Upselling?

[Jean-Claude]

OG for $250?

As long as you are charging $750+ for One step and OG it pays off, but if you are doing a wash, IPA wipedown and OG for $250, you might as well piss in the wind.

 

[gmblack3]

I wonder who was running this all out hack special on the FT86 forum back in July:

Any interest in putting together a group buy for Opti-coat application?



Cost would be ~$280-330 for the Opti-coat, additional for any paint correction (~$475 total). A small deposit would probably be required.



If we have enough interest, I can get more details.

 

[Jean-Claude]

I wonder who was running this all out hack special on the FT86 forum back in July:

Context? Do you know the details? Options coat or options guard? I told a client I would consider a group buy and that may be my client that you are quoting. But I have not visited that forum and can't say for sure.



Let's presume that is my client and offer for the sake of heading off potential slander. The deal I offered had the largest price break at 15 people for opticoat, not guard. If no one else here would take 15 brand new cars and clients for opticoating at $280 a pop, I will happily....send them to me. But we all know that the majority of those new car owners will want correction too. But I am sure no one here sees the value there.



Brian, please explain, should this be my client, how it is a hack job? You suggested folks applying og at $250 and then knock a group buy on about the smallest car in production and oc installation at $280 for 15 new clients and then call it a hack job.

 

[Jean-Claude]

I am curious about one other thing. Were you genuinely not sure who was running the "hack special", or was that just unprofessional passive aggressiveness? The reason I ask is, not to flame, but to attain a more informed personal opinion of you.



Brian,

I take pride in my work and anyone calling me a hack or saying I do hack work is delusional. I can't read intent or sarcasm from text. But, if by quoting me and saying that you did mean to slander/knock me you know where I stand. If I misinterpreted you and you were genuinely asking, I apologize if I came across as snappy. Because we can't necessarily read motive or sarcasm, I prefer to clear the air by just ask someone if they are attacking me. Though, I am still interested to know the motive in your last post.

 

[Jean-Claude]

For the record, I just got home and checked out what I had offered as a gb to my client and it was $325 for 15+ guys for just og. I would do 15+ for oc as well though. Screw correction + oc/og at $415.



I wouldn't presume to say whoever offered this was a hack though. I believe scott charges $350 for stage 1 + oc.

 

[gmblack3]

IMO if someone is applying OC or OG over non corrected paint because thats what the client wants, its a hack job. I personally won't do it, IMO every car that I work on has my name and reputation on it. JC you preach in this thread how you dont like to upsell as it's "not the right thing to do", but you dont seem to have an issue taking the money from people and providing what I consider low quality work.

 

[David Fermani]

The deal I offered had the largest price break at 15 people for opticoat, not guard.

I've never heard anyone price each product differently. If you're coating a car, why wouldn't you go with the professional version exclusively? Especially when it comes a 40 cc syringe. Just asking, not a big deal.

If no one else here would take 15 brand new cars and clients for opticoating at $280 a pop, I will happily....send them to me. But we all know that the majority of those new car owners will want correction too. But I am sure no one here sees the value there.

Sounds like you're relying on the likelihood that you'll be able to upsell these people on a higher priced service..... (which is a good thing that I certainly see value in!) :eyebrows:

 

[ReflectionsADS]

I totally disagree. Upselling is an important part of doing business and if done professionally can and will be a win-win for everyone. If you don't mention/discuss additional products/services to a client/potential client, you are not only leaving money on the table, but also not doing the client, their vehicle or the detailing industry any justice for that matter.



How many times have we "upsold" an additional paint correction step, a coating, fabric protection, interior or engine detail when all they inquired about was a basic wash & wax? That's upselling and is a very powerful tool when you know how to work it. At the end of the day, are we as business people or order takers? We shouldn't just expect people to review our website and really know/understand what they need. It's our job to give them choices and explain the features/benefits of additional services.

I couldn't agree more. I have been a salesman all my life perhaps upselling comes natural but I never do it in a conniving way that is not beneficial to the customer. Perhaps the cusotmer has no knowledge of a problem or has no experience identifying such problem, doesn't is seem to be beneficial to the customer then? That's just good customer service IMO. Upselling them a recommended service during the inspection is also a great opportunity to provide them with education to identfiy problems in the future that will need to be taken care. This is primarily where my upselling comes from, making the customer aware of a problem that has been overlooked or not addressed and "as a suggestion."

