Used Search & read endless threads.....

Ok, so I've been lookin' & readin' & thinkin' & ponderin' and feel I'm a bit closer to picking my starting point.



It seems like the PC is the most popular DA around here, and seems like the new XP is getting raves because its an improvement on an old favorite whereas the Griot's Garage 6" hasn't quite gained the acceptance yet because it is fighting the legacy of the older model. Being new enough to this to not have any preconceptions I think I'll go with the Griot's because:



  1. More power - may not need it now, but have no doubt it will be welcome in the future
  2. More speed - again, may not need it now, but will always grow into
  3. Lifetime Warranty - a pretty biggy
  4. Longer cord hardwired into buffer available



Unfortunately, the packages that the Griot's is bundled with don't seem to be quite as extensive as those with the PC. But then, I can always buy the exact pad I want (i.e. flat in stead of CCS).



Thanks for the suggestion to get samplers. I'm going to get samples of the M205 and pick up some UC. Looking at the Abrasives Chart, I think M105 might be a bit aggressive for the surfaces I'm going to work on. I think I'll also get some samples of the M83 and M80. They seem pretty close on the chart, but they also seem to be a popular combo.



I'm very intrigued with the HD line as well. I might get set up with a little of that as well. But I think I'd like to try my hand at the more tested and established products before I try the HD line if only so I can learn to use the "older technology" and can appreciate the benefit....
 
Daniel,

Welcome to Autopia. I am in Lancaster Area. If you can make it down here some day, I would be more then willing to show you some machines, and basic techniques to help you out. I have tons of products, machines, We can work on your car together and you can learn first hand. I enjoy meeting car crazy guys and would love to help ya anyway I can. No charge either. I really enjoy giving back when I can. Call me if your interested. You can get my number if my website. Anyway good luck on your adventure!

Barry
 
Kevin Brown said:
...His BEST option would be to find a local autopian to help guide him through the process... that would be neat...
Click to expand...



bufferbarry said:
Daniel,

Welcome to Autopia. I am in Lancaster Area. If you can make it down here some day, I would be more then willing to show you some machines, and basic techniques to help you out. I have tons of products, machines, We can work on your car together and you can learn first hand. I enjoy meeting car crazy guys and would love to help ya anyway I can. No charge either. I really enjoy giving back when I can. Call me if your interested. You can get my number if my website. Anyway good luck on your adventure!

Barry
Click to expand...



ONE CLASS ACT. Thanks for the offer, Barry. :bow
 
Thanks Barry! My official work address is in Harrisburg, but strangely enough, I'm hardly ever down that way... lol...



But I think I can work my way down your way, especially if i can get some pointers.... I'll work on my schedule and take this to PM. Thanks for the offer. Look forward to meeting.
 
Sent my order in; got the Griot's 6", some extra pads and a couple of Grit Guards. I'm going to check a couple of places around here for product (M205).



I've searched the threads and even searched Autopia via Google, and can't seem to find anything on suggested lighting for doing this kind of work in my garage. I gather that incandescent lighting is better than florescent, but what about suggested wattage for work lights?



Any problem with 1300-Watt Tripod or 1000-Watt Tripod?
 
bufferbarry said:
Daniel,

Welcome to Autopia. I am in Lancaster Area. If you can make it down here some day, I would be more then willing to show you some machines, and basic techniques to help you out. I have tons of products, machines, We can work on your car together and you can learn first hand. I enjoy meeting car crazy guys and would love to help ya anyway I can. No charge either. I really enjoy giving back when I can. Call me if your interested. You can get my number if my website. Anyway good luck on your adventure!

Barry
Click to expand...



Barry, this is very gratious of you! :2thumbs: :wow: :bow
 
I'm late to this party, having been out of town/offline, but that's probably OK as I might've stirred some stuff up as I consider nondiminishing abrasive products very newbie-friendly, and that includes M105.



And yeah, any chance to learn from buffer barry is a real gift.



djs134 said:
Sent my order in; got the Griot's 6", some extra pads and a couple of Grit Guards. I'm going to check a couple of places around here for product (M205). ..
Click to expand...



Good choice IMO. The Griot's Orange polishing pad works *VERY* well with M205 IME. Good (but still pretty mild) correction, and it finishes out well too. Simple way to go tha oughta yield good results. You can always get more aggressive later (with, say...M105).



