.
 
MDRX8 said:
Imatk, As of now I have about 7 coats of Vintage on my car. I am not about to strip it down and do a side by side. Another factor that comes into play with waxes is the fact that the sunlight and some heating of the wax after it has been applied does wonders to give it that deep wet look. I know this is not what you want, but I can assure you their is a difference in the look of waxes. $1,700.00 worth of difference with unlimited refills, I know most will feel like it is not worth it. But for me it is.
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That's the thing I don't want or care to get into an opinionated debate. There are PLENTY of those on here and elsewhere.



So if you aren't willing I totally understand, but I was hoping to find someone who is willing.



I'll check out that thread superstring thanks.
 
There is significant differences in waxes. Vintage has 61% white carnauba wax by volume. The quality control in making the wax plays a great role also. I am no expert but I have tried over 25 different waxes. For "MY" opinion Vintage is the best I like on "MY" car. You can put on a coat of Vintage and wait about two hours and it is hard as a brick to remove. So for "MY" opinion and "MY" taste in the looks department Vintage is the winner. I have no desire to argue because everyone has different taste and thats OK. If I had to pick a second wax for "MY" car Pin. Souveran would be it. ZOOM_ZOOM



never gone said:
I would bet anything that there is NOT any significant difference with Vintage over any of the other leading brands out there. However the cost has to be justified somehow so our eyes will often see what we want them to see. Look at the ingredients in Vintage, there isn't anything "revolutionary" that should make it stand out from anything else. Brilliant marketing though.
Click to expand...
 
never gone said:
I would bet anything that there is NOT any significant difference with Vintage over any of the other leading brands out there. However the cost has to be justified somehow so our eyes will often see what we want them to see. Look at the ingredients in Vintage, there isn't anything "revolutionary" that should make it stand out from anything else. Brilliant marketing though.
Click to expand...



Please do not talk when you have no idea what you are talking about the Carnauba content is quite a bit higher than most other waxes on the market and added it is a different type of carnauba to any out there. It is WHITE Carnauba not Ivory and not Yellow. Very Rare and hard to get/find.
 
Steelth said:
Please do not talk when you have no idea what you are talking about the Carnauba content is quite a bit higher than most other waxes on the market and added it is a different type of carnauba to any out there. It is WHITE Carnauba not Ivory and not Yellow. Very Rare and hard to get/find.
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Pleeeasse.......:chill:



The guy asked a legit question and offered up a legit side by side experiment......



Isn't that how other products are sometimes judged around here.....?



I think it's a good idea. In fact, make it a blind study. Wax vs. wax and wax vs. sealants...

Have a few detailers get together on a car that needs some paint correction and after some buffing have someone use unmarked products to finish off the car.....



The other guys could then do a live visual on the results and post their thoughts......



A very good idea Imatk......!
 
Dave1 said:
Pleeeasse.......:chill:



The guy asked a legit question and offered up a legit side by side experiment......



Isn't that how other products are sometimes judged around here.....?



I think it's a good idea. In fact, make it a blind study. Wax vs. wax and wax vs. sealants...

Have a few detailers get together on a car that needs some paint correction and after some buffing have someone use unmarked products to finish off the car.....



The other guys could then do a live visual on the results and post their thoughts......



A very good idea Imatk......!
Click to expand...



Thanks man... yes I didn't have any desire for this to turn into a debate fest as it seems to have started.



Like I said plenty of that elsewhere.



But the link superstring posted satisfied me just fine :)



The guy did a side by side on the hood of his car one side Vintage the other side Zaino.



So anyone feel free to check it out. I did and now have no more doubts... take that for what it's worth ;)
 
Steelth said:
Please do not talk when you have no idea what you are talking about the Carnauba content is quite a bit higher than most other waxes on the market and added it is a different type of carnauba to any out there. It is WHITE Carnauba not Ivory and not Yellow. Very Rare and hard to get/find.
Click to expand...



First of all I have no problem with what anyone decides to purchase or use. If my paint or appearance desires required something like Vintage to meet my standards. I would definitely purchase it.



Steelth. With all due respect, there is no such compounds/substance as "white natural" carnauba. Carnauba has one single structure. Isometric or otherwise. Unlike proteins, you bodybuilders will understand this, carnauba has is no L-form or D-form in which one form (L) is utilized by the body for muscle augmentation. Obviously Zymol "does" produce a good product that stand apart from other waxes besides price or the gig would have been up years ago. They obviously use the "best" refined carnauba available.

Secondly, 61% by volume is not the same as stating Vintage is composed of 61% carnauba. The 61% by volume is just the comparative ratio with other ingredients in the formulation.