 

[David Fermani]

Exactly Johnathan! As long as what you're doing is done tastefully and professionally it shouldn't come accross negatively. We don't usually have the luxury of having our customers know/realize exactly what they want/need and it's up to us to offer them options, benefits & choices. (i.e.upselling). I'm honestly having a hard time thinking of a business that doesn't use some kind of upselling. Heck, even McDonalds asks if you'd to supersize your order...

 

[Jean-Claude]

Whoa. I never said upselling is not the right thing to do. I said in the classic sense of the word, I do not upsell and then I specifically defined what I do.



It goes without saying that our names are on each car we touch. We ARE our businesses.



If you believe forcing paint correction on otherwise good paint is the only acceptable means to sell and apply opti-x, we will disagree. It would be as easy for the next guy to say that you, Brian, provide a low-quality service if you don't insist on full correction before opti-x, as opposed to your level 1 plus opti-x. Btw, the next guy will say anything short of level 3(or whatever) before opti-x is low-quality. You are entitled to view that anything short of level 1, regardless of the paint's condition, is hack work. That's a slippery slope I don't want to be on, as noted.



Is it a price point that drives the motivation to insist on correction prior to opti-x, or what is really there and requires attention? If it's the paint's condition, how can you suggest that every single car requires a level 1 prior to opti-x? Come on Brian... I love making money and I charge $400+ for the most basic correction, plus opti-x($750+). But I have seen a few cars that did not need correction prior to application and I could not in good conscious insist on them needing something I could not personally justify. I have done no correction, level 1 and level 2 correction prior to opti-x. It's based off what the paint needs and the client wants(up to something harmful or something I won't put my name on). Bottom line, I operate on a premise of educate my client, find out what they want/need, offer a solution and the choice is up to them.

IMO if someone is applying OC or OG over non corrected paint because thats what the client wants, its a hack job. I personally won't do it, IMO every car that I work on has my name and reputation on it. JC you preach in this thread how you dont like to upsell as it's "not the right thing to do", but you dont seem to have an issue taking the money from people and providing what I consider low quality work.

 

[Jean-Claude]

On the first bit...

I offer a personal guarantee on Opti-Coat 2.0 that makes it a specific value to the client and a specific cost to myself. Opti-Guard is different. The price is different. Does that make sense? Good question.



Like Charles said, it's semantics. I know that of 15 new clients, just talking to them to find out their wants("btw, while my car is there, please detail the interior, ect.") and building a good solution will mean more than just opti-x gets provided. Beyond that, you know we don't necessarily have to push anything on clients with new cars, they want everything(generally speaking). It's the nature of new clients and new car owners. On the upselling thing...check out my homepage and wait for the second screen to roll on and read what I tell my clients. It falls in line with my view on upselling. It has been there for over 2 years and won't change. Detailed Designs Auto Spa

I've never heard anyone price each product differently. If you're coating a car, why wouldn't you go with the professional version exclusively? Especially when it comes a 40 cc syringe. Just asking, not a big deal.









Sounds like you're relying on the likelihood that you'll be able to upsell these people on a higher priced service..... (which is a good thing that I certainly see value in!) :eyebrows:

 

[Jean-Claude]

John, I see you're genuinely after helping a client and that's great. But there is a stigma associated with the word upsell. Vernacular is incredibly important, imo. People don't want to be upsold. I just looked up what upselling came up as on urban dictionary. You should check it out Urban Dictionary: upsell (verb) That was the first thing that came up. That's a negative that I don't want to be associated with. And the truth of the matter is, if I am doing what I set out to do, educate my client, I trust they are smart enough to make the right choices. My clients have money and that ability to make money tends to come with some really sharp intellect. **edit**Here's another one http://i.imgur.com/AIDlQ.jpg



About a week ago, a brand new client called me and joked that he wanted to be upsold(after some other chatting). I could tell he wanted to hear how well I could sell at the same time. I told him it wouldn't happen and that after meeting up, he would be well informed enough to make the right choices for himself. He ended up spending $1300 on a f250(originally, he just talked about a lot less but described his woes which had barriers that needed to be crossed if he wanted a good solution). I didn't upsell him crap. Guess what? Next week he is bringing his new Jaguar by for a lot more. It's my opinion that if you educate them, they will spend money. Because it's smart to let me take care of them and they are smart.



In the end, it really comes down to semantics because what I describe is what many who say they upsell claim to do. I don't like that word though and want to keep distanced from it professionally. It's not that I judge anyone else who says they do it.