Study up on Kevin's technique for using products like M205 and you should do well.

I've searched the threads and even searched Autopia via Google, and can't seem to find anything on suggested lighting for doing this kind of work in my garage. I gather that incandescent lighting is better than florescent, but what about suggested wattage for work lights?
Click to expand...



Much as I bash fluorescents, they *are* good for some inspections, just not light swirls/scratches. It's sorta a case of *every* type of lighting having its pros and cons.



The specs for the two lights at Lowe's read funny IMO (check out the wattages :think: ). But get the brighter one; it'll give you more options and you can position it farther back to get away from its heat. You can always put lower-wattage bulbs in, but you can't always *up* the wattage.



While at Lowe's, look for a cheapie (~$25) incandescent trouble light (the kind with the conical aluminum shade). Try to get a high-wattage one and a clear bulb for it. Use that in an otherwise dark shop for additional/final inspection; it'll be a little different from the halogens. This is my favorite overall inspection light and I have a scad of different lights.



Many here love the Brinkman Dual-Xenon. I don't love mine all that much, but hey...that might just be me. They're pretty affordable and handy to have around.



Note that *any* inspection will go better in an otherwise dark environment, that's a trick that doesn't get much attention.



Oh, and Welcome to Autopia!
 
Accumulator said:
I'm late to this party, having been out of town/offline, but that's probably OK as I might've stirred some stuff up as I consider nondiminishing abrasive products very newbie-friendly, and that includes M105.



And yeah, any chance to learn from buffer barry is a real gift.



Good choice IMO. The Griot's Orange polishing pad works *VERY* well with M205 IME. Good (but still pretty mild) correction, and it finishes out well too. Simple way to go tha oughta yield good results. You can always get more aggressive later (with, say...M105).



Study up on Kevin's technique for using products like M205 and you should do well.





Much as I bash fluorescents, they *are* good for some inspections, just not light swirls/scratches. It's sorta a case of *every* type of lighting having its pros and cons.



The specs for the two lights at Lowe's read funny IMO (check out the wattages :think: ). But get the brighter one; it'll give you more options and you can position it farther back to get away from its heat. You can always put lower-wattage bulbs in, but you can't always *up* the wattage.



While at Lowe's, look for a cheapie (~$25) incandescent trouble light (the kind with the conical aluminum shade). Try to get a high-wattage one and a clear bulb for it. Use that in an otherwise dark shop for additional/final inspection; it'll be a little different from the halogens. This is my favorite overall inspection light and I have a scad of different lights.



Many here love the Brinkman Dual-Xenon. I don't love mine all that much, but hey...that might just be me. They're pretty affordable and handy to have around.



Note that *any* inspection will go better in an otherwise dark environment, that's a trick that doesn't get much attention.



Oh, and Welcome to Autopia!
Click to expand...



Thank you kindly for those nice words!:hifive:
 
I want send out a thanks for all of the help you all have offered :bow. I've searched out some of your posts on other threads and found a wealth of info. For those of you who might be interested in the progress of one of the new guys.....



I received my Griot's Garage 6" and my first couple of product orders (the first of many I have no doubt). I finally found time last weekend to put them to use on the 4Runner.



Washed and Clayed (never did this before and was pretty impressed with the result).



Used the DA to apply Meg's UC to the whole vehicle. I was surprised at how much easier it was than I'd anticipated. I really enjoyed the process and the result. Of course I pulled a few nOOb boners, like not taping off, applying too much product (so THAT's what splatter is!?!) and trying to take on too big of an area at once (really had to work to get some of that off!).



Then I followed up the UC with m83 and M80. Applied a layer of Meg's GC to protect when I was finished. All in all it was fun.



I was sore the next day, washing and waxing 4 cars in 2 days in addition to 3 rounds of polish and a round of wax on the 4Runner certainly worked my back and shoulders.



Looking forward to attacking the wife's DD (Passat) this up coming weekend.



I do have a couple of questions. I've run several searches on this and haven't run across much info (I'm sure it's out there, just haven't found much at all). Once I'm done with the M80, would there be any benefit to making a pass with something like M09 or M03 before I apply OS? Mainly I'm looking to getting a deep wet look before I seal. My searches have mostly produced discussions about M07 which doesn't quite seem like what I'm looking for.