With these facts stated, please everyone use what makes your vehicle look the best. Be it a $5 bottle of AW or $1800 jar of Vintage.:2thumbs:
 
Well I can see this is going to go poorly, but let me chime in. Everything I say here will be subjective.



Photos mean nothing. I think we can all agree I take ok photos; and I can say with 100% confidence that they are at best a meager representation of what I am seeing in person. Today was a perfect example, I took some great shots of a silver Porsche C4S I did, however in person it looked much, much, much more dynamic, deep, shimmery...whatever you want to call it. A photo simply can not capture that.



Which leads me to Vintage. Vintage, like most "high end" waxes and some very good sealants, looks better in person than in photos. Why? Because in person you can move your eyes over the car, move around the car, catch it in different light. So why do people use Vintage? Well, it adds a level of detail to the cars finish that is hard to achieve otherwise. It's subtle, but it's there. I mean ask yourself this, unless someone is just plain stupid, why but it if they can achieve results which please them as much with something less expensive? For crying out loud, I do this for a living - if I thought I could use a product that was $25, $100, $250, $500 and get the same results I would, and I'd save a ton of money.



I did a "wax test" on another forum. I tried my best to capture the differences I saw in person in photos, and for the most part I couldn't. Neither could my wife (who say the differences in person too), and she's using a 5D with an L lens and has been doing pro photography for 17 years.
 
Steelth said:
Please do not talk when you have no idea what you are talking about the Carnauba content is quite a bit higher than most other waxes on the market and added it is a different type of carnauba to any out there. It is WHITE Carnauba not Ivory and not Yellow. Very Rare and hard to get/find.
Click to expand...



Well... I actually do know what I'm talking about. True there is a little more involved with processing white carnauba but it's not as "rare" as companies try to make it seem to help up the price. Also, ivory is still considered "white." The quality of carnaubas are based on a grading system as you probably know which is based on the age of the leaves and the care used in processing the wax. The grade it gets also depends on the area the carnauba came from. The best grade is Brazilian No. 1 Carnauba which ALSO includes yellow and not just white. The human eye can only differentiate so much when talking about the shine or depth of a product much like the human nose can only detect so many parts per million/billion unlike a dog or other animals. So if a car is waxed with something containing mostly yellow carnauba and one is waxed with some containing more white, the average person will not be able to tell the difference assuming both cars were prepped correctly. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Vintage isn't a quality product because it for sure is. All I'm saying is the average person is not going to see the difference between a $1500 wax and a $30 wax, that's been shown time and time again. Plus being that it's a carnauba, depending on the weather and wash frequency of course, it's only going to stay on the car for a short period of time. So....quality wax? No doubt. Is it actually worth the price tag? Not a chance. However if that's where someone thinks their money is well spent, go for it.
 
Well from what I have heard from a friend in the Chemical Engineer field I have been told there is WHITE carnauba and Ivory which are indeed two separate Carnaubas. White being alot more expensive and rare.
 
He was talking about never gone's post.



So IMATK you read a post where some guy liked ZZZZ over Vintage. What are his credentials? What makes them so special to do a valid test? Did the guy prep the car equally? Did he use the products as directed? That is like me saying Vintage is better than ZZZZ. I said for "ME AND MY CAR" I liked Vintage better. So when you have a product VS product you’re only getting an opinion. I take it with a grain of salt. Use both then you decide what you like better.







Dave1 said:
Pleeeasse.......:chill:



The guy asked a legit question and offered up a legit side by side experiment......



Isn't that how other products are sometimes judged around here.....?



I think it's a good idea. In fact, make it a blind study. Wax vs. wax and wax vs. sealants...

Have a few detailers get together on a car that needs some paint correction and after some buffing have someone use unmarked products to finish off the car.....



The other guys could then do a live visual on the results and post their thoughts......



A very good idea Imatk......!
Click to expand...
 
It is funny to see what people use at a quality Car Show. So what do they use never gone? You tell me since you know what your talking about. One other thing. For me this is a hobby I enjoy. Vintage was worth the money. Ask Tiger Woods why he doesn't use a cheaper set of golf clubs. TO EACH HIS OWN DEAL WITH IT!!!





