imported_gators241987
New member
SuperBee364 said:
I agree, if it aint broke, id never fix it. sounds like it might be time to invest in the pad washers :dance
Used M95 for the first time today...
- Thread starter SuperBee364
- Start date
I agree, if it aint broke, id never fix it. sounds like it might be time to invest in the pad washers :dance
SuperBee364
New member
Mindflux said:
I sure hope you like it, Fluxy. You should have enough to do her entire car. Definitely the very best heavy compound I've ever used.
SuperBee364
New member
Mindflux said:I think Bee gets kickbacks from Lake Country for pushing those things
LOL, the way I gush over them, I bet everyone thinks so. I'm not a shill! I'm not I'm not I'm not! (now where'd that free pad go....).
wannafbody
wannafbody
I've used the 3m 3000 RC with a 4inch sonus yellow pad and got good results by PC-which is rated for 1200 sanding marks too. It can be 2 stepped as well. If M95 is close to the 3m in cut then I think PC usage is possible.
SuperBee364
New member
wannafbody said:
Ohhhh, that sounds like a winner, too. Yet another thing to test. I think my local body shop supply store carries the whole 3M line...
Accumulator
Well-known member
wannafbody said:
I'm gonna take a wild, utterly uneducated guess and say that the M95 sounds a good bit more aggressive than the 3M PI-3000 RC...more like their Extra Cut.
SuperBee364- Having said that, the M95 sounds like a good replacement for the 3M EC. Sounds a *lot* more aggressive than the HT-EC, which never cuts as much as I'd like on jobs where I immediately reach for it.
Oh, and I tried the PFW pads for the first time yesterday- used the 3.5" ones for some spot correction on the Yukon with 1Z Intensive. That's one *VERY* safe, yet effective combo...you're right, the wool runs incredibly cool, let alone at 1Z-friendly speeds. Takes *much* longer to break down the product than the *PC* does with 4" pads and the surface stays much cooler than with the PC/4" too.
Sure wish I'd listened to you guys (regarding the wool pads) *long* ago!
SuperBee364
New member
bwalker25 said:
It does *sound* like it should be a good combo. I'm just hesitant to say for sure because I haven't tried it yet. I have no idea how wool (or even foamed wool), would play on a PC.
I'm kinda hoping that someone with some experience with wool/foamed wool on a PC will chime in here...
SuperBee364
New member
Accumulator said:
I'm sooo glad you liked it Accumulator. I always get so nervous when I gush about how good a product is here. I'm always worried that others will spend their hard earned cash on it, just to have it not work well for them. :nervous2:
Accumulator
Well-known member
SuperBee364- I know exactly what you mean!
I'm utterly convinced that the PFW/rotary is actually *safer* damage-wise than, say the orange 4" cutting/PC! Now it might not finish out as nicely...probably my fault as I gotta tweak the product amount and work time...but any hologramming is easy enough to clear up and at least burning/overworking the paint and tearing up trim/masking tape just won't happen unless you're *really* careless (as in, so much so that I can't imagine it).
Now I still like orange 4" on the *Cyclo*, but I won't be using orange/yellow foam on the rotary any more. The PFW might be OK on the PC with the right product, at least if you don't mind an Accumulator-level (i.e., user-error-style) finish that'll require a follow-up.
Grr...I *still* think both my rotaries are slightly "off" with regard to spindle-wobble :think: and that doesn't *help* with regard to the final finish. (Can't help thinking "it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools"
)
I'm utterly convinced that the PFW/rotary is actually *safer* damage-wise than, say the orange 4" cutting/PC! Now it might not finish out as nicely...probably my fault as I gotta tweak the product amount and work time...but any hologramming is easy enough to clear up and at least burning/overworking the paint and tearing up trim/masking tape just won't happen unless you're *really* careless (as in, so much so that I can't imagine it).
Now I still like orange 4" on the *Cyclo*, but I won't be using orange/yellow foam on the rotary any more. The PFW might be OK on the PC with the right product, at least if you don't mind an Accumulator-level (i.e., user-error-style) finish that'll require a follow-up.
Grr...I *still* think both my rotaries are slightly "off" with regard to spindle-wobble :think: and that doesn't *help* with regard to the final finish. (Can't help thinking "it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools"
)
SuperBee364
New member
Yeah, PFW is so much safer than foam. I think you're correct that it's even safer than 4" orange on a PC. Especially if you keep the RPM at or below 1k. At 1k rpm with a dry PFW and just the weight of the buffer (which is what I try to buff at as far as weight goes), I don't think you would *ever* burn through.
There have been a few reports lately about spindle wobble. Surprisingly, the majority of them have been on the 9227. I can't imagine trying to handle a rotary with a wobbling spindle. Yeesh.
There have been a few reports lately about spindle wobble. Surprisingly, the majority of them have been on the 9227. I can't imagine trying to handle a rotary with a wobbling spindle. Yeesh.
Accumulator
Well-known member
SuperBee364- Yeah...and the wobble is so subtle that a layman (e.g., typical power-tool repair guy) probably won't appreciate the severity of the issue. I first noticed it on the Makita 227 but I *think* I also have it on my Metabo. Seems weird as I sure don't bear down on 'em much and, hey, I really hardly use 'em at *all* compared to so many people!
IMO those are just too big for the PC. Smaller ones (and 3.5" is pretty small) would probably be a different story.
bwalker25 said:
IMO those are just too big for the PC. Smaller ones (and 3.5" is pretty small) would probably be a different story.
Rob Tomlin
Lotus Exige S
SuperBee364 said:
You've made many good/interesting points in your post, so let me address them and ask some follow ups (always appreciate your help Supe).
