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djs134 said:
I'm surprised to "hear" that you use the LC Orange with M205. From what I read, I was planning on using the LC White. Seems to be the "go to" pad for 205 in the posts I've read. Would it finish out as well with the Orange? Hmmm.... gonna have to work this out.......



I was planning on M105/Orange, M205/White & M03/Grey
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M205 is the only product in that cut-range that I use with orange pads, as drew.haynes said, that should be followed with M205 on a milder pad.



Note the Griot's orange pads are *so* different....IMO those are pretty much the perfect M205 pad (at least in their ~6" size).



On a softer clear, I'd probably lean towards the Griot's orane or the new LC tangerine instead of a LC orange (with M205).



If you want to try M205 on a finishing pad I'd recommend the new Meguiar's black pad, which is made just for that.
 
Thanks for the info. I was under the impression that the process was more along the lines of M105 and then M205. Two applications and done. Since I already have M80, would I be justified (and rewarded) by a M105/M205/M80 attack?
 
I don't think I would follow 205 with 80... PERSONALLY. I don't see much benefit in that, again, personally. If the paint is soft, try orange/205 first. IF the paint is soft enough and IF the paint is not marred too deeply, you MAY be able to use orange/205 as your FIRST step. If that DOES knock out as much marring as you wish to remove, follow it with 205 on white/green/black (whatever cleans everything up well and ups the clarity). Now, this may not be enough, if the Orange/205 is not aggressive enough (marring too deep, paint too hard, etc), then move up to 105, but if by any chance orange/205 IS enough, ohhhhhhh man will it make your life a lot simpler! :)



To go into more detail about what I was saying in terms of "learning" to use 105... it just flashes fast and easy! If it's really hot out, even more so. Biggest thing, work in SMALL areas! And 105 can gum up your pads a lot also, try to clean them or swap them often.



As far as 95 vs 105 - I have not used 95, but I plan to start playing around with it. 95 is not really older technology... 105/95/205 all use the same non-diminishing technology and all were released about the same time, but for one reason or another, 95 did not get any hype and a lot of people (me included) have never tried it even! I've talked to a lot of people who DO like 95 a lot though, so I plan to try it out. If I get a chance, I'll try to get some varied experience with it and make a write-up of my opinion here on Autopia.



EDIT: Also, as far as 105, 205, two steps, done. Yes and no. Yeah, you could do almost any job with JUST 105 then 205, but if the marring is really terrible that may mean 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+orange, 205+white or some other progression. You have to start aggressive enough to knock out what you are aiming to remove. Every following step needs to be just aggressive enough to clean up the previous, rougher step, while also finishing down finer than the previous step. See what I mean? And then there are people who, shooting for 100% perfection (mostly show cars, non-DD's) will not even stop at 205. You may occasionally see as much as 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+white, Menz PO85RD or Ultrafina + black/blue/red. Getting overwhelmed? Don't worry, based on your first post I can tell you and I are the same type - I too PLUNGE into every new hobby and eventually, you will have more experience than you know what to do with I am sure! :werd:
 
Got ya. Can't say I've heard much about M95 at all. Looked at MOL and found some info that related it to M83/M80, but that was about it. Don't have to worry about heat now, it's a bit chilly here in PA about this time of year. And, I do my work in the garage. I'll definitely try the 205/LC Orange combo first. The Passat is 9 years old and never been buffed... had quite the spider webbing when you really looked. The Altima is an '08 and seems pretty well taken care of (only 8200 mi since July 07). I may be able to get away with a lighter touch....
 
djs134 said:
Got ya. Can't say I've heard much about M95 at all. Looked at MOL and found some info that related it to M83/M80, but that was about it. Don't have to worry about heat now, it's a bit chilly here in PA about this time of year. And, I do my work in the garage. I'll definitely try the 205/LC Orange combo first. The Passat is 9 years old and never been buffed... had quite the spider webbing when you really looked. The Altima is an '08 and seems pretty well taken care of (only 8200 mi since July 07). I may be able to get away with a lighter touch....
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True, not to mention, VW clear is HARD HARD HARD!
 
drew.haynes said:
I don't think I would follow 205 with 80... PERSONALLY....
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Same here, the M205 leaves a slightly higher gloss IME than M80, so it's kinda a step backwards.