never gone said:
Well... I actually do know what I'm talking about. True there is a little more involved with processing white carnauba but it's not as "rare" as companies try to make it seem to help up the price. Also, ivory is still considered "white." The quality of carnaubas are based on a grading system as you probably know which is based on the age of the leaves and the care used in processing the wax. The grade it gets also depends on the area the carnauba came from. The best grade is Brazilian No. 1 Carnauba which ALSO includes yellow and not just white. The human eye can only differentiate so much when talking about the shine or depth of a product much like the human nose can only detect so many parts per million/billion unlike a dog or other animals. So if a car is waxed with something containing mostly yellow carnauba and one is waxed with some containing more white, the average person will not be able to tell the difference assuming both cars were prepped correctly. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Vintage isn't a quality product because it for sure is. All I'm saying is the average person is not going to see the difference between a $1500 wax and a $30 wax, that's been shown time and time again. Plus being that it's a carnauba, depending on the weather and wash frequency of course, it's only going to stay on the car for a short period of time. So....quality wax? No doubt. Is it actually worth the price tag? Not a chance. However if that's where someone thinks their money is well spent, go for it.
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The problem is the entry price to get your foot in the Zymol door to even try the Vintage. I guess it wasn't so bad when they sold the sampler pack that included a small tub of Vintage, but they quit selling that a year or two ago. I guess if they can market an $1800 wax w/o offering the Vintage in a sampler pack they must be selling enough of it not to worry about it. And I say good for them, I want to see as many American businesses succeed and make as much money as possible...... well, I suppose the oil companies could slow down on profits a bit ;) .



I have no problem with guys spending that kind of $$$ for Vintage, and I enjoy reading about how much they love it. I do regret not spending a couple of hundred to get a sampler pack when they were available, but I can't justify $1800 for something I haven't even seen in person. It does have a pretty cool looking container....... kind of puts the gold satin bag my Souveran came in to shame :mad:



The whole white carnauba thing is pretty controversial. Some pretty knowledgeable people in the industry swear there is no such thing and a few say there is. Doesn't really matter if there really is an elusive white carnauba or if it is obtained via processing as long as the wax produces the desired results.



Enjoy whatever products work best for you and don't worry about what the other guys use.
 
Eliot Ness said:
The problem is the entry price to get your foot in the Zymol door to even try the Vintage. I guess it wasn't so bad when they sold the sampler pack that included a small tub of Vintage, but they quit selling that a year or two ago. I guess if they can market an $1800 wax w/o offering the Vintage in a sampler pack they must be selling enough of it not to worry about it. And I say good for them, I want to see as many American businesses succeed and make as much money as possible...... well, I suppose the oil companies could slow down on profits a bit ;) .



I have no problem with guys spending that kind of $$$ for Vintage, and I enjoy reading about how much they love it. I do regret not spending a couple of hundred to get a sampler pack when they were available, but I can't justify $1800 for something I haven't even seen in person. It does have a pretty cool looking container....... kind of puts the gold satin bag my Souveran came in to shame :mad:



The whole white carnauba thing is pretty controversial. Some pretty knowledgeable people in the industry swear there is no such thing and a few say there is. Doesn't really matter if there really is an elusive white carnauba or if it is obtained via processing as long as the wax produces the desired results.



Enjoy whatever products work best for you and don't worry about what the other guys use.
Click to expand...



very well said, thank you for postin that
 
MDRX8 said:
It is funny to see what people use at a quality Car Show. So what do they use never gone? You tell me since you know what your talking about. One other thing. For me this is a hobby I enjoy. Vintage was worth the money. Ask Tiger Woods why he doesn't use a cheaper set of golf clubs. TO EACH HIS OWN DEAL WITH IT!!!
Click to expand...





Hahaha! Touchy aren't we? I'm not sure asking what people use at car shows has anything to do with what I said. If you were able to read my whole post you would have seen I said at the end, and I shall quote for you......."However if that's where someone thinks their money is well spent, go for it."



Steelth, I'm not saying you're wrong this is just info I've gathered studying different waxes. Here's a couple things from Zymol themselves...



"Number One Grade Carnauba varies from a very pale yellow (white), through a greenish brown (yellow). Carnauba is available in 'Lump', powered or flaked form."



"The color and quality are governed by the age of the leaves and the care used in processing the wax. The leaves are soaked in kerosene or turpentine to soften the wax, resulting in a thick liquid that then is poured into molds and allowed to solidify. In addition to color, the wax is also graded according to area of origin—Parnahyba, Piaui, Ceara, and Bahai. Carnauba 'Lumps' are weighed and coded for sale to processors and refiners."



It's seeming like white carnauba might have more to do with the processing than anything else, kinda like sugar can have different colors depending how it's processed too. I did a google search a while ago to look more into this and couldn't find anything, other than from car wax companies, that stated white carnauba is more rare or tons better than regular carnauba. I'm really not trying to fight or "attack" anyone. I'm simply stating that the regular eye will not see a difference in Vintage or most other higher end waxes if the car is prepped correctly because the eyes can only process so much. However if one feels there is a huge difference or any difference at all that they should spend $1500 on car wax, then go for it. So MDRX8, I hope you can deal with that. :2thumbs:
 
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