The other question is whether the use of UC was redundant. It didn't seem to be, but then I'm new to this and can't be sure that the M83 wouldn't have taken care of the marks anyhow....
 
djs134 said:
..I finally found time last weekend to put them to use on the 4Runner.. All in all it was fun.
Click to expand...



Glad things turned out well and that you enjoyed the process.



I do have a couple of questions. I've run several searches on this and haven't run across much info (I'm sure it's out there, just haven't found much at all). Once I'm done with the M80, would there be any benefit to making a pass with something like M09 or M03 before I apply OS?
Click to expand...



#80 oughta finish out ready-to-wax (though I don't think it's the last word in final finishes, but that's another matter...).



Generally, I don't think that using #9 via PC/etc. after #80 will yield any significant benefit, at least not in a case like this where you're doing lots of prior correction (the UC and #83). The #9 is *almost* functionally nonabrasive and *IME* doesn't really give much of a burnishing/jeweling effect.



I usually don't see much benefit from #3 (a nonabrasive glaze-like product) on VW/Audi clear (that's in great condition), but others *do*, so I'd try using it on some area and see if *you* derive any benefit from it. I dunno if you'll see much good from it, especially given the stuff that #80 leaves behind, but try it and see. It's just one of those YMMV things.



The other question is whether the use of UC was redundant. It didn't seem to be, but then I'm new to this and can't be sure that the M83 wouldn't have taken care of the marks anyhow....
Click to expand...



The general rule is to use the least abrasive product/process that'll do the job. So if #83 is enough, then you could just do that. But one might also argue that if the UC worked better/faster and finished out well, then maybe the #83 was the redundant step.



I hear UC finishes out better than I woulda expected, and #80 might be a sufficient follow up after it. It's another case of trying different things and seeing what works best for *you*.
 
Thanks Accumulator. I'm probably walking that line the a lot of people new to this walk. I want the finish to look as wet as possible while I still hold down a job, live my life and use the car everyday.



The Passat is a deep blue and seems to have the potential to really shine and may try the M03 on 1/2 of the hood to see if I can see a benefit. "A difference that makes no difference.....". Ultimately, I'm working toward my black 08 Altima Coupe. I'd like to make that "drip" as much as possible (keeping in mind that it is a DD and will likely see about 25k this year alone).



I appreciate the input. I'm all for finding things that work best for me, but would rather take advantage of the experience on the board to avoid completely reinventing the wheel. Think I'll try starting with the #83 this time to see what I can do. The Toyota took a bit more abuse and I'm sure the UP/83 combo did it some good.
 
Great thread for newbs! I need an offer like bufferbarry's except in the Atlanta area! lol Very nice offer! This site keeps impressing me!
 
This whole thread was a really beneficial read. I haven't done a detail in a while (it's been a couple years since I had a car worth detailing haha) and was considering ditching my DA for a rotary and getting the 105/205 combo, but after reading this, I'm gonna clean my old DA pads off and go buy some Megs UC and get to work! :-)
 
Didn't read EVERY comment here, BUT.. I have one question and two comments for you.



Question: What kind of bourbon did you drink in the original post?:hifive:



Comment 1: M205, so easy and pain-free to use.. can't go wrong. It is so slick and workable.



Comment 2: GO SEE BARRY. If I were within 8 hours of someone with his skill set and got that offer, I would be on my way.



My 2 cents..
 
So, rather than start a new thread (Confessions of a nOOb), here's an update for those who are interested. I did finally end up with the Goit's Garage 6"/LC 6.5" pads (assort yellow to blue)/Meg's UC/M83/M80/M03.



I'd thought I'd learned a bit with the Toyota 4Runner that I was selling. I was wrong. After washing/claying/washing the Passat, I saw what looked to me like minor swirling and a few isolated scratches. After a couple of false starts, I ended up using Meg's UC/M83/M80/M03 over the whole car. Took quite a while and I didn't get out everything I thought I should have. Used UC/LC Yellow, M83/LC Orange, M80/LC Orange & M03/LC Blue.



Looks very nice, but not as nice as I'd have liked.



So, here's what I think I learned:



I got a feel for the DA itself. Using the 6.5" pads seemed to be fine since I couldn't really stall it out. But I've got a 5" backing plate and some 5.5" pads on the way anyhow. I think I might have a little better control with them. I also got a feel for the speed and number of passes as well as product control.