I couldn't agree more. I have been a salesman all my life perhaps upselling comes natural but I never do it in a conniving way that is not beneficial to the customer. Perhaps the cusotmer has no knowledge of a problem or has no experience identifying such problem, doesn't is seem to be beneficial to the customer then? That's just good customer service IMO. Upselling them a recommended service during the inspection is also a great opportunity to provide them with education to identfiy problems in the future that will need to be taken care. This is primarily where my upselling comes from, making the customer aware of a problem that has been overlooked or not addressed and "as a suggestion."

 

[Nth Degree]

When you go to the doctor for a sinus infection, sore back, etc. the nurse takes your blood pressure. If they tell you your BP is high and suggest a prescription or other action to correct it, is that up-selling? That's really what we do, isn't it? Regardless of what you call it, we all do it. Some more so than others.

 

[Jean-Claude]

No one needs anything when it comes to cosmetics. People who are sick need something. Who can say that a medical doctor telling us we need medication is the same as someone saying a client needs their wheels opti-x'd?

When you go to the doctor for a sinus infection, sore back, etc. the nurse takes your blood pressure. If they tell you your BP is high and suggest a prescription or other action to correct it, is that up-selling? That's really what we do, isn't it? Regardless of what you call it, we all do it. Some more so than others.

 

[Nth Degree]

No one needs anything when it comes to cosmetics. People who are sick need something. Who can say that a medical doctor telling us we need medication is the same as someone saying a client needs their wheels opti-x'd?

Nothing like using semantics to make a point about semantics.



You're right. But nobody has to take medication either. Diet and exercise can work too. The point was that people come to us for one issue, not realizing what else their car might need. That is our opportunity to sell/upsell.

 

[imported_Automania1]

:clap::clap::clap:

Nothing like using semantics to make a point about semantics.



You're right. But nobody has to take medication either. Diet and exercise can work too. The point was that people come to us for one issue, not realizing what else their car might need. That is our opportunity to sell/upsell.

 

[David Fermani]

I find it interesting how there is such a stigma attached to upselling by some of you. Call it and refer to it how you'd like, but at the end of the day it's a textbook case of upselling. How you go about doing it can be a huge factor, but unless you're lighting hoods on fire to prove how great your magical sealant is, I really don't see anything wrong with the term and using it to describe what we do. Or what we should be doing a responsible/professional detailers.



And like a said, upselling is an important tactic (oh, there's another word I bet people are going to get upset about) and is used by every businss out there. Heck, my Dentist tries upselling me on teeth whitening every friggin time I get my teeth cleaned! And my foot Dr tells me how much better my feet will be off if I bought the special shoes he sells in his office that support my feet better. Oh, and my accountant each year when I get together with him top do my taxes and he talks to me about investing some money in certain investments he supports. It's everywhere and used by everyone. Get over the term and start embracing it instead of disputing how what you do is different.

 

[dfoxengr]

David, I think you're right on. Thoughtful/beneficial upselling is good, shady upselling tactics are not though. In the end, make more money for yourself and in good conscious do a real service for the customer. As many said, they don't know about much of anything so use this as an opportunity to use great new products or methods that actually add value.

 

[imported_Quenga]

Everyone up-sells if they do anything but exactly what the client tells them to do. Opti-Coat is 100% an up-sell, unless the customer comes to you and flat out asks for it.





Also, I don't think applying OC on an uncorrected car is a hack job. That would be like saying a wash and wax is a hack job. The customers want the paint protected. A lot of silver cars can be washed, decontaminated and OC'd with absolutely no issue. Now, personally...if they are willing to spend money on OC, they will spend the money on correction.



I find out want my customer wants, I tell them what they need and then up-sell them on something they may not "need", but want. If they want it, they want it, I'm not going to judge them based on my principles.





Thomas, you can always move to San Diego. A local guy here charges $500 for Opti-Guard.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

I charge more than $500 for OG. And staying in Portland. Besides me Shane and now this guy, I don't even think there is another PRO in Portland who is even aware of OC/OG. Of course I am just making this up - how would I have such info?

Everyone up-sells if they do anything but exactly what the client tells them to do. Opti-Coat is 100% an up-sell, unless the customer comes to you and flat out asks for it.





Also, I don't think applying OC on an uncorrected car is a hack job. That would be like saying a wash and wax is a hack job. The customers want the paint protected. A lot of silver cars can be washed, decontaminated and OC'd with absolutely no issue. Now, personally...if they are willing to spend money on OC, they will spend the money on correction.



I find out want my customer wants, I tell them what they need and then up-sell them on something they may not "need", but want. If they want it, they want it, I'm not going to judge them based on my principles.





Thomas, you can always move to San Diego. A local guy here charges $500 for Opti-Guard.