Yes, M105 was a real PITA. Huge learning curve. I need to decide if it is worth staying with it and trying to perfect how to use it, or whether I should just replace it with M95 (or something else). I don't know that I will have enough cars to work on that will require compounding to enable me to perfect my technique.
Others have said that m95 finishes down pretty much just as good as 105! Is that true? If so, I personally don't see the reason to stay with 105.
Yes, there might be a potential for time savings, but as you say, it sure does not seem that way now! Having to continually stop to add more 105 because of the super short working time, dealing with gumming, cleaning pads etc. it just doesn't seem like a real time saver. I would rather avoid many of those drawbacks in exchange for having to work the compound longer (with 95).
But if the 95 is just as hard on the pads as 105....well that takes away one potential advantage of making the switch.
Re PFW, I can't overstate just how much better it worked than foam! Talk about having your cake and eating it too! It cut better, and finished better than the yellow foam!
After seeing how much better the PFW worked, I am very intrigued by the idea of using the white finishing wool as well. I know many say that foam will finish better than wool, but this is one thing I think I will need to comopare for myself. I just loved the feel of the wool compared to foam.
I doubt that my foam cutting pads will be seeing any more use from me. Thanks for the suggestion on the PFW!
Mindflux said:I think Bee gets kickbacks from Lake Country for pushing those things
The only thing wrong with that allegation is the fact that he just threw away is LC cutting pads!
Accumulator said:
Good to see another expert agree with how much better the PFW is over foam!
I didn't get any holograms with the PFW and SIP.
SuperBee364
New member
Rob Tomlin said:You've made many good/interesting points in your post, so let me address them and ask some follow ups (always appreciate your help Supe).
Yes, M105 was a real PITA. Huge learning curve. I need to decide if it is worth staying with it and trying to perfect how to use it, or whether I should just replace it with M95 (or something else). I don't know that I will have enough cars to work on that will require compounding to enable me to perfect my technique.
Others have said that m95 finishes down pretty much just as good as 105! Is that true? Yes, M95 leaves a beautiful finish as long as you take the time to break it down fully. If you stop too early, it won't leave a very good finish. If so, I personally don't see the reason to stay with 105.
Yes, there might be a potential for time savings, but as you say, it sure does not seem that way now! Having to continually stop to add more 105 because of the super short working time, dealing with gumming, cleaning pads etc. it just doesn't seem like a real time saver. I would rather avoid many of those drawbacks in exchange for having to work the compound longer (with 95).
But if the 95 is just as hard on the pads as 105....well that takes away one potential advantage of making the switch.
Re PFW, I can't overstate just how much better it worked than foam! Talk about having your cake and eating it too! It cut better, and finished better than the yellow foam!
After seeing how much better the PFW worked, I am very intrigued by the idea of using the white finishing wool as well. I know many say that foam will finish better than wool, but this is one thing I think I will need to comopare for myself. I just loved the feel of the wool compared to foam. That's how I feel, Rob. It's just so much easier and safer to use than foam. It used to be that the main advantage foam had over wool was that foam would finish off so much better. PFW (as well as finishing wool) really changed that. PFW finishes off so much better than it's cutting foam counterpart. Edit: The exception to this being M105. M105 finishes off just as well with white LC foam as it does with PFW, whilte providing just about as much cutting power. However, it's easier to use 105 with PFW than white foam.
I doubt that my foam cutting pads will be seeing any more use from me. Thanks for the suggestion on the PFW! Really glad it worked for ya.
I didn't get any holograms with the PFW and SIP. SIP and PFW is still my go-to combination. Good correction with a flawless finish.
This is kind of off topic, but...
I really think that anyone with any experience with a DA could pick up a rotary and use it safely if:
They used 1k rpm max.
They used PFW with MIP (not SIP cause it can be fussy).
They used finishing wool with PO106FF or FPII to finish.
As long as a guy stuck to that formula, I just don't see how anything shy of blatant recklessness would get someone in trouble with a rotary. The MIP wouldn't give much cutting power, and multiple applications would be necessary to achieve much correction, but MIP/PFW is really a *safe* combination. So that's kind of a trade off. There is no trade off on the 106 and white finishing wool, though. It's just a great combo unless you have soft clear, then the FPII would work well.
Accumulator
Well-known member
I also think that the 1Z Intensive is a nice safe product to use with the rotary/wool- low speeds and it'll break down by hand/PC/etc. I ended up using the old trick of setting down the rotary, *NOT* wiping off the product residue, going right over it with the Cyclo (using just a *tiny* bit of new product), and *then* buffing off. Pretty much idiot-proof and I was probably putting that concept to the test
Heh heh, I'm *far* from an expert when it comes to the rotary!
You're doing something a *LOT* better than I did :think: I was using a product that finishes out OK (1Z Intensive) and I got some pretty hideous holograms. Too much product/too little work time probably had a lot to do with it.
Rob Tomlin said:
Heh heh, I'm *far* from an expert when it comes to the rotary!
You're doing something a *LOT* better than I did :think: I was using a product that finishes out OK (1Z Intensive) and I got some pretty hideous holograms. Too much product/too little work time probably had a lot to do with it.
Rob Tomlin
Lotus Exige S
SuperBee364 said:
I agree, and would add that you need to keep the rotary moving a bit faster than the DA, and you still need to be careful around edges (I definitely recommend taping them off....I did).
I wish I had used the PFW more before placing my recent order. I would have added a few white finishing wool pads to the mix!
Yep, Superbee is costing me more money! :doh
SuperBee364
New member
Rob Tomlin said:
My work here is done.