I've discussed the M205 vs. M80 with Mike Phillips without really ever getting a rock-solid understanding of why to choose one over the other :confused:



I think I'd just lean towards M205 unless there's a *specific* reason, of which you're quite certain, why M80 would be a better choice.



Why use M80 instead?- Maybe you want better "wetting" of dried out single stage, or better action on oxidation (that's kinda a guess), or it's fresh paint and you want the "fresh paint safe polymers" that M80 leaves behind, or it's a situation where you don't want to deal with the M205 residual-oils issue. Or maybe the "sharp" abrasives in the M205 just don't work well on the paint/surface in question. But I'd have a *reason* in mind, otherwise I'd use M205.
 
drew.haynes said:
.....EDIT: Also, as far as 105, 205, two steps, done. Yes and no. Yeah, you could do almost any job with JUST 105 then 205, but if the marring is really terrible that may mean 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+orange, 205+white or some other progression. You have to start aggressive enough to knock out what you are aiming to remove. Every following step needs to be just aggressive enough to clean up the previous, rougher step, while also finishing down finer than the previous step. See what I mean? And then there are people who, shooting for 100% perfection (mostly show cars, non-DD's) will not even stop at 205. You may occasionally see as much as 105+wool, 105+orange, 205+white, Menz PO85RD or Ultrafina + black/blue/red. Getting overwhelmed? Don't worry, based on your first post I can tell you and I are the same type - I too PLUNGE into every new hobby and eventually, you will have more experience than you know what to do with I am sure! :werd:
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I can relate! I have to keep reminding myself that I'm only dealing with my immediate DDs and not show cars.....



I understand what you are saying about the "aggressive to remove defects and then work my way out of the correction" process. Luckily I don't think that I have a major problem in front of me and shouldn't have to go too deep into the CC to fix what's there. But adjusting out of the correction by product/pad combinations makes perfect sense.



Oh, and btw, I'm having problems locating a direct description of the KBM. Lots of discussions of the nuances and pros/cons as well as talk about the "oils" left by 205, but no direct KBM outline. Help? I'll keep searching. I have a general idea, but would like to be sure.



Thanks again for ALL of the help! Saving me a lot of time and headaches.... costing me $$... but saving me lots of time and headaches....lol....



EDIT: Finally found the info I was looking for about the KBM from Kevin himself on another forum. After reading his description and comments, I think I'll heed his advice and utilize the "traditional" method for a while longer. Nothing attracts disaster like too many variables........ :buffing:
 
djs134 said:
..I think I'll heed his advice and utilize the "traditional" method for a while longer. Nothing attracts disaster like too many variables........
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Just be sure to prime the pads properly.



And remember that the M105/M205 don't break down, they just dry out. Mostly that only matters with the M105- the residue you buff off is *still* abrasive cutting compound, so be gentle; clumps of dried product on your pad can cause *serious* issues, so don't let them develop (keep cleaning the pad).



You might find that what seems to be intuitively obvious isn't all that different from the KBM anyhow ;)
 
Accumulator said:
Just be sure to prime the pads properly.



And remember that the M105/M205 don't break down, they just dry out. Mostly that only matters with the M105- the residue you buff off is *still* abrasive cutting compound, so be gentle; clumps of dried product on your pad can cause *serious* issues, so don't let them develop (keep cleaning the pad).
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Good heads up. Thanks. That actually seems to be good practice regardless weather you are "bearing down" on the pad or not, if only to make sure that the product is evenly distributed over the pad area.......



Accumulator said:
You might find that what seems to be intuitively obvious isn't all that different from the KBM anyhow ;)
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True enough. Found myself applying pressure trying to take out a few RIDS with the M83.
 
With all of the variables in this process, one seems to drive the show and that's hardness of the clear coat on the particular vehicle that you're working on. I learned first hand that the VW has some pretty substantial resistance to the cc. And in searching, I've found several references to the fact that the Nissan cc is "soft". Is there a big range in the amount of hardener used by different companies?



And a related question; so there's a range of aggressiveness (1 through 12 now with Meg's). Has anyone ever run across a comparison of the actual measured abrasion (given all other variables unchanged) between them? (i.e 1 being unmeasurable, 3 removing 0.02 microns, 6 removing 0.04 microns, etc.)