I succeeded in my plan to learn with the older products (M83/M80). The M83 wasn't aggressive enough for the correction I was trying to perform (more on that in a second). As far as the diminishing product goes, I clearly see now why the non-diminishing products are popular. It seemed that I had little time at all to work the product on the surface before it broke down. I've placed an order for the M105/M205 combo to use on my Nissan.



For me, the biggest thing that I think I learned was what is meant when the phrases "cutting ability" for pads and "aggressiveness" for products is used. I was more than a little tentative about "jumping in" with M105. It is listed as 12 on the aggressiveness scale and is non-diminishing which means that it is on the top of the scale as well as works as long as you want it to - I imagined seeing polished sheet metal. Sure, I could probably over work the M105, but now I realize that using a LC Yellow or Orange pad and making 4 or 5 passes with diminishing pressure will not remove my whole paint structure. Again, for me this is a breakthrough, being new at this, I was worried about ruining the paint.



And lastly, I learned that the M03 did indeed add to the depth of the shine I achieved. That could very well have been a result of filling in some of the marring that I hadn't removed by using M83 instead of M105, but the difference between the look of the surface after M80 and after M03 were noticeable.



Thanks for all of your help so far and I appreciate all of the recommendations. I keep coming back to Google with "Site:Autopia.org....." when I think of questions. Knowing now what I know about M83, I see why M105 was recommend. But I'm glad that I learned that M83 wasn't aggressive enough rather than that M105 was way too aggressive for my needs. For a material that seems to scratch so easily, it sure seems to take a lot to get the spider webbing out!
 
djs134- Good summary, and IMO things went mighty well for your first try at machine polishing :xyxthumbs



With the M105, I kinda doubt you'll need the yellow pad; orange might suffice esp. in the 5.5" size. And yeah, 6.5" is just too big; 6" might be best with that size plate (but the 5.5" sure won't be bad as long as there's some leeway between the plate and the edge of the pad) and BTW the Griot's orange pad (different from other orange pads) is one of my all-time favorite polishing pads; it works *super* with M205 and M80 too.



Glad to hear the M03 worked out for you after all! It's truly one of those YMMV things IME.



Sounds like you're doing great.
 
I'm surprised to "hear" that you use the LC Orange with M205. From what I read, I was planning on using the LC White. Seems to be the "go to" pad for 205 in the posts I've read. Would it finish out as well with the Orange? Hmmm.... gonna have to work this out.......



I was planning on M105/Orange, M205/White & M03/Grey
 
You are *halfway* on the right track in terms of expectations with 105 and 205. Yes, by non-diminishing, it means that the abrasives are hard and do not break down as you work the polish - the cut remains the same throughout. HOWEVER, the liquids used to lubricate the polish DO still flash/evaporate as you work them. This is where 105 and 205 differ from EACH OTHER dramatically. With 105, the lubricity diminishes RAPIDLY, even if the abrasives themselves are "non-diminishing". You won't be able to just "keep working it". With 205, there is FAR more lubricity and the work time can be quite long if you would like. Meguiars #95 is kind of a middle ground with aggressiveness nearing 105 and lubricity closer to 205. Does that make sense? 105 may be tricky to get comfortable with for a WHILE. 205 - you'll love it first try.



And yes, you can use 205 with orange to get a little more bite - probably a GOOD idea on VW (hard) clear. You could still follow that with a pass of 205/white if you would like - also a decent idea. I wouldn't use an orange pad with MOST light polishes (those with similar aggressiveness to 205), but 205 is so slick it balances out pretty well.



Good luck!
 
Yes, I think I understand what you are saying about M95. And, if I've read it right, M105 is the newer technology of the two and designed to finish out finer. So that makes M95 a bit more like the M83 I was using, but more aggressive like M105.



The next vehicle I plan on attacking is my DD (Black '08 Nissan Altima Coupe). I get the impression that the Nissan CCs are on the softer side. If that is the case, would the LC orange pad still be a good choice with the 205?



You mentioned that the 105 may be tricky to get comfortable with.... my plan is to make around 5 passes or so for each section; letting the product "bite" with firm pressure for a couple passes, ease up to moderate pressure for a pass or two and run a pass with light pressure. Would the comfort level be a matter of working the product quickly enough to finish the section before the lubrication "flashes"?
 
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