I'm planning on trying a section with M205/LC Orange and if that doesn't cut it (pun intended) then going to M105/LC Orange. But there is quite a difference in the level of cut between 205 and 105 (at least by their respective positions on the chart)



EDIT: And then I run across the thread discussing the viability of an abrasion chart on this very site (with a few of the participants listed as Banned....). It seems I've tread into shark infested waters..... lol.... I understand if this portion is left unanswered or commented on......
 
djs134 said:
With all of the variables in this process, one seems to drive the show and that's hardness of the clear coat on the particular vehicle that you're working on. I learned first hand that the VW has some pretty substantial resistance to the cc. And in searching, I've found several references to the fact that the Nissan cc is "soft". Is there a big range in the amount of hardener used by different companies?



And a related question; so there's a range of aggressiveness (1 through 12 now with Meg's). Has anyone ever run across a comparison of the actual measured abrasion (given all other variables unchanged) between them? (i.e 1 being unmeasurable, 3 removing 0.02 microns, 6 removing 0.04 microns, etc.)



I'm planning on trying a section with M205/LC Orange and if that doesn't cut it (pun intended) then going to M105/LC Orange. But there is quite a difference in the level of cut between 205 and 105 (at least by their respective positions on the chart)



EDIT: And then I run across the thread discussing the viability of an abrasion chart on this very site (with a few of the participants listed as Banned....). It seems I've tread into shark infested waters..... lol.... I understand if this portion is left unanswered or commented on......
Click to expand...



Yes, hardness can vary DRASTICALLY make to make, and model to model or color to color as well! Example: new Jet Black BMWs... so soft I'd almost not even wanna deal with it - actually, nope, wouldn't deal with it. Lol, wouldn't buy one, rather not work on one. But the same Bimmers in other colors, not as soft.



Because of the differences in paint, as well as user variables like "how long did you work the polish", you really can't put a number measurement on how much CC is removed. Also, as far as the Meguiar's chart, don't put too much stock in it. It somewhat gives you a relationship between different products, but beyond that, it doesn't mean ALL that much in practice.



RE: 205/Orange - yesterday did a FAST polishing job on a girlfriend's Grand Cherokee. 205/Orange knocked out 90% of her marring in a single QUICK pass over the whole car and finished down pretty well (at least as far as can be seen on her silver metallic paint). Until I get more time with the vehicle, that has worked well. When I get it again I'll probably hit it with PO85RD/white or 205/white or 205/white + PO85RD black :)
 
Well, I finally got to polish & seal my Altima. As soon as I brought it home, I started searching this site for the best way to keep it shiny and black. Learned a lot from reading, used my Toyota 4Runner as a test, used my wife's DD (Passat) as practice and yesterday I put pad to the Nissan.



Looks great! I thought I could get away with M205/Orange, but ended up using M105/LC Orange with moderate pressure and then a form of KBM with M205/LC Orange. I probably could have hit it with M205/LC White, but I really didn't see a big enough difference between the passes (White vs. Orange) especially since I buffed with very little pressure on the last pass.



I do like the M205! Definitely easy to use, even for a novice. I'd planned on hitting it with M03/LC Grey since it really brought out the paint on the Passat, but I was disappointed in the finish it left on my black paint. Almost seemed like it took the finish back a step... not sure what was going on there.



So now I've got a good coat of OS on it (2 apps about 1/2 hour apart). I plan on putting a couple more apps (1 this am and one more this evening). Even considering using an app of 845 instead of the 3rd app of OS......



Thanks again for all of your help and advice. I'm really happy with the results and look forward to keeping my vehicles looking there best from here on out.....
 
djs134- Glad you got good results. As you found, what works on one car (M03) won't always work the same way on another. For some reason I find this really applies to the Meguiar's Pure Polishes.



drew.haynes- You might be *shocked* at how the PO85RD improves upon the M205 ;)
 
I'm enjoying reading Daniels's posts.. This thread is helping enlighten me quite a bit..



One thing I noted... someone mentioned getting samples of polishes/waxes/etc.. but where exactly can you *find* samples for purchase? I'll be starting out on my own two vehicles and moving on to friends, etc.. before moving on to a clean/detail for $$... and I'd like to be able to try some of the different products out there without having to spend a bunch of money on products that I won't regularly need/use or just can't get the feel of..
 
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